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Northern Star (1837-1852), 4th December 1841, Edition 4 of 5, Page 5, Untitled Ad

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      Untitled Ad

      THE POOS MAN'S COMPANION" j OR POLITICAL ALMANACK FOR 1842 , pONTAINING , in addition to the usual Almanack \ J Matter in the Calendar , the Epoch * of the Chartist Agitation , the Dates of the Spy Outbreaks at Newport , Dewabury , Bradford , and Sheffield ; the trial , conviction , sentence , aad transportation , of Frost , Williams , and Jones ; the trials , sentence , incarceration and liberation , of F . O'Connor , Esq ., for libel ; and the trials and impr isonments of 3 . B . O'Brien , and other Chartist Leaders .

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      f VUARTERLY BALANCE SHEET OF THE \ ol LONDON DELEGATE COUNCIL , commencing August 8 ih , and ending October 31 st , 1841 .

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      5 CASBBO ' . —The friends cere have recently hid an evidence of middle class sympathy ia the I-goa of as innkeeper , mined John Chapman . At £ ^ of our general meetings , it was agreed that we should hire the old Freemasons' Lodge for Mr . StoDwood to leetare in , it being a most suitable STje for the purpose , and a deputation was sent to \ £ TJohn Chapman , -who has the lodge to let . To tta ' astonishment of wine of his customers , the Aepatsfion receired thiB answer , namely , " That he ^ jd have no such rnbbiah there . " 3 XSLET . —Too xast Tbachkbs . —The people of injs parish ( Bialey ) bare at length began to be alive r ^ their own interest . We hare a population of tout thirty thousand people , and those are sabjeei to about six or eight persons , and although many of tie r »* e-P * T * " ™ * state of stMTWioa , the rate jus nearly doabl&d tie last on cottages . Mr .

      Watvjm and nyseif hare been the means of calling two -getin gs of the rate-payers last week , aad Saturday K ein g the day of appeal , although many of the ratepayers had not been called upon for the liberal sum jSoinded , and thereby could not appeal , we mustered in good order . On Mr . Hall Deing called to the chair , I moved , as an amendment , that a worknyj man take the chair , which was carried unanig £ a £ 7 , but he refusing , Mr . Hall kept the place ; uid he refusing to put the resolution to the meeting , we nat it ourselves , and adjourned the meeting till S » mrd » v next . Some of the taskmasters looked mm tterable things , baring sat there for about thirty -ears without any opposition . They behaved like iudmen , foaming at the mouth , and declaring that the people ha'e " too many teachers . " I remain , ToursTin the cause of liberty , Richard Wosejun . Brown ' s HUl j in the parish of Bisley ,

      Gloucesterf , Tt-gRg AVKU M ¥ . —Tins Masoss' SraiKK , — A snb « cription-sheet is opened at the Bush Inn , in this fcTwB , for the m *» as who are on the strike at ihe new Houses of Parliament , and is liberally subscribed to . Shosxaktes' Stbikx . —A great portion of the shoemakers of this town , who are in the employ of Messrs . Daniel and Co ., are at present on strike . On Saturda y last , the masters came to the decision to reduce the men three-pence in the pair . A meeting of the jonrnevnwn vr * s held on Monday last , when iiht of the best workmen , who hare all families , eSne to the decision to abandon their work , and geek employment , rather than succumb to such an abatement .

      BOCEDAXiE . —Police Law . —I hare before had occasion to draw the attention of your readers to the doings of the great" Unpaid" of this town , but I think their decision in the following case gaads unparalleled . The following magistrates were en the bench . —Messrs . Royds , Chadwick , Xelsall , Oosslej , and Heape . A person of the name of Lee , from Heywood , summoned Sergeant Batho u d Inspector Abbott , of the county police , for an jgaols , and illegally breaking into her house ; she are her evidence as follows : —On Sunday morning , the ' 21 st instant , between the hours of ten and twelve in the forenoon , she , with some neighbours , wgre sat in the house , when Batho came in , and after looking all round went away again . Shortly

      after , he , accompanied by Abbott , another policeman , tad a churchwarden , came past the window ; the witness seeing them coming , went to her door for Qte purpose of fastening it , when Batho attempted to burst it open , which tne witness resisted , but being oTerpowered , the door was forced from its tinges with great -violence and hurled into the Kindle of the floor , and herself much injured by be 3 g thrown against the wall ; she was then suffering from the ill-treatment she had received , dig evidence was corroborated by other witnesses . On the police being called on for their defence , they said they had reason to believe that the baese in question was what ia here called a * tush shop , " or place where beer is sold without

      Boose , and that they went for the purpose of asfifTt *"""?? that fact , and considered themjelres justified in acting as they had . dene . On being asked by Mr . Chadwick whether they had fraud any beer , they answered "No . " It ought here to be remarked that the police , last week , hrouKht up Lee for Belling beer , but the case was fiaouBsed as a frivolous charge . It was evident to ay unprejudiced mind that toe breaking into the poor woman ' s house was the result ot disappointment m sot being able to sacrifice their victim . Superintendent Phenx said that he had , the week before , dressed up one of his men , and sent him to this house in disguise as a navigator , ( hear that , ye men of Eoehdale 2 ) to fee whether any "hush" was sold

      there or not . He ( . the policeman ) had seen nothing wrong on the premises , and being discovered , he was , as all Bach spies and traitors should be , kicked oat of doors , ilr . Royd , as Chairman of the Bench , pve it as his opinion , being backed by a majority ef the Bench , that the police had acted perfect . y right , and he would dismiss the case . Whereupon Mr . William Chadwick rose up in a state of great excitement , and said he was surprised how any Bagistrates could come to such a decision upon the rri deooe before them ¦ They had no evidence of any - thing except the breaking into Lee ' s house : the " hush . " business was all supposition , and he maintained the opinion that the police had no right to break into any person ' s house without the warrant of a magistrate , u If , " said he , "it hid been my house , I would have taken the hw into my own hands , and maintained

      the right to defend my own castle . Things were come to a pretty pass when people ' s houses could be broken into , because a policeman thought proper to ¦ aspect something against the inmates . The woman Lee here asked who was to pay the expences . The rtiu ' nntti said the ease is dismissed—you must each pty your own . Mr . Chadwick said , "Don ' t pay * nj expences ; before you shall pay anything , I will axe the ease myself into a higher court . " On the Magistrates rising from the Bench , Mr . Chadwick aid to the Superintendent of the district- ^ - " Well , Phenix , a Bench at Magistrates have decided that voahave a perfect right to break into any person ' s noose you tninfc proper—so there is no responsibility Uiached to you ; you are at perfect liberty to act as jon deem fit . " Tne court was very much crowded when the above took place , in coaseqaence of its bung the first general sessions since the introduction of the Rural Police . There was one general feeling rf admiration that Mr . Chadwick had the boldness

      i&d manly feeling to stand up against so great a majority in defence of the poor man ' B nearly last remaining right . Bnt that gentleman's bold defence of poverty and right did not rest here . He , next &J , went to the Magistrates' Office , at the usual tane . There were on the Bench Messrs . Royds , ntaself , and Heape . He said , before business commenced he wished to ask the Law Clerk , Mr . Woods , a question . He wished to ask whether the case thit came before them yesterday was decided according to law 2 He had studied the law on this subject , and , from all the authorities he had consulted , he was of opinion that every man ' s house was Ms castle , which no one had a right to is-Tids . Mr . Woods said there were certain cases

      of in urgent nature where there was a right eo to break in . Mr . Chadwick . u Bat ihiB case has nothing of that sort about it . All that we had before us in this case was the supposition that the parties sold " lash , " but the police having visited the place several times , and nothing being produced to substantiate that supposition , that falls to the pound , and leads us to suppose that the police have Ken actuated by malicious motives towards Lee . Bat what I want to know is this : —was that case in Jour opinion decided according to law ! " Mr . " oods— " In mj opinion the case was decided according to law . " Mr . Chadwick— " Then , gentlemen , if that be the law of this place , I will not be a means of dispensing SEch law ( taking up his cloak

      and suck ) nor will I come here again until there is * better understanding upon- the point which was decided here yesterday . " He left theeourt , wishing them good morning . We understand that Mr . Cbad-Tjj ek nas instructed his attorney to prepare the facts « a the case , to be submitted to counsel for an opinion thereupon . Too mnch praise cannot be given to Mr . Chadwic k for his moral courage thus rightly exhibited a defence of justice to the helpless and oppressed , * hile at the same time one cannot contemplate tne facts of the case altogether without being sen-^ sl y struck with the idea that there is no hope for « e poor man but in his own exertions . A great deal = « latterly been said that tne Chartist leaders are ooiBg their utmost to set the poor against t « e

      2 jbi but I will leave it to any candid person * &Kher rich or poor , if a case such as the above wi ll tot do more than fifty speeches to estrange the feelings of the poor from the wealthy , when they see toeu dearest rights trampled upon with the sanction « those who ought to be their protectors . You will Perceive b y the above that we have had the Rural Jface introduced into this borongo , their introduction a one of tne basest deeds ever enacted by any faction or willing tyrants . The men of Rochdale have ever « K > wn themselves alive to their local interests , and the Chartists by their good management have obtained great power in every department of the «* al government of the town . The Tories have become greatly alarmed at thisand being defeated

      , ** erery P ?" * , have ( . because the commissioners of PWioe decided in eorseqnence of the distress of . the P » l > le , to dispense with gas light for the present ^ T&ter , and thereby save to the town upwards of fjpW , ) signed a memorial to the chief constable or the ceunty , requesting him to Bend his spy wuttgeonmen . The memorial was signed by our near , ( of Canterbury dinner notoriety , ) and about * irt y others , who having lost the confidence of the People , are determined to see if the introduction of tn * spy and bludgeon will be the means of making the People in love with Toryism . Bnt they have overshot tor mark ; this vilianoas act will be the means of JoWly annihilating this already expiring faction in « M &strict . -Correspondent .

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      BARNSLBY . —On Sunday , our churcheB wer well filled , in the morning at St . Mary ' B , and in the evening at St . George ' s , to bear the funeral sermons of the late aniertunate sufferers ; on both occasions the Rev . Gentlemen omitted the favourable opportunity of calling on his hearers to contribute to relieve the wives and families of the victims . WOBTHAMPTOW—MASO tfsTSTBlKE—There was a public meeting held in the Guild Hall , in this town , on Wednesday , th « 24 th of Nov ., to take into consideration the case of the masons now on strike

      at the New Houses © f Parliament , Mr . Spencer in the chair ; the meeting was addressed by Mr Wilson , a delegate from London , and Messrs . Edwards , M'Farlan , Quick , Rabbins , ? . nd Miller ; and resolutions were adopted pledging- the meeting to use its mfluenoe in supporting those noble-minded men in their battle against the monster Allen , backed as he is by power and capital . A resolution was also adopted denouncing the Weekly Dispatch and the rest of the venal London press that had misrepresented the masons and their cause .

      TO THE CHARTISTS OF GREAT BRITAIN . Bbathbs . Democrats , —In addressing you again , I will lay before you , in as concise and plain a manner as I can , our actual position . The Association now extends to 282 localities ; that is , they nave formed , or are forming-themselves into the National Charter Association . It is very true that m very many places they have not been enabled to send for their cards of membership : in Stockport , Colne , and several other districts , such is the amount of destitution , that it is impossible they could come forward with their contributions to the good cause . But the poor fellows have done their best . Having left Manchester on last Friday

      fortnight , I travelled via Hall , where Mr . Leach had & glorious meeting . After having Minted the principal towns in Yorkshire , we met some good men in Hall . We sailed from Hull , and arrived in London on Sanday evening . The Executive commenced their sittings on Monday . The country have before them Bome of our deliberations . We nave had a good deal of business to transact ; and , from the letters I have received from all parts of the coantry , every satisfaction has been given . The balance sheet is partly in type , and will be out on Saturday week . The expences we have been at have not amounted to ten pounds per week , whilst our income during nineteen weeks has been

      about £ 170 ., our outlay £ 183 . The Corn Law repealers have exp ended more money in one week , aye in one day . than we have in five months , yet such is the intelligence of the people , that the Corn Law repealers cannot progre 33 , whilst our principles are progressing with railway velocity . I must now allude to London and the prospects of our cause . There are now twenty-five districts , in each of which the association numbers from twenty to three hundred members each . The materials in London are excellent , aye , my friends in London , in aristocratio London , Chartism is widely disseminated . I met Mr . Maynard , an excellent Chartist , not exactly one of your talking Chartists , but a hard

      working Chartist , who treated me very kindly , in fact not only did Mr . Maynard treat me so , but also did Messrs . Wheeler , Salmon , Taylor , Polling , Jago , Robson , and several other good men and true . The plan adopted by the London Chartists to obtain signatures to the petition , is well worthy of adoption by all , namely , to take a petition heading to every house , and after it has remained a day or two , to call for it again , and then to solicit the signatures of all tiie adults is the house . The London men are resolved to visit the Archbishop of Canterbury , Lord John Russell , Sir Robert Peel , the Duke of Wellington , and as many of the aristocrats as possible , to obtain their signatures to the National Petition . The London Chartists anticipate half a million of signatures from the Metropolis alone . Mv friends , you . should see to understand the real position we occupy . I lectured in St . Pancras , on

      Sunday week last , to an overflowing audience . After ten o ' clock , I had to tramp to Marylebone , where there was another densely crowded meeting . I addressed them for half an hour , and they urgently requested me to remain in town for another week , and lecture for them . I consented to do so . On Monday night , I addressed a public meeting in Wandsworth , where the National Petition was adopted in the most enthusiastic manner . On Tuesday night , I addressed them in Lambeth . On Wednesday night , the Executive attended the meetings of the General Council . On Thursday and Friday nights , I attended the discussion between Loyd Jones and Mr . Parry . On Saturday night , I attended at Limehonse , and on Sunday night , I lectured at Marylebone , to au audience of about 800 persons . The meeting was a bumper and seemed highly delighted with my humble efforts . And now a word for the discussion betwixt Messrs .

      Jones and Parry . In my humble opinion , Mr . Parry had the best of the argument . He never dealt in personalities , whilst Mr . Jones , I think , did do so , making nse of the rascally Times , which called the Chartists as incorrigible set of scoundrels , and shewing up to the meeting the fate of poor Frost . The two disputants , however , are cleyer men , but Mr . Parry ' s conduct , at the close of the discussion , more firmly rivetted in my mind the good opinion I entertained of him , by his giving up his share of the proceeds to the masons on strike . I thought Mr . Jones was about to do the same thing , when , to my surprise , he said he would give his share to the Ty therly Community .

      In conclusion , brother democrats , allow me to congratulate you on our present glorious Dosition . Over every mountain top are the glad tidings of Chartism carried ; through every valley are they wafted by every passing breeze ; in every village , borough , and city our principles are predominant . Onward , and we conquer ; backward , and we fa ll ! Universal Suffrage , and No Sarrender ! I remain , Brother democrats , Your fellow-labourer in the good cause , John Campbell , Secretary .

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      THE MASON ' S STRIKE . TO THE ED 1 TOB OP THE KORTHBRN STAB . Sib , —Permit us through the medium of the Star , to inform the stonemasons throughout the country , that the strike at the new Houses of Parliament , Woolwich Dock yard , and Nelson ' s Monument , is still pending , with a probability of being so for a considerable time yet , inasmuch as the walk are being covered up for the winter . . The object of Grissell and Peto in doing this is , no doubt , to starve the masons , if possible , into submission to their wishes , having through sad experience , discovered that men without principle are in general without talent .

      As cost of those who came , to London for the purpose of working at these jobs , plead the excuse of having heard or understood that the strikeis settled ; we wish it distinctly to be understood , tha ; such is not the ca ? e , and that hundreds of efficient masons , unconnected with our strike , are walking London streets out of employment , butwho , though solicited by Allen , to commence work at these jobs , from a knowledge of his inhuman treatment , have manfully and indignantly spumed his entreaties . The local masons and other trades of London have nobly done their duty—they are with us to a man ,

      fnlly determined to support us to the last . The trades of the country too have geserously come to our aid . The only enemies we experience from the operatives , and which is not a verv formidable band , are those creatures who have come to London professedly journeymen masons , and who are last proving te Grusel : and Peto that they are as deficient in the necessary abilities to perform their work , as they were in kindred feelings of humanity towards their feUowB—having already destroyed , through iheir ignoranct , more work than their gratuitous eeTvices could repay for years .

      In Ulustration of their incapacity and meanness , k perhaps may be proper to state that while in London journeymen ' s wages are five shillings per day , tbese voluntary instruments of degradation are working for from two shillings and sixpence to five shillings , the great majority receiving only three shillings and sixpence . Grissell and 1 ' eto , writhing under the lash of public opinion , hare , without the slightest particle of evidence , gvstn a flat denial to the charges we alleged to Allen , and some of Allen ' s friends ha > e also denied them for him ; he { Allen ) being incapable of writing for himself . We have challenged them for the production of their evidence , ( our ' s being at any time ready , ) and profferred to submit the case to arbitration ; but which , tenacious that " their dignity would be lowered , " they reject .

      Since the publication iu the Metropolitan and Provincial press of these deuials by GriBsell and Peto and their man Friday , Allen , the individual , Thomas Hickey , who had his leg broken , and who they stated was still in Grissell and Peto ' s employment , has published in some of the daily papers , his own version of the case , and which more palpably demonstrates the bi utility of Allen , than any thing we have asserted or written . To controvert Rickey ' s statements , Messrs . Barker and Allen mason ' s foremen , and Wardle , Grissell and Peto's pay clerk , have appeared before a magistrate . Wardle for the purpose of making oa ; h that he did not believe Allen had made use of

      the language imputed to him in Hickey s letter . Allen for the purpose of making oath that he never discharged any man without gmDggood reasons for so doing , and that he never made use of such language as Hickey had imputed to him . Barker for the purpose of makiDg oath that in his opinion , Hickey deserved to be discharged . But strange tc say , the magistrate , notwithstanding compliments from their " superiors , " either from the appearance of these gents ., or the vaccillating manner in which they feave their statements , or some other , to ua unknown cause , objected to admit any of their statements on oath . We admit at once , that Allen did not discharge Hickey without his own reason , but we deny that his reason was a good one ,

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      i being accoording to Rickey ' s showing in the letter he has published , because he ( Hickey ) was a •* d— -d lame cripple ; " and this is so very like Alien ' s general language , that ao one who knows him will doubt its truth ; but if any does , several men , who heard the language , are ready to bear testimony to iUaoouraey , and who are * 3 worthy of belief as Richard J . Wardle . But the fact is , they know Allen ' s conduct will not bear publio investigation . They at first fancied , in their ignorance , that they could get us at defiance ; they next tried to create division in our ranks ; they then tried to delude men to London , to supplant us ; and , finding ail these ineffectual , they are

      endeavouring , through misrepresentation , to destroy the confidence of oar friends . They publicly assert that they want no more hands , having as many as they need ( certainly , of the sort ) , yet continue their agents in various parts of the country , practising their delusions upon the unwary , recommending them to the Houses of Parliament ; but where is the man , possessing the feelings of humanity , who would knowingly submit himself the miserable slave of such men ! If there are any so basely dispoB&d , we shall merely tell them that those agents have a similar interest in sending them to London as a pig-jobber his cattle—namely , so much per head for any efficient mason who goes to work at either of the jobs struck against .

      Butfr&mthe knowledge we have of our fellowworkmen , the disposition they ; have already shewn and are continuing to exhibit in our favour—from the knowledge we have of the inability of those poor degraded serfs , whohave attempted to Bupplant us —from the determination manifested in our own ranks we are sanguine of an unsullied victory ; we know that in every town and village in the queendom we have a host of sincere friends ; we know the struggle we are engaged in is no ordinary one ; we know that the eyes of our fellow men are upon ua ; and beg , therefore , to state that our determination iB to maintain that position we have assumed , fearlessly and perseveringly to pursue that line of conduct , which is becoming the character and dignity of men determined to be free .

      Signed on behalf of the masons , Alexander Wilson , Chairman of Managing Committee ; Thomas Shortt , Corresponding Sec .

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      PUBLIC DISCUSSION , ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY EVENINGS , THE 26 TH AND 27 TH ULT ., AT THE SOCIAL HALL , TOTTENHAM COUBT BOAD , BETWEEN J . H . PARRY AND LLOTD JONES , ON THE COMPARATIVE CLAIMS OP CHARTISM AND SOCIALISM TO PUBLIC SUPPORT . At the appointed time , bait past seven , the two dis putants arrived , Mr . Parry nominated Mr . Morton to be his chairman , Mr . Fleming was appointed on behalf of Mr . Jones , and Mr . Coras acted as moderator . It had been previously arranged that the speakers should occupy alternate half hours , and the discussion should close on each evening at half patt 10 o ' clock ; the proceeds after paying all expenses , to be equally divided between Messrs . Parry and Jones , ts be by them given to some publio purpose . Charge for admission , hall , 2 d . gallery , 4 d-

      Ms . Lloyd Jones The subject they had to di » - cusa , did not bear on any metaphysical doctrine , on which it was easy to excite the passions or an audience ; the question was which of the two systems was best calculated to better the physical , moral , and mental condition of man , which would most speedily and easily guide them to the attainment of that liberty and happiness of which they were la pursuit , and the system ¦ which in their opinion was best calculated to do this , would receive the support of the majority , or there would be no utility in holding the discussion . What is Chartism and what is Socialism ; what their probable result when put into practice ? Socialism is founded on the principles of the nature of man as an individual ; and collectively as a society . Socialism recommends its

      principles to no parties but themselves ; it is independent of foreign aid , it takes advantage of the laws as they exist , to forward the objects it has in view . It is the duty of any body of men before they propose any measure calculated to break up all existing laws , to prova by practical illustration , the usefulness of that which they call upon the masses to adopt , lest the proposed remedy should prove a source of extensive injury . Socialism does this ; we are engaged in practically Illustrating our doctrines ; but to be carried out on a large scale it demands an extensive capital , and we appeal to the clear-sighted amongst you if you think our views correct , to assist us in carrying them into effect . Socialism starts with the principle that men will never act well in masses until they act well as individuals ;

      we therefore insist upon a good education being given to every human being ; we demand that the land out of which we have ao long been defrauded , shall be put in our possession ; we know that by the sanction of the law it is In the hands of others , and that by no logic or argument can we induce them to yield us possession ,-the easiest -way then u by purchase . I grant that if by a short scuffle without much bloodshed , we could get possession of our inheritance , seeing the great misery which exists , that ; would be the best , ; bnt seeing that tbe struggle would be long and difficult , we think it the safer way to try on a small scale the principles we profess ; to prove by practical measures that a common holding of the common land , is superior to the present private holding ; in settling on the land oar axiom is ,

      that no one sheuld be compelled to do for another , what he can do for himself , without yielding a proper equivalent ; every member of society should use his exertions for the benefit of society , and in return should be entitled to an equal share of the benefits derived from the labour of the whole ; misery and crime would then be banished the earth , none would netd to ask their brother men for leave to toil ; and yeu must bear in mind that this could be effected without the passing of any new law or the abrogation of any law now in existence , this we have clearly proved by practical experiments . I put these principles , thus supported , against those advocated by the Chartists ; they only claim political power , forgetful that they must be in possession of knowledge to rightly

      secure that power after tbe Charter ; yon will then nave to decide -whether you trill repeal the Corn Laws , abolish the House of Lords , remove private property , or what measure you will adopt , and to agree upon this would take you as much time as it would , if you clearly understood your interest , to remove want , and the fear of want from the face of the earth ; to complete your views y « ro must have a majority of tbe nation , ours can be accomplished by a section ; you are far from being united ; you have even Operative Conservative Assocla ations ; your Hunts , jour Cobbetts , your Cartwrights have gone to their graves , and still you are in the same position , and likly to remain so . One of our influential journals says , tout with a few exceptions you are a set of incorrigible scoundrels ( Name ) The Times . This

      shows the itrong feeling agaiast you : Socialism is superior to Chartism , because we do not depend upon others , we rely only on our own resources . Mr . Parry . —If my Lord Normanby or any otner profound legislator was to enter this room , he would suppose we were met to congratulate her Majesty upon the blessing she has given to the country , which , la the language of the newspapers , has filled tie hearts of her subjeets with tumultous joy ; but how greviously would he be disappointed on finding that we bad met to discover the true cause of our grievances , to endeavour to throw the wealth , the Government of the country into other hands than those which now possess h . Mr . Jones has placed before you Socialism as a means of remedy . I will not attempt to arouse a prejudice

      against men whose laudable endeavours to promote human advancement I greatly respect ; I will merely examine whether the rational system of society will prove a remedy for evils so universally admitted , but before doing so we will examine if the Charter is the crude undigested scheme Mr . Jcnes represents it to be . The Charter was drawn up by iiitalligent honest men ; the names of some of the mest talented men in the country are appended to that document . Mr . Jones has said the Times newspaper has called ni a set of incorrigible scoundrels . What care we , what cares any friend of freedom , for what that mass of inooncensistency and absurdity says of our cause ? we well know the justice of our claims , we are anxious to bring into practical operation that syttam « f equal

      representation which has been the goal towards which all good and great men have directed their attention , Mr . Jones tells yon of the difiicnlties ycra will have in persuading the Houses of Legislature to listen to your claims ; « these parties look with an evil eye upon Cnartism , do they regard social communities with a more favourable aspect ? In my opinion our object is to discuss principles and not difficulties , else I could bring such an overwhelming host of difficulties in array against Socialism , that even Mr . J » nes would admit there were greater difficulties in the way of Socialism than Chartism . Mr . Jones may not be able to see tbe advantages we should attain from tne passing of the Charter . I will not pretend to demonstrata , lik « a problem of mathematics , what results will

      ensue . But if any reliance can be placed on history ; if from a review of the part , we may estimat 3 the probabilities of the future , then we must come to the conclusion , that man's happiness is made or marred by the political institutions under which he lives . We shall always find that those -who have been possessed of political power , have had the means of benentting themselves . If the power has been Tested in the monarch , there has been no distress in his abode ; tbe same in an oligarchy ; they have nourished in luxury and affluence , regardless of the evils by which they were surrounded . Rarely , very rarely , has the power been invested in the hands of the people ; bnt in ancient Greece and Rome , in Switzerland , in America , or wherever they have

      possessed political power , there have they been enabled to increase their physical comforts , to rise in the scale of moral and intellectual dignity . Place the political power we demand , in the hands of tne people , and the evils which now press upon us would no longer be suffered to exist . I do not mean that the Charter , like the wand of Prospero , would immediately produce all we are in need of j we bave lived too long under the baneful effects of class legislation far its effiecis to be rooted out in a day . Bnt this it will do—it will give nsthe power gradually to destroy all that needs destruction , and to referm all that needs improvement Mr . Jones » ay » , " We do not go far enough , « we do not

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      propose enough . " True , we do not propose aa Socialistsdoes , to do everything to turn this world into a perfect paradise . Mr . Parry then read an extract from the laws of the Social Community , stating that sickness would scarce ever intrude upon their dominions , and that poverty and the fear of poverty would be banished forever . This is indead an handsome offar , and if we were certain , it would be realised , we most be mad not to embrace it But this is only prophecy ; I too might prophecy Uve , peace , and happiness to aL . But we appeal to history and experience to bear us out ; I appeal to Mr . Jones whether every attempt of Mr . Owen or his disciples to realise a Community has not proved a failure ? The system of socialism i » a dreamy system ; ik is opposed to human nature ; It can never

      be carried into operation , unless you can reduce all mankind to oae dead level ; unless you can annihilate human passions . As well might you expect the dwarf to Btasd ob a level with the giant , as to expect a man of enlarged mind , to place himself on a level with one whose mind is scarce above the grade of an idiot ; and you must necessarily have these characters in community . Mr . Jones has implied , that if we were in power we should make no provision for religious freedom , and says , the Socialists are a living monument of persecution . I admit they are . but there Is a growing deaixe amongst all classes to do away with these unjust laws ; to allow every man to worship according to his conscientious belief . In the Charter we give to every man a Tote , regardless whether he is a Jew , Mahomedan , or Christian .

      Mr . Jones—To the Charter , as far as it goes , I have no objection ; there is not a principle hi it bat I agree with , and I have a strong desire that these principles should , as speedily as possible , be brought into practice . But though the principles of the Charter are good , other principles may be more valuable : there may be , if I may so term it , golden principles of truth , and copper principles of truth . I consider the principles of Chartism to be equally true as those of Socialism , but of less value . Mr . Parry has told you of the misery among the werking classes , and that the Charter would remove it I admit that if they had the power they would desire to remove it ; but they might be deficient of the knowledge . The Chartists , as a united body , have only laid claim to the privilege

      of law-making ; they have laid down no denned plan tor their future conduct The Socialists nave laid down a plan ; they say that machinery is the prime cause of the distress of the working class , and therefore they will put it under better direction—that competition is at the root of these evils , and they will abolish it by planting communities . Mr . Parry says that we must discuss principles , and not difficulties ; but tbe relative difficulties must form a portion of our discussion , for granting that both systems are true , that is most worthy of our support which is accompanied with the fewest difficulties . Mr . Parry states that there are greater difficulties is the way of our receiving public support than in the way of the Charter . I grant that there is a hundred times greater difficulties , bat

      we care nought for this : our plans can be carried out by a few ; we do not want the majority . Our plan , though surrounded with greater difficulties , is more feasible ; we rely on ourselves , not on others . When the Bishop of Exeter brought Socialism before the House of Peers , before tbese exceeding wise old women , the Great Captain of the age said if it waa true it was horrible . They all declared , with the mock modesty of old maids , that indeed it was very bad ; but ¦ what conclusion did they come to ? Why , the iron Duke told them that they could not interfere with us , while we kept within the lawa , without interfering with some of our most valuable institutions . We care not with what sort of an eye they look upon us , or what they Bay of us ; we shall be like that animal of

      which it is said that the more it is cursed the more it thrives . Mr . Parry has objected to our large promises —to our saying that sickness will be almost unknown , and want entirely . If we make promises , which we cannot perform , we are guilty of great weakness , to call it by its mildest term ; bat where great poverty exists , there will you find gnat disease . Remove the cause , and the effect will cease . Where does sickness mobt rage but in low haunt * of crowded cities . This evil Socialism would do away with , or greatly ameliorate . Mr . Jones then explained why Mr . Owen had not succeeded in forming a nourishing community . If Mr . Owen had failed in every attempt , that should not deter them from endeavouring to attain perfection . Mr . Owen ' s experiment at New Lanark had perfectly succeeded as an educational and commercial establishment , and had realised him a handsome fortune . The Shaker and Rappite communities in America had also succeeded . The first railroads , the first t > team engines ,

      fcc , were failures , bnt from these failures experience was gained which ultimately led t j success . Mr . Parry says oars is a prophecy not founded on facts . I assett tuat the benefit * to be derived from the Charter are only speculative , and it remains with yon to decide which prophecy ia most likely to prove true . Mr . Parry has asktd how property would be distributed in a community . If be had carefully examined our laws , he would have possessed every information on this subject . We do net want to bring the giant in mind or body to a level with tbe dwarf , but we want to hinder the giant from oppressing the dwarf . We do not want to bring all to one dead level , but , like the various notes in a piece of music , which are all dissimilar , ytt , when properly mingled , produce harmony and beanty—so would oar ' s be a system of mingled or common interests . Political power Is only valuable to procure domestio happiness , and we contend we can attain this with oar present political power .

      Mr . Pibbt said , Mr Jones has asserted that I have equally propbecied with himself . Surely Mr . Jones most have forgotten himself . I asserted that no state of society had yet realised that state of freedom from sickness and want anticipated by Mr , Jones ; and , therefore , it was prophecy . I stated that any body of men who had gained possession of political power bad always been enabled to advance their own interests . Those who wielded the power were not sufferers ; those who had not the power did suffer . I appealed to history in proof of this . I deduced from this fact that if the people of this coantry were in possession of political power , they would , as far as their knowledge allowed them , exercise it for their own benefit Mr . Jones might have complained that my proofs were not

      good , but not that I asserted without bringing proofs . Mr . Jones has humourously said that there are golden and copper principles . I think Socialism lays hold of the golden ones . The grand object of Socialism is the establishment of communities ; once obtain entrance there , aud all oth « r benefits would speedily follow . Mr . Parry then read extract * from the laws , shewing that £ 50 must he paid by every individual previously to entering the community . True , it need not be paid all at once ; it can be paid by sums as low as sixpence per week , and with such means , they can produce , in spite of our present laws , a scene of happiness and plenty . But how can the poor , wretched , ill-paid operatives of this country ever expect to pay £ 50 ?—a man , with his wife and four children , to give £ 300 to

      get into community ! Can the Spitalfields weaver have any hope of such an event ? Instead of taking his sixpence to a community , he would take it into a baker ' s shop . It is almost mockery to talk to men dyin g at their looma of the beauty and prosperity of communities ; it wonld take the average duration of man ' s lifo to pay £ 50 , at the rate of sixpence per week . You must first get political power , to enable you to get the necessary funds . Oue rule of the Association I would , as a well-wisher , press upon your Congress to alter—that which states that all other things being equal , the person who has paid the moat money shall be the first admitted into the community . Socialism puts forth a system which professes to be perfect ; they fifty that theirs is the most perfect system

      which it is possible for the mind of man , with his present amount of knowledge , to arrive at ; they make no allowance for progression . We do not profess to put forth a system ; we merely desire the adoption of certain principles , the result of which will be to give to all an equal share of political power , and there is no doubt that , with the hatred they entettiin to certain existing institutions , they would effect many changes ; but it is premature to say now what those chaDgts will be . When we have the power ; aud have collected into one focus the intelligence of tbe age , it is for them to decide upon the measures to be adopted . Changes which might be contemplated now , might not be necessary in a few years' time : we only desire the

      power to be enabled , as society progresses , to suit our institutions to its new features . Mr . Jones has admitted that the difficulties in the way of Socialism are one hundred times greater than those of Chartism : not only are religious prejudices to be overcome , but also those of private property j and by no charm of eloquence—by no chain of argument , can you persuade men who have property to aive it up to those who have none , for the sake of some future benefit You may get a few philanthropic individuals , but the bulk of those who have property will ever be opposed to you , from the Great Captain of the age down to tha £ 10 peddling shopkeeper . I think Mr . Jones will see the force of this argument

      Mr . Jones —Mr . Parry has found fault with our mode of admission to Community . I think it is but just that ail other qualifications being equal , the parson who has paid most should be the most eligible . He greatly objects tj ours because it ia a perfect plan ; the Charter proposes nothing , this he considers wisdom . I differ with this entirely . You intend to poll down the present system of society ; the plan you intend to substitute should be well discussed in all its bearings , none but fools or madmen would attempt to pull down tbeir habitation unless they were prepared with one to occupy in its stead ; we have done so ; we bave prepared ;* system to replace the one , and endeavouring to do this , Mr . Parry calls presumption . He also

      saya we make no allowance for progression , we do not say ttat oar plan shall last for ever , that there shall be no alteration , but we do say it ia the btst that our present knowledge will allow us to devise . I admitted that our difficulties were greater than those in the way of the Chartists by 1 , 000 times , but society is fart working for us ; the ttoraach of man , that most powerful of all reasoners , will come to our aid , and before it prejudice will vanish ; if by the success of oar experiment we can prove that plenty and happiness can be realized , what working man can shut his eyes to such facts J what awn will fail to be convinced ? tbey may say our metaphysics are bad , but community is good , and we will go with yon , aad they will then demand communities with a voice a thousand times louder than they now

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      demand the Charter . The very cupidity of the other classes will force them to assist us , they will see it is a profitable speculation for their capital ; we are aware that all cannot at onee enter community , that the Spitalflelds weaver cannot give us sixpence ; we do not want it of him ; bat there are others who do sympathise with us , who , by fieir extra contributions , w ill find an agylnin in community , even for the SpitaMUld * weaver . The Chartist only claims a right to vote , he does not even hint to the public how he will exercise that vote The Chartists as a body are disunited ; there are moral force men and physical force men ; they follow this leader and that leader , and have ti beg and pray for their rights to those who are interested in keeping

      them from them . Socialism only needs the raising of a certain amount of money to carry out ita object ; for this it appeals not to any one class , but to tbe benevolent of all classes . It cares not for the parliament , but stands on the truth of its principle * and their application to practice ; the man who depends upon himself is a thousand times bettor off than tha man who depends on others . Look at your dissensions with Brewster . Look at the conduct of the two bodies . We acting under one head in a conceited movement , as one united body . You split Into sects and parties . You boast of your political prisoners ; this shows your want of wisdom . I think I hare clearly established the superior wisdom and practibillty of the Social system .

      Mr . Parry—Mr . Jones has appealed in proof of the correctness of his system , to the isolat . 'd Communities in America ; I to tbe united testimony of human history . I leave you to judge , whose appeal is of tuo most value . Mr . Jones says , Communities must succeed because the Shaken and Rappltea have eBnblishmer . ti in America . But there is this great difference ; America is a new country , is almost an untaxed country , land is to be obtained fora mere trifle ; England is an old country , possessing institutions formed to suppress every attempt made on a large scale to benefit the whole community . England is crowded with a busy competitive population ; every inch of ground is claimed and appropriated . Is it fair to draw a parallel between the two cases ? I have no doubt that certain

      parties might form a Community which would benefit themselves , in the Sandwich Islands , the wilds ef Australia , or any other isolated plaee if they agreed amongat themselves : but if the system is perfect it should succeed everywhere . Mr . Jones admits that the very poor cannot be expected to get into Community until some period far in prospective . What a prospect is this for unhappy Ireland , for the millions who are in utter destitution , many compelled to exist on sea weed and fish I What a prospect for th « starving population ef England > truly may it be said , to be " fine by degrees and beautifully less , " and by degrees it vanishes altogether . True , the Charter lays down no system , but we have certain things floating in our heads . There is universal education ; this we cannot

      obtain on account of the well-paid priest , but we would get rid of the priest , or at least pay him bo as to make him dependent ; we could then get education . We call upon the people to arouse in their mighty power , and we have such confidence in the force of truth andintelUgenoe . thatwe fear not the result In agitating for the Charter , we are advocating a grand national plan-Socialism is but a small petty scheme . Only think of the presumption of a Benefit Society founded of the 16 th of George the IV ., and the 4 th Elizabeth , completely setting at rest the whole of our national grievances . Yet Mr . Jones says he glories in this presumption . He tell * you it has succeeded in America ( of which I shall say more to-morrsw evening ) and therefore it will succeed in every situation . He tells of

      their splendid Halls throughout the country . I allow that these Halls are valuable , but because they have Halls in two or three large towns , does it warrant us in believinj that these Halls will befonnd in every town of the kingdom ? Look at the usual manner in which this Hall is occupied . Lectures , singing , dancing , grammar , and other classes . Why , in these respects it is inferior to the meanest Mechanic Institution in any town in the kingdom , differing scarcely in any respect from them , save in presumption . If the Socialist had the buildings used as Mechanics Institutions throughout the country , they would think the niillenium had come ; these things are all good in their way , but they are but one of the phases in the mighty progress of society . Mr . Jones referred to SpuU in proof of the practicability

      of his system ; but in Sparta , the mind , tbe intellectual portion , was entirely neglected , all their aim was to render their physical condition perfect In this Lyeurgus partly succeeded , but surely Mr . Jones would Hot wish to put Sparta , because it was somewhat of a religious community , because they eat at one common table , as an example to us in England . In Sparta their sons and daughters were complete slaves ; their minds were in a deadened state of stuponr . Socialism paid so much attention to the body , tbat it neglected the mind . They had in no instance attained eminence in arts or literature . Mr . Jones had said much about tbeir disunion ; there was no disunion respecting the principles , and he must consider their vait numbers , and that they

      had not had the advantage of a rational system of education , and that the strong feeling induced by their necessity wonld , in some instances , overpower their reason . Mr . Jones had taunted them with their political prisoners ; had they had no respectable booksellers imprisoned for blasphemy ? it might be well for the members of a Benefit Society to talk of peaceable quiet measures , but it was impossible that a nation goaded almost to madness by distress , could talk or act without some symptoms of violence . He scarcely believed that such perfect quietude could be obtained even in a Socialist Community . It was his firm conviction that Universal Suffrage wonld become the law of the land long ere the land was studded with universal communities .

      The Chairman congratulated the assembly on the manner in which tbey had conducted themselves , and felt convinced that the same conduct would characterise them on the following evening .

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      STROUDWATER . ANTI-CORN LAW DISCUSSION . TO THE EDITOR OF THE NORTHERN STAR . Your giving insertion to the underneath , in thii week ' s Star , will much oblige the Strgud Chartists . Tne Chartists of the borough of Stroud are requested to attend a general meeting at their room , on Monday , December 6 th , at seven o ' clock in the evening . Deputations from the different districts , aro respectfully solicited to attend , to make arrangements' for holding meetings to adopt the National Petition . The following is a copy of the Corn Law repealers proposals to the Chartist j for discussion , through the defeat of the former at Easington : —

      " Regulations for conducting the discussion on the merits of the present agitation for obtaining a repeal of the Corn and Provision LiW 3 , proposed to take place between the Thrupp Anti-Monopoly-Association , and the Chartists , on Tuesday , the 7 th day of December , in the Thrupp School Room , engaged by the Association . " The chair to be taken at eight o ' clock by the President of the association . Order of discussion ;—" 1 st—The injurious effects of the Corn and Pro vision Laws . " Declaration from the chair : —

      " It is the opinion of this association , that the depression of the trade and commerce of the country , and tbe consequent intense distress among the working classes , nave been produced by the operation of the Corn and Provision Laws . " 2 nd . The benefit te be derived from a repeal of tbe Corn and Provision Laws . " Declaration from tbe chair : — "It ia the opinion of this association , that if the Cora and Provision Laws were totally repealed , trade would revive and the condition of the working classes be materially improved . " 3 rd . The policy of demanding a repeal of the Com and Provision Laws , separate from all other measures . « Declaration from the chair : —

      " It is the opinion ef this association , that is order to obtain a repeal ef the Corn and Provision Laws , their exertion will be more effectual , and their object more speedily accomplished , by confining their attention exclusively to that subject . " These declarations will be read and discussed separately , and as they express the present sentiments of the Association , a Chartist will be first called upon to speak . When both parties have spoken to a declaration , it will be submitted to the meeting in the form of a resolution , by tbe Chairman .

      " RULES TO BE OBSERVED . " Every speaker to address himself solely to the Chairman . " Only one person on either side to speak to each declaration . " No speaker to be mere than half an hoar in his remarks . " No speaker to make use of any personal , offensive , vulgar , or blasphemous language . " " Any speaker acting at variance with the above rules , and persisting therein after the Chairman has called him to order , not to be allowed to continue bis remarks , nor to speak again during the discussion . " The following i * the reply of the Chartists : — "TO THE COMMITTEE OF THE THRUPP

      ANTI-MONOPOLY ASSOCIATION . "Gentlemen—I have to inform yon , the Committee of tbe Stroud Charter Association do not agree to your regulations for discRssion . " The question for discussion we accept to meet you on Is : ' Whether the abolition of the Corn Laws or the Charter , will be most beneficial to all . ' " " Should the above meet you approbation , please to appoint your time and place of meeting , for both Committees to make the requisite arrangements . . Waiting your reply , " Gentlemen , " I remain , yours respectfully , " Signed on behalf of the Strend Charter Association , " H . Paitchard , Secretary " November 29 th , 1841 . "

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      On Wednesday last , at the parish church , Mr . J . W . Anningson , chemist and druggist , Burnley , to Miss Winifred Thirkell , of Barkstoa Ash , near Sherburn . On Tuesday , the 30 ih ult ., ai Topcliffe , by the Rev . Mr . Hawkins , Mr . J . Outhwsite , of Baldereby , farmer , to Miss Harper , of Ripon . Same day , at the parish chnrch , Pannal , by the Rev . T . Simpson , M , A ., vicar , Mr . P . Palliser , postmaster , of Harrogate , to Mrs . Harper , of Wellington Terrace , Low Harrogate , and daughter ef the late Mr . James Craven , of Beckwith Shaw . On the 26 th ult ., by special license , at Roseamal lis , Mount-melliek , Queen ' s County , Ireland , Wm . Tetley , Esq ., late of Bradford , in this county , woolstapler , to the amiable and accomplished Miss Caroline Carter , of Mountmellick .

      DEATHS . On Sunday last , after a short illness , aged 70 years , much and deservedly respected , Mr . William Whitaker , of Greenholme , near Otley . Same day , aged 41 , after a losg illness , borne with Christian patience and resignation , Mr . Richard Hargrares , wine and porter merchant , Kirkgate , Bradford . On the 27 th September , at Warsaw , in Poland , of typhus fever , Henry , the younger son of Mr . Thomas Tingle , ( for many years a steel refiner of Sheffield ) , in the 20 th year of bis age . He was a youth of great promise and abilities , and his untimely "fall ia the pride of youth and beauty" is deeply regretted bf all who knew him . His remains , interred on the 30 th , were attended to their

      u last cold earthy bed" by most of the British and Foreign residents . On the 22 nd ult ., in Dublin , General Sir Thomas Molyneaux , Bart . The deceased was promoted , by the brevet published on Tuesday , to the rank of General in ibe Army . On the 25 th ult ., at his residence , Eeclestonstreet South , Eaton-square , London , Sir Francis Chantrey , R . A ., the celebrated sculptor . * ' On the 22 nd ult ., in bis 73 d year , suddenly , in London , Colonel Cuyler , the oldest colonel in the service , having been longer in it than the Duke of Wellington . He was accustomed jocosely to say , that there were three great men born in one year , the Duke of Wellington , Napoleon , and hbnself ; but that one of them had not been so fortunate aa the

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      _ THE NORTHERN * i ' A R . 5

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      ¦» A Blessed Temper , —The Times of Wednesday eontains a statement of a man who went home and Cot his throat for vexation ; because the magistrates f « ? ned him £ 5 for beating , with a stick , a boy who kfcd insulted him .

      Now On Sale At All The Publishers, Price Thbebpbnw, Embellished With A Splendid Emblematic Design Of Hercules Destroying The Hydra, Or . Interpreted, The People Destroying Corruption,

      Now on sale at all the Publishers , Price Thbebpbnw , Embellished with a splendid Emblematic Design of Hercules destroying the Hydra , or interpreted , the People destroying Corruption ,

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      woman now in Newgate for attempting to destroy themselves , no less than five perse ns were taken to the Mansion-house , and twenty-five placed before the sitting magistrates at Guildhall police-office , all charged with a similar offence . Since the magistrates have determined to commit not a single attempt at suicide has been heard of at the police-offices in in the city .

      Attempted Suicides In London. — Within Two Menths Previous To The Committal Of The Man And

      Attempted Suicides in London . — Within two menths previous to the committal of the man and

      Marriage.

      MARRIAGE .

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), Dec. 4, 1841, page 5, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct731/page/5/