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Northern Star (1837-1852), 27th May 1843, Edition 4 of 6, Page 1, T-* TH^ PRODUCERS OF WEALTH, AND ALL THOSE WHO LITE BY INDUSTRY OX THE LAND.

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    • Ctiarttst 33nt*nt' 2rnc*
    • T-* TH^ PRODUCERS OF WEALTH, AND ALL THOSE WHO LITE BY INDUSTRY OX THE LAND.
    • £utpmaJ ^arltamcnt.
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      Untitled Article

      Mt Fsis- fD ? -When yen learn that I hare been J * ill and confined to the hoa ; c for " three days of ! v = week thai Itave w" 1 ^ 11 nearly a whole book , fitter / or Cleave ' s Circu / ar , attended two pnblic Letm ^ , and bad daily consultation with , our Jkad Mr . Roberts , upon the proceedings to take , £ « on Friday , in the Queen's Bench , you will iTexpect a letter upon the Land , in the present to that the

      Timber . However , I rejoice see subject * forcing itself on the attention of all classes . I jj , r a been reading id the Times of this morning , the speech of Mr . Honghton , recently made at an agriculjjiiil dinner , and from that I learn that the minds of ^ e bis farmers are being turned to the consideration af some m eans by which a market may be opened for jjje emp loyment of labour ; which , if not done , Trill jji up the profits of the big men , in the shape of boot rates . Thus is the monitor now speaking whe « £ ] compel a bearing .

      J trail that the London reporter of the Star will send a good report of my lecture upon the Land , ielirtrcd on Tuesday night , to the most attentive jad enlight ^ ed audience it hag ever been my good fgnune to address . I ihink I msy with trnth say , that my fondest Ejpcc- . ations are more than a hundred-fold realized ; j = I had no reason to expect that men who never see a ereen field , and who only know that meat is found in bcichers' shop 3 , and vegetables in green grocer ?' , would be to anxiously alive to this allimporuni subject ; however so it was . The question fcss taken root , and grow , and flourish , and mature , it assuredly will .

      On Monday , the 12 th of June , I shall have the « rst number of a practical work on small farms ready { is publication . Eich . number will contain fortyp ^ U pages of original matter , with plates , illustratjEEj hn ? of public Vuildings , cottages , and grounds , jaj setting forih tne plan by which I hope to see j Vj project caTied out , price sixpence ; and I have to request tbit timely orders may be sent to Heywood , Old ham-street , Manchester ; Cleave , 1 , Saoe- ]» ne , Fleet-street , London ; aud Hobson , Xpiihern S ; ar Office , Leeds ; as I hare no desire to bive j £ v"i > vrorih of pamphlets left upon my hinds , ^ I hi d of poniaiis , which were ordered but not pjid for .

      j bare strong hope that in my next I may be able to congratulate you upon the successful toariuaoB of the Lancaster trials . 1 the more long for 52 ch a result , as I feel assured that an unfavourable iemination would hare a very prejudicial t& ± a ipon the heahb of Mr . Roberts , who has realiy become a monomaniac upon this , to him , all-absorbng ? nbjec :. Isn ' t " ould Ireland'' doing her work well Kdfi ' t I te ^ Jou & ** when Paddy became in esrnest he would be an awkward customer * Hnrrah for the Repeal ! but not of the Corn lavs . Your faithful servant , FEAEGrS O'COJfNOB .

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      Ctiarttst 33 nt * nt ' 2 rnc *

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      I 0 KDON . —A public lecture was delivered on Tueswy evening , at the City of London Political and Seicffliiie Institut i on , by FeargU 3 O'Connor , Esq . npoD lie land , admission twopence . Shortly previous to eight o'clock , Mr . O'Connor arrived , and pas greeiedwiih loud approbation . Oa the motion of Mr . Cofey , Mr . Shaw was called to the chair , and in an appropriate manner introduced the business of ibe evening . Mr . O'Connor commenced by alhiding to the numbers present , and expressed his sprprise thai so uninteresting a subject a 3 the land should have drawn so many together . The land by the artifices of wilv statesmen and glib philosophers

      hid been artfully shrcaded from the view of working men , yet there was not a single person present who , in the shape of bread , butier , milk , beef , & . c was not interested in : i . The land was the grand source from whence was procured everything they consumed , wore , or lived by ; and what more was accessary to show it in its most fascinating form ? The land was at the bottom of every national question . If it was a question of national taxation , the laid was at the bc-tom : if it was a State Church question , or one of demand and supply , of exporttdon or importation , the land was at the bottom .

      What were all questions of improvement , though tlsaked under titles of enclosure bills , drainage bills , &c but questions of the land ? What was that subject which was now driving sane men mad and mikiag fools laugh—the subject of tte Corn laws , but a question of the land ?—{ Hear , bear . ) Did they suppose that the House of Commons had sat so macy hours oh the previous right to uiscuss a question of Canadian rights ? So such tiing ; it was should corn be grows on Brisai cr American lacd . Cofcbett , that great writer en all questions dear to working men , bad established

      taeiaci that Britain had fonr times more land than was necessary 10 grew food for her population . Vb »; gave power to the army and the navy?—What produced the Income and other taxes I—What supported the Special Commission , by which be aDd oSsenhad been tried s tut the malappropriation of ibe laid ? It was the evil of political power being eathed to the land , which he was anxious to del&Basrite ; deprive the land of its enfranchising caiies . and it would then be brought into the re-Siljarket ; then would the nation btcvme great * 2 £ ipowerful . It might be asserted , because they ws ^ icrroaaded by splendour , and because foreigners

      pa men capital in our funds , that the nation was rich and powerful ; but that only showed the wealth of the few asd the poverty of the many . For a nation to be great , every man must be sombody ; a nan with id seif-respect was like a we-. d in acorn field ; and h 5 j ^ d j , hesitation in asserting that cy miking men individually powerful , by giving tifia the soil of the country , they would be more respected ts a nation , botn at home and abroad , tian they were now , even if thty had not a guinea aiiessiioz : *} coffers . So long as land gave roles , w long would the landlords let it to those whose *« es they could command , and would keep it out « lit retsll icarke :. The moment a man coie-*«« ed labouriEg for ihe benefit of another , that

      &flfflent slavery commenced ; and , when be should * ork for bis own indivjdual benefit , then would tsential frtecom commence . The present E . dminisiacoii . wuh the exception of the DuKe of Buc-^• eaci and a few others , might be rightly termed te Pinper Administration ; they had all sacrificed % i ^ a ci-. a-. es for r ^ irical p ^ wer . A man wbo did not ^• fierr . snd x j . * ques ' . ion might say , if land would " niig item so ni-ch more in the retail market * £ J do tier kef p : i in the wholesale one ? It was ^^ se if Ley cou '; d make five or ten millions more « their c-tatcs ; u the retuil market , they could make 5 ? t CstdrFQ niliioLS by retaining political power . ^ Mr . 0 "C on :. or ^' u-rrated by several examples . Was 3 j ,, , v tla . ^ nurej , a } a nci question I The toiOtr fcfc :. e thoiusBc acrss being bound np in the p ^ a , realized ; : thes , & . c , as a national tax , £ tzi ote t'ousard 2 cr « was divided among

      jwo taadrec and Sr . y small proprietors be beheved l jKii - be a ciScuit maiter for my Lord Wharn-^ oi ary othcr mza to persuade such a rural poi-2 ii ; icrQ thv . they t-n ^ nt to pay for the support of « _ ctarcii oppo ? ec , " perhaps , to their principles , or to a ^ soa who camii ed iheir soals rcce a week . Tbe J ^ Ker -sv a . ; t >? eat : aHy a laud question . What did » s ? j wan ; bu- the power of applying ibeir labour to * = « raw material for their own benefit I and until - \ P ° 5 aon of the raw material of the t 2 VieJ ^ "oa . d never be abl" to compete with *¦? l ^ viitnan manufactHrer . What was the new * ft * tion ihit was now buzzing about the ears of Sir r- * " * £ e { Mr . O'Cvn :: or ) had predicted that the - ^ tnrrican e that passed over Sir Robert would be fstteuang more timna Chartist breeze , that it would

      » h v yt ' ' WonId spnng from his own atmosphere f ci .- IurseQ i& bis o ^ s cradle . He saw the Bucks £ ~^ . ; be saw the Berk ? iEvetin g ; he = aw that C 2 i ? * no ^^^ d 02 Sir Robert to power as the j - ? pu&t wbo could guide tne vessel , the Buck-^ im zzi ihe Biacksioaes , were arrayed against j £ " i fE d posseted more power on the plat-^ it&n Peti on xte rostrum ; the warfare had cocttenced between the agriculturist who * Lo * »' - *? ^ ^ uJg st reet , and the agTieaUiiTist p J ? wniiUcd at the plough . What was the new ^ on or Ireland —( hear , hear , ac-i cheers , ) the eto ? Di & * most industrious men that the sun sflote en ? Djd they demand for tnemseives T _» a or ltrrnrv I "V « . k . t tv . «« PomBn ^ aH thot ea be

      j ^ msboul d allowed to cultivate the soil of ^ - « iTe lmd . The landlord and the parson vrere « aa tit ™^** ' though the former had got fire per fa * IT ° ^ ^ et fle tbonght the parson got s € venty-Cc ' areh ^ - more ti&n he otL K - Wh * t was the tf tee ™ - . Scotland question ! it was not one of gas , for tkld e > or of shadow ; the Church never fought J * oric « i ° ^ ' tbe deTil might go the spiritualities but tan **? grasped tbe subitance . It was naught tk C ^ T " ° ihe land ' What wa £ the RePe * 1 of tht-pv , , LaW 5 ' It was not one of the moon or stars , ^ "saufcse might have an influence on the weather , filer v . -, < l tte 5 ; ion of wheat , and though it 4 d ^ - CiOaked the sub i ect o ? eT and hidden wcilivl a CtS { ' of metaphysics , yet sober-minded thaTeT v" * * ^ 1 : iad P rodQced wheat , and Utejj ^ . - te question of how to get the land ? fcs a ^ v Ject > ke tad thought mnch , acd writ-1 UBCI 1 J ca ; he never could divine why men

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      should remve their sympathy and applause who Kept from them the land—the means of obtaining tflfiir subsistence . He had heard the weeping poor man e friend wailing that his bread should be so r * £ ~ he had heard the dissenting and the big-Deaied parson weeping and sympathizing , and still coining the pcor man ' s sweat into gold ; and wien ne neard and read in the press of their sympathy , was it not natural that the working man should suppose that they only wanted their eyes opened to the true remedy immediately to adopt it ? but the fact was , that the manufacturer equally with the aristocrat was interested in depriving the j > oor man of poli-1 P ° > and of keeping the land in the wholesal e marke : —( loud cries of hear , hear ) . He challenged ail the glib philosophers of the day to overturn

      bis position . With six hours notice he would meet any Oxonian cantab , political economist , or Malthusian philosopher , and prove the correctness of his views on ; he land . That man was entitled to his freedom was allowed by politicians of all parties , but an artificial barrier was placed between him and the natural door by which to acquire that freedom . The manufacturing market was overloaded with labourers . Many of his poor countrymen were compelled by dire necessity to come to the land of the stranger for that sustenance denied to them in the land of their birth , and thereby constituted a reserve for the employers to fail back upon . He would open for them the natural market , tne laud , which would regulate the price of the artificial market ; and all who were tired -of the rattle box—all those mothers whose children where carried to the

      manufacturing cbarnel house—all those fathers wbo by the glimmering of the gases , by the light of the moon , dragged their offspring to unnatural toil—all those men who were tired of living on the labour of their wires and children , would flock to this natural opening for their exertions . He wished not to limit machinery , be proposed that machinery should be man ' s holiday and not his curse . Ho would alleviate their toil not by abolishing isachiaery , but by subjecting it to fair competition with the natural market ; then instead of all the wealth being in the hands of the idle , and want and misery being the portion of the indnstrious , the manufacturers would be compelled to do one of two things , either to close their shops or to give a ^ good a price for labour

      as it would fetch in the natural market . Why they did not do this was because they were afraid of one another . Peel was trying to juggle the anti-Corn Law League , and the League were trying to juggle Peel , and they well knew that both parlies were juggling them . ( An Irishman here asserted that Cob dec was not trying to juggle . ) He would try Cobden by that test , dearer to him as an Irishman than all others . Would Cobden vote for the Repeal of the Union ] When that question was discussed in the House , and spite of the frothy declamation of Peel and Wellington , though they mi ^ ht fill the House fuller than it would hold witn denunciations of Re peal ; yrt they must discus 3 it—( cheers ) . He asked , again , would Cobden vote for it ! The question , ot

      Repeal was entwined with that of the laud ; they were told they had not land enough to f ^ tovr food , but must call in the aid of scientific legislatien . Let them look at Ireland—let the Irish , instead of emigrating frGm the land of their birth , be allowed to remain and cultivate it ; and , after they had supplied their own population with bread , beef , butter , and all the good things of the land , they would have surplus enongh to supply the whole English population . Tke question of Repeal was indeed a question cf the land . Mr . O'Connor then related , in a humourous manner , an anecdote of an Irishman he had met the previous evening , who had lelt his employment , because he thought go much of Repeal ; and , after giving him Is ., asked him to what

      purpose he would apply it ! ** He would send it to tho ' lint' to be sure ; " when Mr . O'Connor gave him acotber for himself . Mr . Cobbett had raid that a quarter of an acre of land would keep a cow all the year , and that its produce would be , with seventeen day 3 labour . £ 57 per annum . Mr . Cobbett , they must recollect , was not a theoretical man ; he boasted that he dug the ground , sowed the seed , and reaped the harvest . Mr . O'Connor then went into the minute details of the land question , and most feelingly described the miseries eadured by the mass of tbe population , and tie comparative paradise the enjoyment of the land would place within their reach . They were told he was not loyal—that he was guilty o . sedition , routs , riots , tumults , rebellion ,

      and the devil knew what beside ; he had been found guilty of doing nothicg . Is ' ow here , he had o ' one nothing , and doae ii wrong—( laughter ) . They would t > e loyai wiien they bad something to be loyal to—when they had something in return for it ; could they be loyal to a riul ^ -box , to a Meam engine , a railroad , a Stock Exchange , or a palace \ there was more loyally i : i sutiag uuder the riven oak where tkeir fathers hid sat ; there was more loyalty in treading the grassy path still fresh with the footsteps of their forefathers , and in milking tbe cow which their cothers had milked ; there was more loyal : ; . - in liviDg in the honse where their fathers had lired and in being bnried in tbe state place ; there was more loyalty in going to the

      parish school , to tbe parish church or chapel—in viewing those beauties of nature , than there was in toiling m a rauie-box or gazing at a tpleiidid review , ; —there was patrioti-m , a higher word than loyalty , in those feelings—v ' nere was love of country . When these times again returned there would be no fear of disaffection . A contented rural population , if threatened with foes or invasion , woaid run with greater alacrity to the eound of their cottage beiDg in danger , than rouse to : the cry of the , church i 3 a tumbling . lie was scarcely j sorry things were come to the present pass , if 1 ont of them the regeneration of his country should spring ; he cculd Fcarce complain of persecu- ' tion , of beiug almost banished from his native land ,

      if out of his struggling , good should arise . He had struggled long and well to attain tbe mighty object of achieving freedom for both nations , and hej thanked God that the day had arrived , when the j English working classes could testify their love for Ireland . —( great cheering ) Their injuries and their resentments were buried in oblivion ; tke party spirit encouraged by their oppressors had yiven way before tbe genercus manliness of their exposition ; all angry thoughts were banished now that his country was , assailed by the common enemy . Mr . O'Connor then ; again reverted to the capabilities of the land , and rid : culed the idea of a superabundant population ; if tbere was not something wrong and perverted in man ' s character , could be wi : h f ^ elir . gs of aught but

      indignation look on the trooper ' s faUed horse aiid vifcw also a starving population ? could be see the splendid equipages of the great with their failed horses tended liko babes , while the children of working m ^ n were deprived of faod ? Why should his countrymen be cent to foreign shores to lav their bones in a forie ^ n &rave , w ' iile the trooper's horse employed for siaui , 'k : er and d ' - ^ mction , vra ? consuming the corn ofiheir fatherland ? Ilewou'd see the throats of every fatted hor-. e , of every do ? , cut ; and of every animal which iired upon man's food ; he would woujO ^ - ; e tne stately forest rooied up and plarted with gr ^ en corn ere he would ^ ivc way to their Malthusian < ioctrinc ? : and then , if Gcd in his mercy aid not sens !

      a EufSctn ; supply of food , he would draw lota with hisfeiiuw men who should go to foreign land ^ in search vi iooo , but umil x ' nen , said Mr . O'Connor , let us hear co more of the ( wailin g advocau-s irf Malthus , and their tricks of trade . Until man was placed upon tbe soil to support himself by his own labour it was idle to talk that the land would not suppor ; the population . Mr . O Connor then alluded ; o the embarrassed state of the Governmuit , and to the stand his countrymen were making f « r Repeal , and concluded by stating that his doctor had advised him not to attend meetings in his present delicate health : but he felt more invigorated

      and refreshed now than when he entered the room , be believed ihev had done him more good than it Le had taken all the drags in a doctor . * wop ; it was the sitting too clospto the uesk and attenains tea * i ireetiD / rs , which had lately icjured hss health . Mr . O'Connor then exemplified the aanv ^ sts oi nm on , by referring to the profits of the meeuog which were devoted to the paying a portion of the debt off the hall , and sat dawn amid great app lause .. Mr . Parkes moved , and Mr . R » iUon seconded a tow of thanks to Mr / O'Connor , winch ^/^^ fe ^^^ - Mr . O'CoEEor briefly replied . Mr . « £ «««¦ moven , aud Mr . Wales seconded a vote of thank * to . ne chairman , and the meeting adjourned .

      ssw-gsSrSLstt coDjegoenee of tie B » J 0 "'? ™ £ „ , ^^ onjciioru taTt oj Ml londo » . •^ £ X JS " 3 . e ito ° * ~ S r «^ ssa ass as ^^ -a ^ ia sri ? z aisitoSS * »»¦ ****** «* £ 5 * z "I , , T , Thnrm was of opinion teat tne m-es-SgtoS hdd ^ nTe ^ dayf it would * n * as a

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      preparatory conference . Mr . Mills moved as an amendment that it be deferred a fortnight ; the amoudment was not seconded and tbe original motion was carried without a dissentient . The Council then adjourned for one month . The Metropolitan Delegate Meeting waa held on Sunday , Mr . Kn : ght in the chair . 2 * . 6 d . waa received from Clockhouso and Is . Cd . frcm Bodmsbury . The meeting then adjourned to make room for the General Council .

      POLITICAL AJiD SCIENTIFIC INSTITUTION , Tf HNag ' ain-Lane—Mr . Parkes preached here on Sunday morning , and waa much applauded . On Sunday eveniDg , Mr . Parkea addressed a large audience on tne fate of Frost and other political martyrs , and was listened to with great attention . Mr . Brown occupied the chair . Messrs . Me * . Brown , Spun-, Benbow , Muutz , Cowan , and Rathbone , t ^ uk par t iu a ( liseiuaion whict ; ensued . A collection was Miade at the close . SOT 3 TH SHIELDS . —Mr . Bt-esley lectured here on Tuesday evening , at Mr . D ^ ler . ' d , Scatbro' Spa , on tbe

      land question . After tbe lecture tbe following resolution , proposed by Wm . Gilfillan , seconded by Thomas Routledge , and ably supported by Mr . Samuel Kydd , bookseller , was unanimously agreed to : —" That it ia tbe opinion of this meeting that tbe letters of Feargus O'Connor , Esq ., on tbe land , and tbe lectures of Mr . Beesley , on tbe same subject , are well worthy of the Berious attention of the people of this country , as the best means of obtaining the People ' s Charter ; also the surest method of securing their permanent happiness when that great measure becomes the law of the land . "

      TEOVILL , Somersetshire . —A Mr . Brown , a Corn Law Repealer , lectured here on the Corn Laws , a few days ago . He wat * opposed by Mr . C . Maunder , who sought to obtain from him a distinct avowal that the repeal of the Corn Laws , under existing circumstance ? , would benefit the people . The lecturer , however , fought shy , and left the town without effecting the object for which he came . The " lads ' - " taught him a lesson , and convinced him that ha could not havo all his own way .

      ARNOLD , near Nottingham . — Tn our last paper we gave an account of tho proceedings consequent upon the election of a person to tho office of poorrate collector . We have now to state that the poll , which had been demanded by the Whigs , took place on Monday last , when the Chartists rallied in all their strength , and by a determined effort placed their man at the head of tbe poll , tho numbers being —For Mr . Mellow , Chartist , ± 2 G : for Mr . Thomas , the Churchman , 203 ; majority , 2 '> . The announcement was received with tremendous cheering . BURY . —On Sunday trvo sermons were preached by Mr . Hill , in the Garden-street Room , on behalf of the funns of the Sunday school connected therewith . The congregations were numerous and attentive . Th 6 collections amounted to £ l 4 ? . 5 d .

      ROCHDALE . —On Tuesday evening Mr . Hill lectured in the Theatre to a full house . After the lecture be called the attention of the audience to the condition of poor Cooper and Richards in Stafford hell hole . A committee was appointed to draw up a petition forthwith and to send it to Mr . Crawford for presentation . Both there and at Bolton a number of the new Chartist Hymn Book- ? were bought by the people ; the trade profit upon which Mr . H . gives tothedefende fund , in the name of the respective towns .

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      HOUSE OF COMMONS—Friday , May 19 . Several notices of motion were given and questions asked . After which Lord Stanley brought forward his resolutions relating to the importation of Canadian wheat and whm iioar . The Noble Lord moved that , in lieu of the duties now pajable upon wheat and wheat flcur imported into the United Kingdom from C&uada , tbe duty for every quarter of wheat should be Is ., and for every barrel of wheat , meal , or flour , being 19 ti pounds , a duty equal in amount to the duty payable on 38 i gallons of wheat .

      Mr . Labocchere opposed the motion , aud moved S 3 an amendment , an address to the Crown to withhold the Royal Assent from , the Bill passed by the Canadian Legislature . Mr . Thornlly seconded the amendment . A debate ensued , in the course of which several members ^ uve utterance to their sentiments , and at midnight , the debate waa adjourned until Monday .

      MONDAY , May 22 . In answer to a question from Sir Andrew Leith Hat , relative to the Secession from the Scotch Church , Sir Jamls Graham paid that ninety-three endowed Ministers of the Established Church had seceded , a great number of lay members , and an additional number of quoad sacra ministers had also gone with them , and that her Majesty ' s Government would watch tho proceedings of the General Assembly with regard to any measure that legally constituted body might adopt . The debate on tho Canadian Corn question was then resumed and carried with some spirit . On a division , miDisfers bad a majority of 188 , the numbers being , for Lord Stanley's proposition , 344 ; for the amendment , 156 .

      TUESDAY , May 23 . A great number of petitions on 7 arious questions were presented . Mr . Haw . es brought on his motion , for an address to the Q'letn on the snbject of Danish Claims . The motion was withdrawn on a point of form .

      KNUTSF 0 RD GAOL . Mr . T . DU . VCOMBE said that . in rising to call tbe attention of the House to the motion of which he had given notice , he might be allowed to explain how one so totally unconnteted with thi Counly of Chester , came to be mixed up in a question apparently of a local character . When , on the 22 ad of February , he rose to call tbe attention of tbe House to tbe conduct of the Lord Chief Biron ( Lord Abinger ) , at the Bpecial commission , held iast October , wbiie he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) found fault with some uf the sentences passed by that Noble a :. d Learned Lord , he said that the severity of those etntences was much aggravated by the severity with which the prisoners were treated in the

      gaol of Knutsford . On the flowing day the Honourable Member for Cheshire a ^ ked why he ( Mr . T . Duncorobei had not jjiven him notice of his intention to allude to tbe discipline enforced at Kuutsford , and at the Bame time Baid that be uMr . T . Duncinibe ) had been altogether misinformed on the subject . He immediately WTOte to his informant to tay that his statements weru likely to be disputed . The statements which he ( Mr . T . Dancombf ) had made relative to the treatment of the prisoners at Knutsford , amoun ' ed to this ; that the Chartist prisoners complained that on their arrival at the prison , they had been uildiessed in v * ry violent and insolent language by the gaoler ; secondly , that some of those prisoners were put upon the treE'linill out of their turn for the amustiaent of some Isilies and gentlemen who visited the prison : thirdly , tbnt the overseer of

      those prisoners wrw hirnslf a feioD , and that these pns : nerswtre thus compelled to associate with afdlon ; and fourthly , that their food was r . jufficient both iu quantity aud quality . Ou the following Monday , the Honourable Member for Cheshire gave a most unqualified contradiction to tho state uiont which he ( Mr . T . Dnncombe ) had made on the authority of bis informant , a gentleman resident in Steckport , aud the testimony of oue of the prisoners was produced in support of tto contradiction . He ( Mr . T . Buncombe ) Jraniediatfcij" observed that smch contradictions cuining from friBunt-re , uuder the control of the magistrates , ought to le ucbived with extreme caution , ami therefurt- be btg ? ed Itave to adhere to the statement he had originally n : -de . After that contradiction , he thought tb « Hou ? e irni , ht fairly complain of the attempt thit had been made to mislead the House . If he had

      himself given w . iy on that occasion , perhaps not one of Uio iniquities connected with this prison would ever cave come to lignt- In consequence , however # of his perse verance in adhering to his statement , the Right Hou . Baronet opposite announced hia intention to send down an inspector to investigate the circumstances connected with tbe case , if he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) would furnish him with the information which be waa possessed of . Mr . Williams , the inspector of prisons , accordingly proceeded to institute an investigation into the case , and among other witnesses examined the Chaplain of the prison ; and if Hon . Gentlemen would take the trouble to read the report of Captain Williams , they would find that

      every statement made by him < Mr . T . Duncombe ) -stm fully proved and substantiated by that report . With respect to the charge against the governor of kuving used to tte prisoners violent and insulting Iraxguage , the Inspector Mid that , upon the concurrent testimony of the priaenen tncm-Bcives , corroborated in a considerable degree by tbe evidence of Mr . Tracer , an officer of the county gaol it appeared that the words addressed to prisoners by the governor , on tLe + arrival , were to the following effect : — " Now , yen ipecial commission men , you were etnt here to be puni ^ ed , and you shall be punished . The discipline of this prison is so rigorously enforced , and the laws eo Btrict , that if I have to punish any

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      of you , ft will h&ve such an effect upon youv constitutions , that even under the most favourable circumstances , the strongest man among you won't have a constitution that I would give twopence for when your I sentence shall expice . " Mr . Tracey described this as ; " harsh language , " but he ( Mr . Duncombe ) believed the 1 hou'se would agree with htm that it waa a most brutal ' ' speech . The report afterwards proceeded : — " The ! chaplain ' also deposes , that on the 5 th of December the governor met him in the prison yard , and , apparently ! under conaiderablo irritation , addressed him in these j words : ' Fahhurst , and Bome of these Chartists , have I been complaining about their beef ; ' and further sail , j ' Damn these Chartists , I'll give them their belly-full 1 1 * r i j . _•* . «_ it _ . in tl .. j » . _ before have done with them It when

      — I . ' " appeared , ! this speech was made , no third person was present ( Hear , hear , from Mr . Egerton . ) From that cheer it was evident that the Hon . Member intended to give credence to tho testimony of the governor in preference ' , to a man of respectability like the Rev . Chaplain of the gaol . If the governor denied the accuracy of the charge , why bad he not cross-examined the Chaplavn ' . on that point ? In consequence of what had tuken place , he ( Mr . T Dunconibe ) had other testimony I respecting the language Mr . BurgeBs , the governor , wns . in the habit of using with respect to bis prisoners . It j was a letter from a tradesman of K nutsford , who was ! quite ready to ceme before a committee of the House , : if a committee should he granted . The letter ran ! thus : —

      " Kuutsford , March 17 , 1843 . " Sir , —After perusing your remarks lately made in Uje * Hoti 8 e of Commons relative to the House of Correction at Knutsford , I beg leave to state that Burgees , who is tb > heail gaoler , has in the most unfeeling manner publicly boasted , in tho midst of a promiscuous company , in the bur of the George Inn , where ho occasionally goes to pass his evenings , ' of the short time in which by bis prison discipline be can break down ( as he expressed himself ) the constitutions of prisoners / who unfortunately by their misdeeds placed themselves under his tender mercies : such is this man ' s boast , his favourite theme ; no person of any respectability will in the moBt distant manner associate with him . Ho had orders from tbe hostess of the G-wge Inn to tnko a room whenever he came there , aa people who frequent the inn retire with horror from his presence on account of the merciless remarks he habitually indulges in , relative to the treatment of his prisoners . "

      For his part he ( Mr . Duncombe ) believed Mr . Brown , and he did not beliovo Mr . Burgess ; and he thought there would be gmit diiReu ' . ty in finding any one out of that House to believe that Mr . Burgess did not uso the words attributed to him by Mr Brown . The report went on to say— " It is alleged that certain of the prisoners were , on Thursday , the 20 th of October , in the sessions week , placed upon the treudwheel , out of their regular turn ,, for the purpose of shewing it working to strangers visiUng the house of correction . It appears to be customary for the gr ;; nd jury * at every sessions and adjourned sessions , to go through the house of correction previous to their discharge , and that they are occasionally accompanied by females ; that at such times , if the truadwheol is not at work , prisoners are

      called out from their wards and plnced upon it for a short time , to show tho manner of its working . The complaint made by thti prisoners of having on one occasion been placed on the wheel for such purpose in the sessions week , is , I consider , just , and that the practice is at all times object . iouuL" Here again the inspector fully bore him ( Mr . Duni-Miibe ) out in the charge he had in : ide . At tbe Genera ! ymrter Sessions , held on the 17 th of last month , th « magistrates there assembled agreed to a report to tho S cretary of Statu , in reply to tbe report of tbe inspector . In speaking of the practice of placing prisoners on the tread-wheel , for the purpose of showing its working to Visitors , the report of the magistrates said , "It appeavs to the Court that the practice has prevailed upon tho occasions

      of the visits of the grand jury , aud , as Captain Williams alleges , on some other occasions ; bu ., : is the latter instances appear to have oceutred always inthepreeence of a magistrate , this Court ccmsidera the governor to be esonerated . " He wai ready to prove that the statement that this was never 'lone except iu presence of a magistrate was false . Ho could prove that Ifwt summer a party , between four and five in the afternoon , went to see the prison , and that some prisoners were called out , for th « amusement of the visitors , to show tho working of the wheel , and that neither the governor nor a magistrate was present . The employment of V , {© Ion waa admitted . Tbe magistrates said , " It appears to the ceurt that a prisoner convicted of felony has been appointed by the governor to instruct

      misdemeanants iu the weaving , but he hud no authority ov 6 r them , and was never with them , unlesa he was called for by them to fetch materials or to instrnct them . This court have given directions that such practice shall not oecur for tho future . " Tho insufficiency of food was also admitted , and thus was each of his ( Air . Thomas Dunaome ' a ) charges fully borne out by tho report of the inspector . It appeared that the magistrates called the chaplain before them on the l" ; . h of March , and subjected him to an examination , requesting him to state what ha < J passed between him anrt the inspector . The magistrates kiu : w very well what hart occurred , for many of them had been I resent at tin ; examination of the chaplain by Captain Williams . Ii would have been better , certainly , under

      these circumstances , if the chaplain had answers-d at one- , and h : ul said , " Yes , I did say so and so ; I did gfve this information ; I was on my oath , and bound to speak the truth . " He was asked why he had not informed tbe magistrates at the time the words were used by the governor ? He said he had received orders , several years ago , to confine himself to bis spiiitual duties . He had , however , repeatedly entered on the journal esses of irrcgulnrlly on the part of the aovernor , such as non-attendance at prayers , or divine service , -which , according to the rules , he was bound to attend . The result of all this had been the dismissal if Mr . Brown , the chaplain . One charge brought against Mr . Brown was , that he was in the habit of corresponding with him ( Mr . Duncombe )—( a laugh . ) He had not

      been aware that there was any very serious wrung in ft man ' s corresponding with him , but , if there was it was an offence Mr . Brown was wholly innocent of ; for until he ( Mr . Duncombe ) heard of his dismissal , he had never known of Mr . Brown ' s existence . The Right Hon . Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department , in a letter mldress id to the Chairman of tb « General Quarter Sessions for the county of Chester had pronounced his opinion on the conduct of the covernor in these words : — " I have the honour to transmit to you a copy of the report of tho inspector of prisons for the northern district , on an inquiry info the treatment of prisoners in the Knutsford House of C rrection . It is unnecessary for me to enclose a copy of tho report which I received from the

      visiting justic ; s soon after the termination of the inquiry , aa they will cioubtJess already have transmitted to you a- copy for tho information of the magistrates ; but I enclose a copy of the inspector ' s remarks on tbe latter p . irt of that report , relating to certain particulars which were not conm-clud with the inquiry , but which the inspector deemed ecessary to bring before tho attention of tho visiting justices . I have to request that you will submit thi > u govern ? statements to the magistrates of the county , at their first general meeting in quarter sessions , and n quest their attention most espscially to those which rtlate to the conduct of the governor , that they may determine whether , after what hus occurred , they can . with ci . ntidence . and with safety , continue him in an office of such responsibility . I

      forbear pointing out the various particulars which show indiscretion in the governor and inattention to his iiuties ; but I cannot omit to mention one instance in which he appears to me to have been guilty of very great misconduct . I refar to a certain case in which , after the express directioi . s of the surgeon that corporal puuiihinent should csase . he insisted that it should be continued , and it was continued accordingly . The magistrates are fully aware that if , on that occasion , life had been endangered and death had ensued , the governor must bava been tried on a charge ne Ves » s than of homicide . And I af | persuaded the magistrates will be sensible of the great responsibility which must be incurred by them , from subjecting prisoners any longer

      to the custody of one who could eo misconduct himself . " The magistrates , however , had addressed the secretary in these terms : — " This court remarks that it would be very convenient and conducive to the discipline of the priBon , if the inspector would report to the visiting maeistrates any misconduct iu the officers or any other matter requiring their notice , as soon as it cami to his knowledge , to which the mngistrates will pay immediate attention . This court concludes by sayinjr , that after a careful investigation of the charges referred to its consideration , it is of opinion that with thu exception of the case of the boy Trainer ( which has a ready been adjudicated upon ) , such charges are in themselves not of much importance , and their

      recurrence provided against , and are not such as to deprive the governor of the confidence which the magistrate bavo hitherto reposed in him , and which his general good conduct and tbe discipline which he has maintained in the prison have appeared to deserve . " He ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) would maintain again that all bis charges bad been fully borne out by the Inspector ' s report , and if the correctness of that report was doubted , that was an additional reason why this : committee , for which he was about to move , ought to be granted . Among other charges against the governor was , that he had neglected to affix the rates ia a proper part of tbe prison . Tois was treated as a matter of little importance , but be ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) thought there was no part of tne priaon regulation * ot

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      more Importance to the unfortunate prisoners , to whom it was of tho highest importance to know the rules by which they were governed , and the nature of the rights of which they were not deprived . It was found that the gaoler had employed the prisoners , contrary to law , in mending his gig ; the iron was said to be only worth sixpence , but he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) believed it to be really worth three shillings and sixpence . But suppose it be only worth sixpence , they saw men committed atery day for stealing a few halfuence worth of apples or turnip-tops . Tfct-.-. a as to the circumstances connected with the whipping of the boy Edward Trainer , the case was said to have been adjudicated upon ; but the fact was , that he ha < l been merely reprimanded by the magistrates . There was another c : ise

      in which a boy , named Beacrott , bsd been digged previously to his removal to Parkhurst prison ; aud ha was flogged so carelessly , that Lh eye was severely injured by the thong . He understood that when a p « rs > n was to be flogged in this g iol . the town crier of Knutaford was called in to inflict the pnnishment at tho rate of two shillings for each person . It was oftea the case that so surgeon , or asiistuat-su'geon , attended to witness the flogging administorwl , bat merely an apprentice . The report of th « surgeoD , Mr . Deane , ou the stite of the gaol , ypwra diet , &c , stated that since his appointment to the office he had noticed the falling away o * tbe men employed in labour ; that his conviction was , that after an experience of fifteen years , it was impossible to keep men undergoing a long sentence

      of imprisonment , ia ordinary health , ou a reduced allowance of food , and he , therefore , recommended that the allowance should ha increased . Instead , however , of the gaoler giving tha prisuncrs an increase of food , as recommended by the sunjeo . 'i , the punishment continually resorted to was a stoppage of their fuuii . During the three months ending the 10 th of March , 1843 , the stoppages of diet fcad boen on the average 202 daily [ au Hon . Member on the Miniateral benches exclaimed "No ; that was the number of prisoners . " ] Stoppage of diet was the only description of punishment resorted to , and it fell frequently on the samp individual . The magistrates , however , seemed to think that

      all these matters were of no consequence ; they retained the gaoler but dismissed the chaplain . If they thought the chaplain uu improper person , why had they given him all those testimonials when applying for the chaplaiucy of the Pentonville prison . In July 1842 , the magistrates spoke of the assidions manner in which ho had performed his duties as chaplain—of his upright ami moral character as a cergyman and a Christian , although ia their report to tho Secretary of State they sakl he wib not entitled to their confidence , and had tot been so for the last three years . The gaoler , the surgeon , the schoolmaster , the task-master , and the matron all added their testimony to the exemplary conduct of tbe chaplain , as would bo seen by the following

      documents : — " KnuUford House of Corrt'ction Committee-room , July 26 , 1842 . " We , the undersigned magistrates , constituting the gaol committee of tho House of Correction , Kvutsford , iu the county of Chester , ami otters , have great satisfaction in btaring our testimony to the z-al , assiduity , and faithfulness with which the Kev . W . R . Browne , M . A ., our chaplain , has performed his onerous duties during two years and a half , and also to Ms upright and moral character , as a clergyman aud a Christian . ( Signed ) " Egerton Leigh , Hyde Jno . Clark , L . P . Townsbend , G . Wi braham , E J . Loyd , J . H . Harper , Jiia . F . Fr ; mce , R » bt . Hollingworth , John Howard , Chairman , Harry Mainwaring . "

      " The Rev . YV . Browne has held the situation of chaplain to the House of Correction here , for near three ye ; irs ; and having had , during that perio ; 1 . almost daily communication with him , I have gr-it pleasure in bearing testimony to tbe Z 3 al and assiiiuiiy with Which he has discharged the duties of his office . He has shown himself sincerely anxious for the moral improvement of the prisoners , and has spared no pains to accomplish his object . ( Signedi " Richard Dean , " Surgeon to the H > - > uee of Correction , " Kautaford , Cheshire . " July 28 , 1842 . " " House of Correction , Knutsford , July 28 , 1842 .

      " TheRtsv . W . Browne having officiated as chaplain here now two and a half yeurs . and having been in daily communication , in my otSci . il capacity , with him for that period , 1 beg to at-ld my testimony , along with several magistrates wh « have signed a testimonial ia bis favour , to the efficient manner in which he has discharged his duties , and the active z ; al displayed by him to muke hunadif useful in his mi / iisfceriai vocation . His private character will bear strict Investigation . ( Signed ) "Geo . Blt . c ; i : ss , Governor . "

      Thomas Hayes , schoolmaster ami clerk , says , " The chaplain has been very attentive to the boys , both a ? to religion and other mutters . Ho teaches them himself . He is the first chaplain who lm done so ; always examines the boys as to the chapter that has been read ; teaches them spelling : lectures , daily . Chaplain has always strove vury mvcu to do «• . od by lectures . Chaplain catechises the boys regulariv on a Saturday , when they repeat the collect . ihut ^ aa never done before Mr . Browne's time . ' He hn , s / one his cuty to the boys , you may depend upon it . ' "

      Greaves , task-master , says , "CV :.-: piatn never neglected his duty , he has seen him tike pci ? onets to hia ' room repeatedly . He never heard a complaint of the chaplain at tbe hospital . Hosj . itii m n nttcud chapel lectures every day after prayers . Ho i Greaves ) has been much edified by these lectures . He explains the ; Scripture in a clear and sensible way , c <> as tbe humblest j capacity may understand . Never h < :. trd a prisoner complain of chaplain ' s neglect . Constantly more or less , chaplain takes prisoners to hia priv .-uo room . This '¦ baa been his usual habit . Has Uktn them particularly ; before the sacrament "

      Mrs . Gaskell , matron , says , " Tr chaplain has been very atteutive . The women never w-w !! t > : ch instructed before bis time . She always requires th-j uh :: plain when prisonersare ill . He has always * at ( t > r , ri « rt immediately . Always has prayed with prisoners n-lka requested by them . She ( the matroni had accnsnr . ' . niu'f him on th > se occasions . Chaplain has asked rhtn ) whither they wishe . ii to be prayed to very f ..- i- 'eniiy . Juvenile females were never instructed before , ¦ " ¦ irly eo well . She never heard of the chaplain r . i ; gU ; ctin , i hi = i duty . Sue ! matron ) never omits taking the governor ' s order . Tbe chaplain ' s couversiition With j risrmris wIv . t , t , ick , ral'dious , and good . She has always nttem ' ed during theo ' - ' conversations . Chaplain h ; v 3 tiiwr'ys ) : aci cduvli--i * it . iou vr ; di the prisoners previous to thfir taking the sacrament . "

      Mr . Brosvn mi ^ ht , indeed , bo well pr » jd oi forfeiting the coiihih'tiio of such magistrates , i " u < v . however , had mac ' ' - up their muiiib six weeks bfi ' oru ' 0 iL-itnios the cli : 'p ! ain , and they ai . l not coiidesmn'i to vrune theroatt'T with those who dtluuded Iih i ' . f- ^ re . * --, Mr . G . Wiibraham , Mr . Jfci . Stanley , aud ' Mr . Diveuport . C'ne of the magistrates asked , " Is this t ; ao ! to be governed by the Secretary of State or tho siagistrates of tho county ?"—( hear , hear ) . Tho Secretary of State wrote to the vi « itinc justices , juhi ; hi 9 regret that tho governor of tho ^ ol shoulc havr been considered fit to bo continued in his place , m \ i expressing an opinion that Uio conduct he had followed should have led to hu immediate dismissal . That letter , he thought , reflected the grea ' est credit

      on the Right Honourable Baronet—( hear , hear . ) It was a bold and true stalemeiif of the case—a bald and true censure on those for v / nora he might be supposed to havo had some pr . 'dikotioa . The Height Honourable Baronet had proved that ke was above political feeling on thi- important occasion , and had passed a censure on the mo ^ La-ates , to which he was satisfied tbe whole puM : c ivwH respond . But now that the Secretary of ritar ^ i ad doue his duty , he main ; ained that it wuh for P ., ¦ ¦¦]• > unent to do theirs . It was impossible that , tiu ; questiu ; - c ,-uld stop where it was . The responsibility , iaki th- iti « h : Honourable Baronet , lay on the m '" isirv . c-, but ho ( Mr , T . Duncombe ) maintained ; j ; a- it lay r . n i ariiament . He did no 6 think the Ritrht lion Baror . et could

      carry the matter further than In : . ad done . He might certainly have cancelled fha c ruujit-jion , and remodelled it ; but that would lay z responsibility op the Right Hon . Baronet , wiimH no man had a right to impose . It was now fcr i' ¦;¦; ¦ a ?> v :. t to interfere . He did not think they ! i- » V . . \ a prohed to the bottom the iniquities and coiTuon ^ i- of this tj aol ; he believed that still greater tx \ . . . d f > -. iu appeared on the face of the document , am * Kt tais rea ^ ou he asked for a committee . He . was , ¦ r . n ' . red to prove that within these few days , Bura ; . ^ th-- gaoler , had collected some of the prison ofiL- • ¦ ¦*¦ -I teld them that the magistrates were doterniiuu to stand no mere of this nonsense , and that U ; i . ;> ¦ ¦ t ' tlii ) ofneem

      were found divulging anything t ' :- ' .. issedm the prison , they would be immediately ( ji-a ; issed . Ihis was lately made by this man , whu p ,=: cssed the confidence of the mojorifcy of the Che » bir < nngist rates . It ought not to be forgotten that from 2 , 000 to 3 , 000 individuals passed annually through < hi 3 gaol , and therefore the administration was of soon ; importance If nothing further were to be divulged respecting it , the inspectors of prisons would never be able to arrive at tho truth . If the magistrates ucubced tho accuracy of tho inspector ' s report in th ' s instance , ind thought he had misled tho Secretary of State , that was an additional reason for granting thceoamittee . But , at all events , he thought that Parliament would see the necessity of strengthening the hands

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      of the Secretary of State , and granting f \ i ! , e < powers ior the regulation of a system so ccv ; : ¦{ of justice and humanity , as had prevailed withret ' . : ? g to this prison . The Honourable Member cone m ; d by moving the following resolution : — "That h _ ppearing to this House that the Secretary of Slat : Vor the Home Department , after inquiry made under hi 3 authority into certain circumstanced connected with the discipline and ma , n&ge&eat of tho Kntitsford House of Correction , in the county of Chester , has thought it right to ¦

      advise that the governor of the said Houso of . orrcction should be removed ; and it also appearing that the magistrates , in sessions assembled , h : ;/ o , after an alleged careful examination , deemed : hQ charges referred to them by the Secretary of Sute , with one exception , net of mnoh im portance , ror such as to deprive the governor of the couhde-nea opposed in him , and whioh . as they allege , hi ? gei ral good conduct , and the discipline ho had maintain d , appeared to deserve ; and , therefore , that such governor , contrary to the recommendation of i ' ne Secretary of State , has been continued in hia offi 6 ; and it being alleged by the Rev . William Browne , in his petition , presented to this House , that hr : a 3 been dismissed by the magistrates , after givtu * - Adence against the governor before the inspector o £ prisons , upon the examination instituted by s .-jh

      inspector , uuder the authority of the Secretary jf State ; and this House , conoidoricg that the due : ^ id proper mar . agement of the said gaol must be ot mportanco to the public , and that the same must n .-job materially ^ spend upon the character and co := . . at of the governor thereof , and upon due pfo' - ; e :- > a being afforded to persons who may from tiuf to time be called upou to give evidence befcro the . aspector cf prison ; - ia respect thereof : it is resolved , that a select , committee be appointed , to inquire into the conduct and management of the said llo ' . Sv ot Correction , in respect to the matters referred to in ' ha report of the magistrates , and also into tho circ » instances connected with the dismissal of tho Lev William Browno , tho late chaplain of tho -id House of Correction ; the said committee to r . rt the evidence taken , and their opinion thereon , tc ; e House . "

      Mr . W . O . Stanley seconded the motion . Mr . Tattos Egertoh as one of the Cheshire r ^ . " agistrates implicated , denied that the governor o < " ' e prison po' -i .-ased his confidence , and , expressed ai 9 regret at thv courso which they had adopted . V : , i . t even . admitting that they had erred in yad ' : w : > -A misled by feelings of attachment to ar > <^ --d faithful servant , still a body of thirty-four ^ r , ; u » r \ n residing in and well acquainted with tho ioc-i , - / , must be better judges of all tho circumstance ih % n the House . The chaplain had attributed hia dismissal to political motivo * , which was a libe' on the magistrates , for a laryje portion of those who concurred in it wire i : b . ? ral in their political principles , and he had been treated leniently , considering his conduct . He opposed the motion .

      Sir Geobge Strickland said investigation v ? a 3 absolutely necessary . Ho had defended tho " gnat ; unpaid" in periods when they were not very popular ; but the allegations against the Governor of Knu * gford gaol were too serious to be passed over , seeing thi : manner iu which the magistrates l . wd screened him . Mr . Herbert Curteis was also convinced i :. fc thcro , shouicl be inquiry . His prejudices , : ia a h » v : 3-trate . had been enlisted against the motion , but : ie speech of Mr . T . Dancombo had satisfied hlia thai a strong case had been made out , to which no ^ ufiicsi at answer had been given .

      Sir J . Graham said that it was not his inteatior > to enter at length into the question which the H a . Member for Finsbury had that evening brou ^ ifc before the House . In the first place , it was his di ; y to acknowledge that the Hou . Member was luly justified in bringing that matter under the consid-ratiou of the House . Ho must also compliment tna Hon . Member for the dispassionate manner in which he had stated the case to the House . He ( Sir J . Graham ) would at once direct his attention to the mil point involved in tha raoCioa of the Hoa . Aloiaber for a committee to inquire into the conduct a id a-ana ^ cment of the House of Correction . He c < . acurred in what had fallen from the Hon . Baro : < efc the member for Preston . He thought with ti . ifc

      Hon . Baronet that this question ought to be ca cfully sifted . If he ( Sir J . Gnliaiij ) considered tl xt any additional inquiry would bring to li ^ iat any r ; v facts in connexion with this case—if he couid oa induced to believe that the investigajion a .- > ked ior by the Hon . Member would bo productive of gooc — lie would not resist the motion for a coaiioiU-ee cf inquiry . U had been affirmed that the Prison inspectors had no power to investigate . A special inquiry had been made and was belore the Lou .-o . He diffared from the view which the Honourai'e Member for Chester had taken . He thout it that the matter which had reference to theckapk . a had * been quite settled . With refcreaco to taa conduct of that gentleman he was not prepared to

      pronounce an opinion . He had no knowledge jf tbo leading facts . The Hon . Member for Fins ' ou-y complained that he ( Sir J . Graham ) had not hid . upon the table of the House all the reports made )> y the Prison Inspectors . Under certain cirenrastaac ? 3 reports of this kind ought to be considered a ; o ! a a confidential , character . CotnwmBicaticus a ; o which were made between the Secretary of Suuo and tho bench of magistrates should be viewt-. . n confidential . Under tna particular circum * t iiiois o £ the case he ( Sir James Graham ) should have th ' -ught thit he had acted wisely if ho had refused p : bl ; ct y io tho letters to which allusion had been rca ' 3 . Whilst oa thH Eubjcct , he was bound to state that the most difficult ; parr in the admistration of his

      offiae was the management of the gaols oi' thi * country . ' ( Cheers . ) But he was bound also to say that from the magistracy in general ho had received , ia the discharge of his official duties , the most efficient assistant . ( Choirs . ) He , therefore , thought nut auy change of the law in that respect would net be conducive co tho public good . If the visiting magistrates wero to be allowed to continue iu tbeY-xcrcise of control , the power of tho officers of tbo - ^ r .-il must be vested in them . That power of cob-roi would be very iiufiicicnt if they had not the po ^ -er of removal ia certain cases . He felt himself justtgf d in . stating , that the majority of the magistrate ? of the county of Chester were iu favour of the gaol , r remaining in office . The majority was

      overwhelming—he did not say unanimous—but it was certainly overwhelming . The majority was composed of gentlemen entertaining the most opposite political opinions . Ho adopted the opinion of the Hon . Member who had recently addressed the Hon ?' , and regrotted that any feeling of jealousy should have arisen in consequence of his ( Sir J . Graham ' s ) interference . He was unwilling to speak with harshness of the decision io which the magistrates had come respecting the dismissal of the chaplain . Ho cauld not regard it as a judicious exercise of discretionary power . Having made this admission he must say , that he could not consent to the proposition of the Hon . Member for a committee . Ho was strongly of opinion that tho appointment e £

      tho different official personages connected with the gaols , as well as the power of dismissal , should be vested in the hands of the magistracy . Without pledging the Government to any ulterior mea-nves he trusted the House would give the Secretary of State concurrent power of dismissal with the magistrates . He again asferted . that judging irrro his past experiecce , he was disposed to consiajr ihat . it would be conducive to the public good thai iha Secretory of Stato should havo that pow ; r . ft-. was sorry to detain the House , but ho mu 3 t a ^ ain repeat , that hg did not think there was any good ground for inqdiry . He , however , was prepared to admit that i ' ivj nwstion could not stand in its present position . U » - did think that let ^ 'lative interfer . ijc " : would ba b . - ; u <» v th-iu tho inquiry which the Honourable

      Mrmber . fi . r Finabury solicited . The ma ^ i-tracy mast hnvo ih " , power of appoint in ent and dismissal , Vuojrcfc to ; . rti' -lic opinion . Ho , was an advocate fov rvtz ' . r . r . ig the power in the local authorities ; but some ¦ ¦ > vr ,-ol tvai- necessary . The Secretary of State should , he thu'i ^ ht , have concurrent jurisdiction with th > iaagi .-ti-itf-s . . In conclusion he would strongly im ;> rf . ? 3 on tho ! lot ! . Gentleman the expediency of not ( ov ; •' ing this question to a division . If he did persist it w . juld be dearly his ( Sir J . Graham ' s ) duty to divids against him ; but whether there wa 3 & diristou or ;< yS he would pronr . Fe that the matter should be earoi ' til ' v con ? id lY-d by Her Majesty ' s Government , a'ld ;> 3 could further fay , that : h at present advised , ho r , ^ deposed in 'he course of the present session , to oit '; r sonin legislative remedy for the evils coinpiaiued of . ( Cheers . )

      Sir T . Wilde noxt addressed the Houso , hxit in poni-. ' ( jueiice of a severe cold the Hon . and Learned Geutloman ' s tone v / a .- ; so low that it was utterly irapob .-iblo to disthil . a ..-h hi < sentences in the gallery ,, As ta , r a .- ? we could understand , he severely censured thecondtic ; of the gaoler and reproved the ma . ^ istraten ior not taking tariior notice of the abuses . If the Hou-so did no ; imerfere when such a case o £ neglect was presented to iheir . notice , it was clear they would nerer interfero at alt . He expressed his /' ear , that bad a , = ? the facts were , the Housa did not tven yet know ail . As they Btood these fac ^ a

      presented an overwhelming case , and unless tho Government would di .-ti » ctiy promise to take the case into their own hands , no thought the motion for the committee ought most decidedly to be granted There was a precedent for such a proceeding in . the case of a warden of the Fleet Prison , who wes charged some years bark with gross misconduct , and whose cjse was strictly investigated by a committee ut the House . However , if the Government would take the subject up , then the Hon . Momber for Finsbury might leave the matter in their bands , and a division would be unnecessary .

      i < lr . W . O . Stanley disapproved of tha conduct ot are Cheshire Justices , b > th in the retention of the gioL'Jt and in t&e dismiss 1 of tho chaplain . iMr . I . egh said a few words iu justiBoation of ih . 9 magistrates for tho disroi . ^ al of the chaplaic . Alter a . few words frou Mr . llEM . hY , who expressed au opinion that the whole subject , of prison didcjpliiie must shortly be revised , Mr . Duncombe replied , consenting to withdraw hia motion .

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      i /^^ g 1 ^^^ B > ¦¦¦ | B . ^ m ^^^ M " ftCv 4 . ^^^^ B ^^ F ^^ B AV « I ^ k ^^ Y / ^ JjjB ^_ _ AND LEEDS GENERAL ADVERTISER .

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      ;_ F 0 L- VI . yp . 289 . SATURDAY , MAY 27 , 1843 . ™ P Y " \ ™™™ £ ™ l ™*

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      • • ¦ ' ¦ - J ^ -V ^ - ^ :, />

      T-* Th^ Producers Of Wealth, And All Those Who Lite By Industry Ox The Land.

      T- * TH ^ PRODUCERS OF WEALTH , AND ALL THOSE WHO LITE BY INDUSTRY OX THE LAND .

      £Utpmaj ^Arltamcnt.

      £ utpmaJ ^ arltamcnt .

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), May 27, 1843, page 1, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct804/page/1/