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HOUSE OP LORDS . —Fbiday , Fzb 4 . Petitions were presented from Scarborough and other places in favour of the total repeal of the Coin Laws . On the motion of the Marquis of Nobmanbt , the Buildings' Regulation Bill and the Boroughs' Iniprovcmea : BUI passed through committee , and were ordered to h-j read a third time on Monday . Oa 'Le motion of the Duke of Wellington , the Appropriation Acts' Amendment Billjpassed tirough committee , and was ordered to be read a third time en Monday . ,
lord MO . n'TEagle , pursuant to notice , moved for the production of certain papers relative to the appointment of Mr . Eden and Mr . Percival to the Exchcquer-JSUl-v&ce , and for other papers relative to the late -transactions . The Noble-Lord Baid that his object 'was to afiord information as to the ¦ working of the office , uid to bring the whole business of it distinctly before the country . — Ordered . iord BEOl" GUAM said that he "was acxions not to moke his motion for papers relative to the sf ' z ' are of the Creole in the abaence of his Noble and Learned Friend , the Lord Chkf Justice of the Quesn ' s Bench , and , as his Noble and Lesraed Friend -was unable to attend to it that day , he wiutd , with their Lordships ' permission , postpone his motion until Monday . TLeir Lordships then adjourned to Monday .
Monday , Feb . 14 . The lo 3 D Chaxcelloe took his seat on the woolsack * t ire o ' clock . Af ' . cr some petitions in favour of a reps 2 l of the Com laws had been presented , Tee Marquis of Norjia > 'bt presented a petition froni the Mayor and Town Council of Birmingham , prajii-T th 3 t the czrrring cst tLe provision of the Ksgc '^ tiL-n of Buiidirgs" 33 D 1 might be cor . fided to the To'trn Council , instead of to certain Commissioners , as hzd r-i-cn proposed in the BiiL The petition rs prayed to be h , i . Td by counsel on the subject , at theJbar of their lordships' House . The Bill wa 3 then read a third time and pa& ^ eiL
Tee ilarquis of NoiiMAMii" wished to impress upon the Xoble Duke opposite the necessity of drawing the attention of his colleagues in the Government to theprepriety of introducing a Biil for the draiffii ^ e of towns into the other House . ' The through Imp ; o Yemenis' Bill was read a third time , and passed . On -he motion of the D-ike of Wjelli . ngtox the Appropriation Actis' Amen iment Bill was read a third time and passed . lor 1 iJHOUGHAii moved f-: r the production of the correspondecce reliun ? » o the American ship Creole ; but after a shcri debate , the motion was withdrawn , and the House a ^ jenmed .
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2 > l&n . dsy , February 14 . The Speaker tesk the chair a little before four o ' clock . A great number of petitions both against the Corn Laws generally , and against the Ministerial measure respecting them , were presented by different Member ? . Captain Boldero presented the Ordnance estimate ? . On the motion of Sir T . Fbeemantle a new writ was ordered for the Southern Division of the County of Salop , in the room of the Earl of Darlington , now Duke of Cleveland . Dr . Bowbing postponed his motion with respect to the quarantine Iaw 3 to Thursday next Mr . Vernox Smith gave notice of his intention to call the attention of the House to-inorrow on the subject of emigration . Mr . D'Iskaeli gave notica of his intention shortly to move the blending of diplomatic bodies .
On the motion of Mr . Shaw returns were ordered cf the mortality of infants in the North Union Workhousa of Dublin . Sir D . Roche begged to ask the Right Hon . Gentlejnan far the satisfaction of the large holders of bonded corn and cattle—( great laughter)—when it was int . nded to apply the new duties , sheuld his measure ever r-ass the Hcuse— { laughter)—to provisions now in bond . Sir R . Peel ucderstoed the question to be—snpposiDg the measure should pass—in what time was it
preposed to apply the new duties to corn bonded in this country?—( hear , hear , from Sir D . Roche . ) He ceuld not sea why the new duties should not come immediately into operation on the passing of the Act . As to cattle , he was not aware of there being any in bond—( laughter )—bnt perhaps the Hon . Bart , was ref-rring to a former statement of his ( Sir R . Peel ' s . ) What he meant was , in reference to other articles cf provision besides corn ; it was his opinion , and that of his colleagues , that the prohibition ougLt not to exist —( bear . )
Jir . Laboucuere wished to put a question to the Right Hon . Gsntlonian the Yice-Presideut of the Board of Trade , respecting theTegulating duties of the Colonies , which he was bringing before the consideration of the House . It wa relative to the importation of corn from America into Canada . The House was aware that at present the importation of corn and flour from America into Canada was duty free , and the question he wished to ask was , whether he was to understand the effect of the schedule of duties laid on the table of the Huuse , to be to put a dnt 7 of 3 s . a quarter on American flour imported from America into Canada . Mr . Gladstone said that the resolution which -had been announced to the House wa 3 unquestionably one which would raise the question of placing a duty of 3 s . on corn imported from America . Tee question would be raised , and he w « . uld then state the intention of the Government
Mr . LiiiOurHEEE wished to ask the Right Honourable Baronet iSir R . Peel ) ¦ whether it was the intention of Government to allow the importation of iijur in bond . Sir R . Peel was aware that Irish Members took greet interest in this subject , and remembered the opposition they give last Session to the proposition in volved in tbe p . eseut question ; but he was bound to say , tbst in case vi a change of the Corn and Provision Laws , he could adopt no special legislation ; for though it was a provision exporting country , no exception could be made in her favour —( bear . ) Mr . Roebuck gave notice to the effect that when the question of the importation of provisions from the Calonits came before tbe House , he would take the sense of the Hcuse on the question , whether or not it was competent for the House to tax the Cuicnies . ( Hear )
THE CORX LAWS . —ADJQVRSED DEBATE . Sir R , Peel now moved that the House j-esolve iise ' . f into a Committj © of the whole House , and resume the debate on tue duties affecting the impoit of foreign corn . Mr . GREENS having taken the Chair , Lord JOHX RUSSELL said , Sir , I believe I should in no way diminish the difficulties of tb . e task I have un-. iertaken , or obtain greater power for my arguments , if I were to commence my address te the House by preface or introduction . Therefore , 1 shall at once call the attention of the House to the position in which they now stand . Tbe question of tbe Corn laws has been submitted to us by the First Minister of the Crown . In proposing the scale he has laid before us , he has not onlj acted upon the authority of the Government over ¦ which ha presides ; but he has alro informed us that having collected the opinions of those most interested in agriculture , he found there were but very few of that
class who were net in favour ef some modification of the existing corn law . We , therefore , now stand in the atuavion of considering the Corn Laws with a view to alteration by almost general consent—( hear , hear . ) The cry is no longer that of surrender—[ cheers . ) The question is , as to the terms of the continuation —( hear , hear . ) Sir , if that' be tbe case ; we are prepared to condemn the present Corn Laws as unfit to be longer continued on iae statute book as impt for the purpose tox which they have been enacted , cf regulating the trade in corn ; I say ihen , -without fear of contradiction , that it is of the utmost importance that you should make that change upon sound principles : that you should eudeavoui to make is give aa much as possible of general satisfaction ; especially to that distressed portion of the community , of whose condition we have heard such lamentable accounts from both skies ol the House ,- and laifc ' y , that it should be such a law that it would not ba liable to canst ; an immediate
fresh agitation of the question , but that all who are to live under that law , all who have transactions , in that most important of all articles of food , which comprehends , in its various classes , the whole community , that they should be aware of the state of law under which they are to live ; and be prepared to state that for a time at least , it ehould net be disturbed —( hear . ) Sir , I think it necessary , however I may be obliged to trespass on the indulgence of the House in giving you my reasoss for opposing , in this early stage , the measure ef thb Government , t ) slate as briefly as I can the general principles which should guide our legislation upon this subject I do so , because although in one poir . t I should agree with the principles laid down by the first Minister of tbe Crown , there are other points on which
I entirely differ from him . I suppose it will be agreed that with respect to corn , as with respect to everything else , the general principle is one tf sot legislating at all upon the subject—( hear , hear . ) The general principle with regard to all commodities is , that the producer or the seller endeavours to produce and to bring to market that which is most likely to find a ready and immediate purchaser ; and tbe purchaser , on his side , gees to market to obtain the goods of which he is most in need , the beBt in their quality , and the cheapest in their price , therefore legislators have no place on the subject . The community themselves are far batter judges than the wisest Senate on the matter . The community themselves , in their Beveral capacities , choose ¦ which are the
aiticles of which they stand in need—they choose from whom they purchase them , aad those articles which : iffjrd profit . The producers themselves are the best judges ot the articles they shall produce , and of the markets to which they shall bring their productions . I therefore think your legislation is unwise , and the effect of this legislation of yeura has been to cause the occupation of certain lands , and the employment of many labourers upon them . You should endeavour to protect the labourers in your own country from an excess of taxation . But , Sir , I come then to agree to so much of protection as might be asked under these two heads . If it should be found in Committse—if it should be found , in discussing this matter in Committee . th 3 t there are undue preferences in the country
i mentien , I think they should be removed . If , however , it should be proved that there are no such prefereniies , if there be encouragement given to agriculture by this law , that should likewise be taken into consideration , but tbe = Government in proposing- the plan now before the House , take a wider range ; they laid their principle far more wide ; they laid down the principle adopted by Malthus , which principle was acted upon by the Legislature of this country on a former occasion . You ought to make yourselves independent of foreign nations—; cheers . ) Now that is the principle upon which the present law is framed—that is the principle upon which the proposition of the Right Hon . Baronet is framed , and which tends to prevent by prohibition othtr nations from sending food into this country . I
confess , therefore , although this proposition may ba excellent to some remote and sequestered slate—although is might salt a state in Mexico , I cannot conceive how it can be applicable to a great commercial country . Supposing it were desirable , in what manner would you establish it in practice ? You must recollect it is not merely with respect to corn . ThB Right Hon . Baronet suited tbe other night that they had had for four years sin imputation of 4 . 300 , 060 quarters , so that it might be said that tbe people of the country were dependant Ui > on foreign countrits for upwards of one million of qua : t : ra a year . "With respect to the other commodities the employment of the people engaged in manufactures as much depends upon the supply of the raw material as food . If the Bupply of cottcn from
America were stopped , or tbe supply of foreign silk , there would be not less than five millions of people tieprived of employment Thera would be seven millions of your people , if you go on this principle , who wtre dependent upon foreign nations for their food , and who cannot but continue to be so dependent—( hear , hear )—so that it is evident that any attempt which you have made to make this country independent of foreign countries has failed , and every such attempt most necessarily fall —( hear . ) The oaly way in which I conceive this object of the law to be wished for at all is in the case of war with foreign nations . I cannot conceive greater time of war
than when this country was struggling against Napoleon —( hear , hear . ) Bat , during the time of that war , two niiUioa quarters of corn were imported in one single year —( hear . ) That importation was greatly diminished in subsequent years ; but still at that time this country was admitting foreign corn , there being ao law to prevent the importatioa , and the people were living partly on the produce of other nations . But is there any chance or probability that you will have a * greater war thin that to contend with ? But if thera was , still I say that resting as you are upon commerce and manufacture , the supply of food would be in danger ; but it would cot be in the danger that is apprehended —( hear , hear . ) Therefore , the remedy should be the very
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reverse of that which is proposed to the House—( cheers . ) The remedy proposed to the House as taken from the Right Hon . Gentleman ' s argument , is to endeavour as much as possible to protect bur native productions , and to make such a law as never to have any supply except from the northern parts of Europe . The Right Bon . Gentleman in that argument said that the countries with which we have our commerce are nearly in the same latitude as this country is , arid that consequently , their seasons were nearly the same as ours . In other words , the Right Hob . Baronet endeavoured to maintain that as a necessary consequence , when those countries had abundance of provisions , so would this country have abundance , and when those countries had a scarcity so also we
wauld have a scarcity —( loud cheering from the Opposition Benches . ) A 1 that argument went upon the supposition that we should have a law such as tbat wnich exists at present , which confines the supplies of this country —( hear , hear . ) A real remedy could not be had In that way—our supplies Bhould not be restricted or confined to those countries alone , but instead of having our supplies in those countries , and in tho North of Europe exclusively , we should be supplied by the North of Europe—by the countries adjacent to the Black Sea , and by every other country all over the world . Our commerce should be extended all over the whole world for tho purpose of giving us that supply of food of which we so greatly stand in need—( hear , and cheerp . ) Sir , the proposal now made to the House by
theresolution proposed by the Right Hon . Baronet opposite , maintains the principle of a sliding scale , and it maintains the principle of a high duty—( loud cheers from the Opposition Benches , and counter cheer ? . ) In objection to that sliding scale , the first objection I take to it is , that a high and prohibitory duty , I shosld say , always forms part of that scale —( hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) I can understand a scale not exceeding 10 s . or 1 . 2 ? ., and going down to 4 ? . or 2 s ., or Is ., but I find that whenever Honourable Gentlemen speak of a sliding scale , it always contains a high and a prohibitory duty . What is the first duty in this proposed measure ? The first duty is 20 p . upon all foreign wheat—( cries of hear , hear . ) I wish now to show first " , that that is a prohibitory duty
— ( cheers . ) I have looked at the papers which contain tho latest information the House has had upon the subject . I have looked at those papers which were presented to the House by the Right Hon . Gentleman , the Vice President of the Board of Trade , and also I have looked at the papers which were presented to Parliament , last year , by a gentleman who was expressly sent to the North of Europe for the purpose of ascertaining the precise state of trade there—a gentleman who had communications there not only with official persona , but also with merchants and persons in trade there . I was surprised at first that the Right Hon . Gentleman ( Sir Robert Peel ) in the course cf his speech , ; having collected as he did , his information from that Gsntlenian ' s papers , should have made an attack upon that
Gentleman ; but when I looked at these papers my surprise cea ^ d , for I discovered that it was merely another proof of the discretion of the Right Hon . Gentleman- — ( laughter and cheering . ) I find that the price of wfeeat in Dantzic is 35 s . ; that the charges which they say must necessarily be incurred , and of which I need not go into details , woulti be 4 s . 6 . 1 . to 5 s ., making in all 10 s . 6 d . to be added to the original price ; tbat as the original price at Dantzic , when brought from the interior of thecoantry , would be 35 s ., they say , with tho addition of 10 s . 6 d ., it would be sold in Eagland , making the price of 45 s . 6 d . What have we to add to that ?—( cries cf ¦ hear , hear" )—20 s—making C 5 s . 6 tl ., when the price here is 50 a ; being cf couraia prohibitory duty—( cheers ) And in the 3 ame way , at
Odessa , it is stated in the return , that tbe price will be 26 s ., and freight 10 s . ; of course , we must add to that some charges which we cannot take at less than 5 s ., there would be « ls ., without the profit of ih « inercbmit . Therefore , with respect to these lower sums , you see there shall be a prohibitory duty of 20 s ., and that when corn is 53 s ., there shall be a duty of 18 s . ; yet in all these instances it would be shown that the duty would be prohibitory . That when the price of grain is 55 s . and 56 s . —the price at which the Right Hon . Gentleman says it ought to be—when that favourite and choBen . price is the one , and nobody can tell why that should be the price—( hear , from tho Opposition benches)—there would then be a prohibitory duty on foreign corn ; true , the Right Hon . Geatleman
says , and he says most truly , " I think . 20 a . is quits sufficient ; " and no doubt he is perfectly right—( hear . ) I think those duties of 45 s . and 47 s ., as we had in one year when corn was 39 s ., aro odious , and ought not to be endured . I agree with the Right Hi n . Gentleman , and I think that in 1821 , if they said 283 . will exclude foreign corn , we don't waot a door stronger than to keep the corn out If the door be itself strong enough , we have no occasion to put on iron plates and locks ; therefore , we wil . be satisfied with a duty of 20 * . — ( hear , hear . ) But I must and do hope that we have arriTed at a period in this question when we have a greater claim than what is entertained in the plan proposed by the Right Hob . Gentleman opposite , which , thongh it makes the old system appear rather lees
odious to the country , in reality is nothing but a mockery—( hear , hear . ) I have mentioned the price of corn at Dantzic and Odessa , and if we reckon the average price of corn at 45 s ., the duty of 20 s . raises it to C 5 s . ; therefore , with respectto all foreign countries , I maintain that tnia duty of 20 s . is prohibitory ; it is no ; possible for me to say , though I have endeavoured to ascertain it , at what price duty ceases to be prohibitory . As the price increases , and the merchant gets a better price , the duty fails . I should think , according to the statement I have ma » Je , that it could be imported at the present price , which is 6 s ., but it appears to me that corn brought from Danizx will bo 45 s . Cd ., which , with the prufit * it requires , could hardly be sold at the present price of corn , namely , sixty-one
shillings . Up to this point you have a prohibitory duty . Now , Sir , I need not Bay that a prohibitory duty strikes at all the principles of trade . I do notmean to say every trade of the country , but at all the principles of trade . It is this that has caused so much mischief in the Corn Laws as they at present stand . The merchant buyB an article in foreign countries , it may be at an advantageous price , or cot according to the market ; and after incurring great expense , and &ft = r making himself liable to a large sum of money in order to bring articles from foreign countries , he finds , on bringing them to this country , a prohibitory duty staring him in the face , offering an insuperable obstacle to his trade by this impediment thrown in its way . ( Hear , hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) Thus is the sliding scale in its nature inimical to trade . Now , what has been the consequence during the last year of some of these duties ? It is stated very well in two pamphlets written on this subject , tho one by
Mr . Hubbard , and the other by Mr . Greg . In one it is shewn that , in June Iatt—nay , I think on the 5 tU of July , that the price of Danlz c Wheat was 48 s . a quarter , and you might have obtained it out of bond at £ 4 s . or 563 . a quarter . It was not admitted on the 5 th of August , when corn had risen to 60 s . ; yet fctill it was not admitted the speculator had reason to believe that he could obtain a better price for it In the beginning of September , only two months after the time when it might have been sold at 48 s ., it was sold for 70 s ., thus being an addition of 22 s . per quarter—( hear , hear , and cheers ) Was that a benefit to the English farmer—( loud cheers)—or was it a benefit to the landowners of this country?—( cheers . ) No , it was given to the foreign speculator or holder of corn , thus bencfitting them alone , without any benefit whatever to the consumer—( loud cheers . ) The corn was admitted at an enormous price without any benefit to the revenue or the consumer . Mr . Greg states— -but I think it is an over calculation that he has made—but
he states that the money paid to the holders of corn , and to the growers in foreign countries , was not less than £ 6 , 000 , 000 . As I said , I think that is over the sum , but I should think noi ; less than £ 3 , 000 , 000 or £ 1 , 000 , 1 ) 00 have necessarily been paid in order to obtain tbe benefits of this sliding scale—( loud cheers . } It was a- tribute paid to the sliding scale , but a loss to tho country—( loud cheers . ) Sir , I have another statement which I have received to-day , which shows another evil of the sliding scale . You say tbat you will take the duty according to those averages . The Right Hon . Bart did not say how he would settle the averages . He said they shall not be altered , they shall be taken much in the same w * y as heretofore . Now , take the averages as you may , there
is one effect inherent , they do not tell the quality of the corn—( hear . ) During the present year , as has happened in one of the former years , a great portion of the Corn was very much damaged ; some persons , well acquainted with agriculture , say not less than a fifth of the whole crop okEugLmd . The consequence has been a very great lowering of the price of corn in the market . But do the people get their bread at all cheaper ?—( cries of hear , hear . ) You hove a duty now cf 26 s ., perhaps instead of some lower sum , because it has come to that degree of cheapness ; but that degree of cheapness is not cheapness to the consumer of bread , because he is paying as much as when the average was much higher . Now , a gentleman who has written on this subject says , that in the beginning of 1841 , in the month
of January , the average price of Wheat was Cls 2 d ., that in January 1842 , the average price was also ols 2 d . You would , therefore , enppose the price being the same , the averages being the same , the duties being the same , that the people could obtain their bread at the same price . Is that the case ? far from it . The price cf the best town flour at Mark-lane in the first four months of 1841 , was 55 s . a sack , and in 1842 it was 61 s . asack , making a difference of ne lees than 6 s . in the sack of flour , in that Back of Sour , from which , the bread is admitted to be made , while the averages and the duty which you impose , havenot altered a Bingle shilling . Now that is a fault—that is a defect , which you could not get rid of even if you were to change your system
of averages twenty times , and to introduce 150 towns more than now proposed to be introduced —( laughter from the opposition . ) It is a fault by which you are charging the people with improper duty , by which you are making tbe poor labourer of this country pay a high price for his corn , and at the same time are excluding foreign com from this country—\ hcar . ) Sir , another defect which is likewise manifest in this scale , or in any scale , is that you require foreign com at particular t ' , mes , when you are unable to obtain it by that exchange of articles which accompanies a regular trade . You have prohibition for two or three years . You then find that a large supply will be required . The price rises enormously—as I have shown you the price rises 22 s . in tbe course of two i&onttu . You have
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many millions to pay , and you have no means of meetr ing the demand by sending out goods . You have not a regular trade . You are obliged to send but part of your stock of bullion to pay for that com . The Bank of England naturally and inevitably contracts its ^ issue ; and that contraction takes place whilst the whole commercial world is in a state of embarrassment—( hear , bear , ) - ^ -when your manufacturers are unable to give employment to their artisans , and when those artisans are paying increased prices for the articles of sustenance ^ There must , no dtjubt , be seasons In which corn will be much higher than at others , t admit that ; aud t do not think you can have a regular low price , or a perfectly steady price , at all . But this I do say—this I do assert , that if there are difficulties placed by nature
in the \ fay of such steadiness of price , you have by your bad legislation aggravated those difflcuIties-- ( Cheera fromthe Opposition ) You have heaped embarrassment upon embarrassment , and piled -. difficulty upon difficulties—( hear . ) A steadiness of price should be the object of your legislation * and that is totally incompatible with a prohibition at one moment , and a free admission at another —( hear , hear . ) Then ¦ with respebt to frauds ; I wish to say a few words upon that subject . I cannot think , however , with the Right Hon . Gentleman ; that while there are now very serious frauds , there will not also be very serious frauds under his scheme ; because , pub it as you may , the raising of the price is in every instance to be
accompanied wish a lowering of the duty , and to the extent of the reduction ycu necessarily hold out a temptation to fraud . : In the year 1830 , I think , a Committee of tho House sat and investigated and exposed a great number of frauds that had been .. committed with respect to tfce averages , and they advised what they considered a remedy for these frauds . You had , however , in-the last ; year—you had , in the . years 1838 and ; 183 a frauds existing which were notorious—you bad . ; £ he markets raised 9 s . a quarter in a single week , all for the purpose and with the contrivance , of obtaining a reduction of tbe duty . That at least is a bad system of legislation which gives encouragement to fraud and gambling speculations , when you ought to have an honeat ard wholesome trade . But there is another and most serious
effect of tho sliding scale Which I have touched upon before , namely that it confines ycuc supplies to countries in the Northi of Europe —( hear , hear . ) Ycu have a deficient harvest , a scarcity in this conhtry , anil a rise in prices—you then send immediately orders and ehipato Dantzic , and to all tho ports vyhich communic-ite with us in the Baltic , for , cargoes of wheat , in order to take advantage of our low duty . That corn comes in , and you are to remain satisfied with that supply . But , supposeany merchant should say , "the prices of corn from the Baltic are too high . 1 know there is a market for Britiah goods in North America . I know that if their corn could be sent here in exchange for our goods I could dispose of it , and that the transaction would be profitable in both ways . ( Hear , hear . )
But if he were to send an order to America , the duty may have risen by the time that the car ^ o has arrived , and then your prohibitions stand in his way ; then your prices may have fallen , your duty may be hi ^ h * and he will find that for two or three years that cargo is left upon his hands , and he is a loser by the wholetransaction . What a defect must that be in the law , whieh does not permit you to go at all to the most favourable market , which docs not permit you to go to the United States for your supply ^ - < hear , hear . ) Indeed , with respect to our commerce witfi foreign nations , there seems to be nothing more desirable than that we should endeavour to retain and to improve our trade with America ; and 1 should say to you . most emphatically , "Preserve the markets of theUnited States , and of the
Brr . ails . Great quantities of goods manufactured by us tnve been imported to these countries . By adopting comniwi rules , and by adhering to common : sense , you w . ohM retain , improve , and enlarge almost indefinitely , those markets—( hear ,. and cheers . ) But no , you say ¦ " the present laws ¦ yron't do , we must alter them , and make a tieVy contrivance , by which we may shut the door against the United States , and refuse to admit their produce to our markets . I have here a statement which I have taken from Buckingham's work on America- —an important extract—on the extent and means of production of the state of New York alone , as regards the growth of wheat , and which I shall take the liberty of reading to the House , [ the Noble Lord read the extract in a low voice ; but the substance of
the quotation was , that this fertile territory extended from the Lakes in the North to Ohio in the South , embracing an area of 280 , 000 square miles , being twice oa large as the kingdom of France , and six times the fiizj of England . It contained 188 , 000 , 000 acres of land ; and was irrigated by , or branching on the Ohio , the Wisconsin , and the Mississippi . Within twentyone years its population has increased to tho number of 3 , 000 , 000 , arid it was calculated that by the year 1850 it would have sjvelled to . the aggregate of G . , 000 . ] Now , proceeded the Noble Lord , this great population , this vast extent of fertile and arable land is renioved from this country to such a distance , that on the authority of Mr . Curtis wheat could riot be exported from those districts to our ports for less than froni
4 3 s . to 47 s . a quarter ; so that the American could not be considered a competitor by the English farmer , at least while there would be no just grounds to regard the American farmer as such , the people of that country would be great consumers of your manufactures—( hear . ) I do believe that ( i , 000 , 000 of people inhabiting so fertile a country would naturally prefer the pursuit of agriculturo to manufactures —( cheeraj . I believe that they would be glad to receive your manufactures in exchange for their food and expoita—( cheers)—for however the manufacturers of the United States may be advancing , they cannot yet give the bulk of the people sufficient occupation , and it is probablQ that they will not do so for a long time —( hear . ) You have it in your power to establish a commerce of an extensive and useful kind—
of giving food to the people and employment to the poor and in future years of enabling them to avoid that horrible distress whichhas prevailed eflate—of bestowing comfort on the inhabitants of this kingdom while they consume the products of distant countries—( hear , hear . ) But , instead of this , you say "We have the power of ; regulation in our bands and wie will use it to stop this great trade . We have the power in our hands to ttop this accumulation of human comfort arid prosperity , and because we have the power , w . u undertake to place a barrier against its "— ( loud cheers . ) Sir , such would be the effect of your continuance of the sliding scale . The objection was ; that they could not avoid deamess in certain years , either , by a fixed duty or by any other fixed plan .
Webave a right . Sir , to reject the plan at present proposed for one more consonant with the maxims of trade- —more consonant with the deductions of science —and , above ali , more consonant with the petitions of our suffering population—( loud eheers . ) Opposed then , as I am , Sirj to the plan of a Bliding scale , and thinking that any plan founded on that basis ought to bertjected , I shall ^ if that plan be also presented ; be ready to discuss the subject with those who oppose the laying on of any duty at all . I think that a moderate fixed duty might be proposed witfiproprietp ; but what I propose , in the present instance , is the rejection ef the plan proposed by her ' Majesty's Ministers—( hear , hear ) If it should be found that there are no exclusive burdens on agriculture —( hear . )—I should then
aay , make such a provision of a duty , as shall prevent a sudden change , and prevent the falling into distress of great masses of agricultural labour . But if there should be , as I believe there arc , peculiar burdens on agriculture , then impose a duty as moderate as you possibly can , in consideration of those burden ? . Do not let us raise a single shilling- ^ not a single farthing above what is absolutely necessary . If there is , as the Right Hon . Gentleniaa states tbat there is , an advantage in submitting to restrictions for the sake of the general interest , this argument , to be unconquerable , must be supported by good and sensible reasons—( hear , hear . ) Now , Sir , for a fixed duty we have , for a sliding scale it ia not possible to have , such reason ? . It may be said in favour of a fixed duty that it has been
recommended at different times by persons of great authority—( bear , hear . ) The first recommendation is froih Mr ; lyialthuS ; who , in 1815 , proposed , after a certain time , that the duty should become fixed at 10 s . His proposal for a duty on foreign corn was that it should bo first 20 s ; , and fall la , year by year ^ til l it come to 10 ? ,, where it should remain . Mr . M'CuHock , another advocate for a fixed duty , stated that , instead of the burdens ot agriculture being equivalent to a fixed duty of 10 s ., that a duty of 5 s . would be a full protection—( hear . ) The Committee of 1821 , which comprised many persona eminent in agriculture , among others , the Hon . Gentleman the Paymaster of the Forces , Sir T . Gooch , and many persons of nil classes and al ] opinions , also recommended a fixed duty . Sir Robert Peel expressed bis dissent .
Lord John Russbll—Does the Right Hon . Gentleman dispute that ? Tho report begins by expressing a doubt whether there can be any solid foundation for agricultural prosperity expected by abstaining as far as possible from legislative interference with agriculture , either by protection or prohibition of importation—( loud cheers . ) The report then goes on to state that agriculture had flourished most when a iree importation of corn bad been allowed , ( The Noble Lord proceeded to read various extracts from the report of the Committee alluded to ; from which it appeared that the Committee recommended a modification of the existisg law , which produced much iiiconvenience from the sudden manner , in which the ports were opened under its enactments , and tho consequent sudden influx of corn into the market , and suggested a remedy that ; whenever the poits were open , eorn sheuld be admitted at a Bxsd duty . The reading of this extract was followed by loud cheering and counter cheering . )
Permit me to observe , that although the Committee recommends a fixed duty , I cannot but think that the person who drew up the report , and who so well explained and understood the principles of free trade , arid so anxiously advised an adoption of those principles , must- when he recommended it , have considered the adoption of a fixed duty as a temporary measure , as the best probably whichhe could obtain at the time—( hear , bear)—bat must have looked forward to the ultimate adoption of the great principle which he bad so distinctly laid down in the commencement of the Report , and bate considered that tho time would at length arrive when all protection and all prohibition should cease . ( Cheers . ) One tf the objections to a plan of a fixed duty is , that it would , in times of scarcity , prevent an adequate supply from coming into the market . When I had the honour to propose a plan for a fixed duty to the House , I stated my belief that the imposition of a fixed duty would in a great measure pravent
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this occurrence of scarcity by securing a constant and regular supply ; but , at the same time , I stated there might be various methods of preventing a fixed duty acting in «\» cb a manner in times of BcaTclty ; and one of the remeoJes wai '' -to give to the Government the power of entering" the ports nridei'certain circamstances . I think that may be better than the view taken by the Committee of 1821 . It may , psrhaps , be better that at a certain point ; 73 s . or 74 ? . there should be no dnty . ( Great cheering from the Ministerial side of the House . ) I say that is matter of consideration . I proposed before that in case of Bcarcity there should be a discretionary power allowed to the crown , and I now say , as an alternative , that it should be considered whether in the case of high prices , the duty should not cease .
( Hear , hear . ) The Right Hon . Gentleman stated the other night , that it would be necessary for the purpose of the Tithe ^ Commutation Act , that ^ the system of average should be kept up—( loud cheersJ ) But what he stated more particularly was , that if you had corn very cheap , there would be such abundance from foreign countries , that then tbe English agriculturalists would be mined by the competition ; and he stated if you have corn very dear , then the keeping up of a fixed duty would be an evil and a grievance . With respect to thefformer of these objections , I think the protection to the farmer is the cheapness —( cheers)—of the abundant year . Then with respect to dear years , I am ready , and always ; was ready to say , that I think a greater advantage would be civeri by it to the foreign
merchant than to the English agriculturist . There is another part of the subject upon which I have not said a word , and Which the Right Honourablei Gentleman dismissed at the commericement of the address to the Hous&—I mean the distJess that prevails ib . the country . That that distress ; exists to a great extentthat it exists in Leeds , Manchester , a great part of tho cotton dittrict , and part of Scotland , is now by no person denied . It was stated in the strongest terms by the Hon . Gentleman who seconded the Address ( Mr Beckett ) The RigLt Hon . Baronet states that he does not propose his present corn bill as any remedy for that distress- —( hear , hear)—nor does he think the ' . Corn Laws > as they at present exist , are at all answerable for that distress . Now , Sir , I should not say they were
the cause of the whole of this distress , but they tended very : consiaerably to aggravate it ; and I think that a , great relaxation of your Corn . Laws would tend greatly , though not , perhaps , immediately , to mitigate that distress—( hear , hear , hear , arid cheers . ) What has been said by persons conversant with the cotton trade in Manchester ^ in a circular which they addressed to the wholesale houses in London , that while the sale of cotton exported , profitably or riot , has increased during the last year , the sale of these goods fur domestic uses had decreased at the rate of 3 . Q 0 O bales per week . They therefore conclude—and the conclusion is a natural one , and borne out by all the other evidence on the subject—that the want of means in the labouring classes to purchase clothing and other articles
as well as food , his been tue cause of the diminished consumption—that so mush greater part of the earnings of the labouring classes than hitheito have during the last two or three years gone in the purchase of bread . Now , this ttitenient is supported by all those who have communicated with the labouring portions of the community , and by their own statements in various parts of the country . I myself presented a petition tonight , from persons who , though sometimes able to procure some bread , were unable to cqifiume sugar at all i and , with respect to other articles , that the consumption of them was greiitly diminished . Well , then , if you had a free admission of foreign corn , one of the consequences would be that the numerous classes able to purchase food at a cheaper rate would be
enabled to consume manufactures ; and another consequence would be that the manufacturers would find a better market for their goods , arid that they would send these goods in exchanee for the goods sent to th : s country . Therefore , whilst I do not say tbat the whole of the distress is caused by the Corn Laws , or would be totiliy removed by the repeal of those laws , I do say thtt they tend to aggravate the digtress , and that you would mitigata that distress by a relaxation of those laws —( hear , and cheers . ) The Right Hon . Gentleman supposes us to be in a position similar to what has occurred at other times in manufacturing districts when distress was as he thinks , eccasibned partly by over-production , and . partly by other causes . TheRight Hon . Gentleman supposes that
over-production , the operation of joint stock banks , and some other causes contributed in different degrees , and tbafc all the remedy is in the reduction of the excess , and a return to the former state of taings , arid the former amOutt of production ^ Now that is not the view which I take of the present state of things . Although it may be that the production of goods , has been somewhat in excess , yet if that had been the causey of the distress , the distress would have passed away , and the evil would have cured itself —( hear , hear . ) The Right Hon . Baronet thinks that part of the evil is in the excessive building of houses in the manufacturing towns , and the consequent increase of the population ; and that ; another part is in the improvement of machinery . Sir ^ I carmot say whether the first maybe in some part a cause of distress ; butI say that with regard to machinery , tie whole history of our
manufactures directly contradicts . his ; . opinion —( hear . ) Whereever improvements have taken place in machinery , and means have been formed ef lessening the amount of human labour necessary to produce an article , new markets have bren created or increased —( hear , hear )— -and thus the whole number of persons employed has been increased at the same time and not diminished —( hear , hear . ) And what is the case of those great towns , such as Manchester , Leeds , Macclesfield , and Birminghaui ?—( hear , hear . ) They increase year aftar year , as the ingenuity of our counirymen from time to time adds improvement to machinery —( hear , hear , hear . ) If the improvement ef machinery decreased omployment , the case would have been the other waiy , and population would have decreased in those towns-Sir R . Peel made some observations which were not heard in the gallery .
Lord John Russell— Sir , I certainly did think the Right Hon . Baronet gave in , in some degree , to the opinion that machinery decreases employment It is an opinion which has been stated by several who support his views of this question , and I think it is very dangerous . ( Loud cries of "Hear , hear . " ) I thought that he mentioned the improvement of machinery as amongst the causes of the distress . But I believe that machinery would increase still more , and go ori increasing , if you did bnt encourage freedom instead of imposing new restrictions . A great portion of the people think that some relief may be obtained by repealing those laws . If you cannot repeal them totally , as the great majority of the petitioners t a this House against the Corn Laws demand , I do advise you to make some
material advance —< , 1 ear , hear )—and shew that you are willing to meet their wishes , as far as is consistent with other iriterests—( hear , hear . ) I advise you to make some material advance that will shew you have sympathy with the Bufferings of the people —( hear , hear . ) I agree , Sir , that it is perfectly impossible to hope that any good , or that any alleviation whatever of the general distress which prevails in the country , can arise from that measure , which is only made to look a little better than the old measure—( cheers )—a measure which perpetuates the vicious principles already < xisting—forbids any improvement—encourages speculation , and prevents your commerce with the north of Europe , the Black Sea , and the United States . Such a measure , Sir , will do nothing to relieve the distress
of this country . Whatever you do , I advise you not to a ? ree to such a measure as that . If you think -that the Corn Laws are founded on sound principles—that they tend to promote the interests of the country , do not mind the sinister evils they may cause , but if you do make a change , do so for some purpose ; do not JBnovate without you innovate for some good purpose—( cheers . ) Lord Bacon Baid that the frowafd retention of custom was sometimes as bad as innovation—but Lord Bacon never dreamed that there might be a measure of tbia kind proposed—a measure which would have all the evils of " froward retention of custom , " and yet contains within it all the mischiefs or evils of innovation —( hear , hear . ) A measure which does not improve your commerce ; and , therefore ,
casnot alleviate the existing state of distress—a measure which confines your trade , arid which was proposed by the Government having first excited hopes for a long period—hopes , which when apparently on the point of being attained , a measure Is proposed in reality standing upon the very same principles arid producing similar results as those of the present law- —( hear , hear . ) Such a measure , Sir , I consider ia that now proposed . I cannot think you will legislate en this question to any purpose ; unless you in the first place reject the measure now proposed- —( hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) if you reject that , you may hereafter consider to what extent : you may set free your trade in matters of food . You may hereafter consider how far you will concede to the wishes of the
people—it will be open to you to take every view that may he proposed to you to consider . Y , ou may consider the agricultural interests and the quantity of land brought into cultivation . You may also consider the burthens which affect agriculture ; and I wish to say here , Sir , that if there be any odium ia advocating the imposition of a duty—from that odium I . do not wish in the slightest degree to shrink— ( hear , hear . ) If you adopt the system now proposed , though I do not believe that in the present civilised state of the people of England , you will not have such tumults and outrages as have taken place in former centuries ; yet I apprehend that you will produce growing discontent in the public mind . Act , therefore , so that it shall be said that you have legislated on well considered views , and for the benefit of the whole community . But I desire
now to impress the fact upon you , that all commercial men and all indifferent spectators have unanimously condemned the aliding-scale as the worst basis of legislation with respect to provisions , and that it ii perfectly well known to the community at large tLat this principle ha « been thus generally tondemned . How can you believe that the public can be persuaded after euch denunciations that the proprietors of land atone can take impartial Tiewt on this subject ; - that they who are chiefly interested should , contrary to the experience of all mankind , take clear and disinterested views on the present occasion?—( hear , hear . ) The people will not so reason . They will , I apprehend , attribute , however unjustly , that you have been biassed in favour of those interests with which you are connected , and in favour of a Bjstem under which some members of the Government ' are said to hare increased their incomes of late . ( Laughter and hear , hear !)
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Anything would be bettft . " than legislation of this kind Be it error , ff yon will eMe ,. - lflws which may savour of the ^ norance ofthe 15 thiisd f ^ a centuries <) n mattea of trade , arid you may sustais t * l ' odium arising Jn con . sequence . But if you allow J » to he said that the Par . liament of this couniry--thafc fie xTouse of Commons have decided the question in whic& the food of the whole community is involved on a partial bast , " , and to main , tain your own advaDtages . ifc will be impossible but that the Legislature shall suffer in the estimation of their country—( cheers . ) Such , Sir , being tho views I take i < the present crisis , I only hope that yon may come that decision on this question which will show that yoa have large and enlightened intentions with respect to the future state of trade and commerce— ( cheera )—that
you have considered agricultural , as well as all other in . teresta , and that having so considered , you will pass a law , whicX when it is passed , men wi ^ l look on as a blessing to the country , and will thank you with gratitude and ; fervoar in their hearts as wise and benefleient legislators—tcheers . ) Taat such may be your decision I mos * ' eordially wish , but 1 cannot think that you can legislate thus unless you proceed upon principles en . tirely different from those submitted to you on Wednesday night I therefore beg to move ¦ " that this House , considering the evils which have been caused by the present Corn Laws , and especially by the fluctuations of the graduated or sliding scale , ia not prepared to adopt the measure of her Majesty ' s Government which Is founded upon the same principle , and is likely to be attended by similar results . " . ¦ ¦¦('¦
Mr ; Gladstone Baid , the real question was , not which side of the House could collect the greatest array of prejudice and passion in its support ; but whether , looking to what is practically beat ,- the House ought , under all the considerations involved in the subject , to accept the proposal of his . Right Hon . Friend ( Sir R . Peel , ) or adopt that proposed last year by the Noble Lord . Now he was prepared to-contend that the evils attributed to the existing Corn Law were to be attributed to that law only in a limited degree , and he should further contend that the evils themselves were very much exaggerated . He further contended that the advantages of a fixeddiity were grossly exaggerated , and that the objections which attached to such a duty ori its own merits were perfectly insuperable . The
sliding scale was said to have been chargeable with the evil of leading to serve fluctuations in price , but similar fluctuations had taken place in countries where no such law prevailed . The Hon . Gentleman quoted the prices of rye in Prusaia at different periods , in order to support this view of the case ' ¦ rye being in Prusssia used as the general food of the people in about the same proportion as wheat was used in England . This , he said , proved that the fluctuations were to be attributed to the difficulty of adjusting the supply to the demand , rather than to any inherent evil in the law . The Hop . Garitleman then went on to show that at 64 ? . the Noble Lord and Sir R . Peel would , like great planets , be in conjunction as far as respected duty , but as the Noble Lord would not reduce his 8 ? . duty to
Is . until it reached 73 s . or 74 s ., surely his plan held ont far more temptations than that of his Right Hpr . Friend to tamper with the iaverages for his Bight Hor . Friend's proposal was to reduce gradually and not suddenly , like that of the Noble Lor
which was triumphantly referred to by the advocates of a repeal of the Corn Laws as one during the whole of which a free trade in corn practically prevailed , it was true that a free trade practically did ; prevail during that period , but nevertheless the maximum duty of 20 s . was also in force the whole time . It was said that if we took the corn of other countries tbejr would take our manufactures in return , pf this he would cot have Hon . Gentleman to be too certain . How stood the case with Russia ? Was it because we would not take Russian produce that Russia would not take our manufactures ? The fact was this—we
exported to Russia to the value of two millions per annum , and we imported from that country over six millions in value . In addition ; to this Russia had recently published a new tariff , by which additional restrictions were placed upon the . importation into that country of British-produce , which shewed that other countries were much more favourable to an imitation of us in our former restrictive systtm , than likely to follow us in our modern system of relaxing those restrictions . Th « i Hon . Gentleman concluded by vindicating the measnre of the Government aa a great improvement of the present Corn Law , and , therefore , gave to it his hearty and conscientious support—( hear , hear . )
Mr . C . Wood-said , it was out of the question to pretend to say that we should not be dependent on foreign nations for corn , when , for the ljist ten years the produce of the country was insufficient to supply its population and when it was evident that the evil must inerease with every future year . We must therefore be dependent in a great measure upon foreign supply , and the only question was as to the way in which that supply could be obtained with the least possible injury to any class of the community . : The Hon . Gentleman then entered into a lengthened argument , interspersed with several calculations , in order to show that a fixed duty was preferable to a sliding scale . Mr . Liddell aaid as far as his experience went ho believed the measure proposed by the Government would gratify riot only the agriculturists , but also a great portion of the manufacturing and commercial interests . It had never been assertid on the Ministerial side of the House that this country could ba
maintained wholly independent of foreign supply ; but it had been held that in a good average harvest the country could nearly supply itself with food , and when it could not do so , the system of averages enabled them to obtain a sufficient supply without risking the prosperity of the agricultural classes of society . They knew from experience that they had little to expect from concession . When Catholic emancipation was granted in the most liberal manner , it was said that the reason of granting so liberal a measure was that it might give the fullest satisfaction . It gave satisfaction , however , but for a short time . Again , in the case of the Reform Bill , it was said in defence of the extent to which it went , that the people Would not be satisfied with less Whatwasthe result ? The Noble Lord who brought it forward had subsequently more trouble to defend hU " . finality " , than he ever had to npeet the rotten boraughs . For the sake of conciliation , therefore , they should not depart from that which was sound ii principle . ; \ :. -i ' ; - " .. ;• - '' : ¦ ; ' . ¦ - . 'Z .- ' . " ¦ . '¦ ¦¦; " . '
Dr . Bowring said that the inferences drawn from his accounts of the consumption of the necessaries of life in Pnusia , by the Right Honi Baronet ( Sur B . Peel ) were erroneous ; but even , if true , and if there was a greater consumption per head in England , that was no reason why it should be reduced . The fact was , however , that the condition of the people of England was , year after year , becoming worse , while in Prussia the condition of the inhabitants was progressively improving . He would prefer the scale suggested by Mr . Christopher to that proposed by the Government , for under the latter plan we could never have corn admitted in any quantity except under veij rare circumstances , and concluded by a warning to tbe landed interests not to deal too harshly by the people who paid more in proportion to their means than tbs landed proprietors to the support of the expencesof the state . ' - ¦ ' ¦ ¦ ¦'¦ .. - . - ¦ ' ;¦ ¦ ' ¦ ¦ : .. - ; - ., : ¦ - . ¦¦¦ '¦ - ¦¦
Mr . Febrand ( amid loud cries of "divide , divide ") said that in rising to address the House he felt tbat he had awful responsibility to discharge , ¦ and under which he was placed . He had been requested b ; the working classes of the north of England to come do wa to this ; K ouse and defend them from the persecution of their oppressors . In th& last session of Parliament he had ris * -u in his place here on behalf of the working classes of this country , and he had been granted a patient hearing . He hoped be should receive the same treatment at their bands to-night , and he would riot only , on the part of himself , but also tost of the working classes , feel very grateful to them—( hear , hear . ) It was his lot , froot his youth , to reside in the middle of a manufacturing district ; and one of
the proudest acts of his life was to respond to the call which they had made upon him to stand forth in theii behalf , and endfiavour . to burst asunder the bonds . of their oppressors ^( hear , hear . ) The manufactures witb whom he had the honour of being acquainted denied the allegations which were contained in the petition 1 which were placed upon the table —( hear , bear , and cheers . ) The working classes of the north of England assert that they had never been applied to , in the maw . to agree to those petitions . They fay that these petition ! were an absolute fraud upon them , as well asa decides insult to the good sense of this House—( cheers ) . TW assert tkat the signatures to those petitions were obtained by the foulest means possible—they wf
obtained ty making a mere mockery of religiw —( hear , hear , and cheers . ) And the anti-Con Law League manufacturers have exacted the signatnrej of the working people with such threateniDgs , . aw such oppression , as are an outrage upon the liberty « the subject—tcheers and laughter . ) Before be cratw the notice of this House , he would allude to the JfoWe Lord , the Member for the city of London , who W asserted within the walls of this House , that thu ¦»»• a question which it was the duty ot the coun'rf . " decide , and not the Legislature . He ( Mr . Ferrana ) thought that the Noble Lord had himself WV ** *?^ the country ; and here ins bis aniwerH- ( greatcneerint' » He ( the Noble Lord ) hackappealed to the c ormtrj «
the fixed duty project , aid the Bight Hon . iJM 0 ° " ( Sir B . Peel ) had appealed to the country » P °° " £ Bliding acale-Hcheers . ) It was truer that the Vow Lord had taken his seat backed by a majority of nine and these , it was « aid , were dead men—( langhter ) , bat the Bight Hen . Bawnet had taken his seat in W * House backed by a majority of ninety-one living » P ™" entatites 6 ! the people—( cheers and laughter . ) r « : haps the Noble Lord , boiling with rage under the ignominy of hU defeat , might assert that that mAJ '"* was obtained by fifty different false statements , oat what said Lord Morpeth when he started in J ^*! In that place , lest there should be wy mistake oetwe «» he » Majesty's G * verament then and the Rig" ™» Barbnet , the First Lord of toe Treasu ^ , Lord Morpew ( Continuedin nrseventhpage *)
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HOTSE OF COilMOXS . —Feidat , Feb . 11 . ilr . Arkwright took the o ' atks and his seat for . Leo-Biinsiej . On tha motion cf Sir G . CiEP . K , the following Memb = ra -wcrs nominated the Select Committee on Petitions for PriTate Bills . — ~ Mr . Sirutt , Mr . Rjberb Clive , Mr . Rlca . Jilr . V'lliers Stuart , Mr . Wrightson , Mr . G Cavendish , Mr . Coinpton , Mr . Brathcrton . Mr . Pakington , . Mr . Forte 3 . Mr . T 7 m- BecketS , Mr . Brimszon , Mr . Walker ,- Mr . George Phiais , Mr . Bell , 31 r . Gi bson Craig , the O'tocnor Don , Mr . M'Kenzie , Z < Ir . Horsman , Mr . Eliot Yorke , 2 Ir . KemKe , Mr . ^ lionby . Sir Jvbn Tarde Buller , Cavtiin Jones , Mr * Thorn-sy , Mr . Birn&by , Mr . Chalmers , Mr . Tatton Egerton , Mr . SL £ HsfieM , Lo' -d Wors-Isy , Mr . Henry Eaillie , Mr . Eilward Buller , Sir Wm . Heathccte , Mr . Hope Johnstone , Mr . 3 IoT 2 aii John OCanctrli , Mr . Packe , Mr . George Wm . Wvod , Mr . Evans , Mr . Home TJrnmmond , Mr . Pirker , Mr , Marshal . and Sir Charles Tk-. u-ls .
Pt u ^' . zis were presented in great numbers , " praying for tic tots ! repeal of the Corn Laws . Sir C . Xapieb . asked thn Right Hon . BironU \ Sir R Peel ) Trhetherhe had any objection to lay before the House a copy of the instructions given by Sir R . Stopford to General Mitchell , General Jackson , and CapL Stesrart , after thesnbmission of Mthemc * . Aii ; also the instructions given by Lor' ' . Ponsonby to Gtneral Jackson and Mr . Wood ; likewise , if any . correspondence ha 3 iaken place between the British and Tu-kish Governments , relative to ths amelioration of tbe iaha . bitants cf Lebanon , as was promised by the allied powers .
Sir B . OBE 31 Pzbi . biiq that the instructions had beta searched for but could net be found . He did not think that the production of the correspondence relating * t 3 the amelioration of Syria would farther the Gallant Admiral's object , if produced , atnJ he ( Sir Bo > ert Peel ) must , therefore , exercise his discretion in withholding it ; bat he would assure the Hon . and Gallant Admiral , that ' every effort on the part of the present government would be made to cause the Porte "to fulfil its engagements with respect to the amelioration of the condition of its subjects , and in granting the papers moved for -would be but defeating tbe object which the gallant cinccr hadin visw . —The subject then drcTvoecL
Mr . Mahk Philips intimated to the House that he should for the present witbdnwhia motion fora " Copy of the letter from Mr . Amory to Lord Paliaerston , dated August 2 Stb , 18-11 , together with its accompanying papers , and of tha ccntspondencs which followed thereon between Lord Aberdean , Lord Quiring , Mr . Amory , and M " . Kinder . " The Honourable Member said that whenever it should be his intention again to bring the matter before the House , he wouia give full notice cf the same He assured the House that vrhen Jib gave nolics last night ha wa 3 not at all aware that the Noble Lord to whom it related iLsrd Ash-J > mt Jn ) had sailed—ihear , hear . ) Mr . Tox iLiXLE moved a return of the number of jury cases in the fixst division of the Court of Session , from the 1 st day of January , 1832 , till the 31 st day of July , 16 il ; specifying those in which the late Lord Prfcsident of the Court of Session prtsided , and those in which any other and what Judge presided .
Sir J . Gsaham resisted the motion , and said he trusttd that the debate of last night would not be repeated . " - - Mr . FOX Matle consented to withdraw it Sir . WaIIET expressed his surprise at the readiness With which the Hon . G - -atlemvn consented to withdraw his motion , and said it was calculated to impress tbe public mind with the conviction that the side of tbe Honse to which he belonged * as in " -error , and tbat the other side possessed all the truth—thear , hear . ) He hoped tha right Hon . Gentleman would persist In his notion . After a few words from Mr . Roebuck ,
Sir B . Peel said the grounds on which the house had refused the motion were , that in departing from the usual course a reflection would be cast on the conduct and character of two judges . The mstion of to-night contained the same reflation as that of last night , and the Hon . Gentleman feeling that , had consented to withdraw iV - Mr . O'Co ^ . XELL thought it was a little tt ^> ha d to refuse the returns sought , vrhen the Hon . G ; clitiiian had removed from this motion that which was objected to in that of last night 2 Hr . Hops Joh > so > ' defended the character of tbe Tjord President , and said that whenever he was absent from his post , it was from illness , or causes that imghi affect any man in a similar position . The House divided . The numbers were—For the motion 113 ; Against it , 130 ; Majority against the motion , 26 .
Mr . MlL > 'E 5 caLed the attention of the House to tbe case of those persons committed to the House ox' Correction at Salford , for non-attendance oa some pLce of leligious worship . This conviction , he said , was harsh and unjust in the extreme , and was founded on an old act of Jam&s , which was altogether oppose . ] " to the spirit of the present time . He therefore would c ^ U ¦ opon tbe Right Hon . Baronet to exert his-legislative ability ts repeal or amtnd so unjust an act . As it was necessary that he should conclude with a motion , he would move that a . humble address be presented to Her Majesty , ^ raying that she would be graciously plea ^ erl to order * copy of the commitment of W . D -3 rden to the New Bailey , Manchester , by Clement K-.- ^ c « . aad James Royds , at Rochdale , for non attendance at church durin ? 'divine servics on the Lord's day . The question having been put from the chair ,
Sir JAMES Gba . Haji said he was the-las . p ; rson to vindicate the practice of magistrates wbo , when a party was brought before them charged with one offence , proeeeded to convict him for another , upon sjme en . ictmant almo 3 tfallen into desuetude—ihe ^ r ,. hear ) Such & practice was altogether un ; , y = t , arid ought to Y >« put an end to . Neither did lie stand there to ray that the exactioH of such penalties & . « th = se was in accordance with the spirit of the age . He did not thmk that temporal penalties were proper mc-ans t : > enforce the performance of spiritual and personal dnties . His H _> n-Friend had called attjntion to - . be existing penalty under the Uniformity Act , but it must be remembered that . by the Act of Toleration , tb&se dissenters from the Cbnreh of Eagland who t ^ ok the oaths of allegiance aa 1 supremacy were exempted from their penalties . To persons not dissenters , however , the Toleration Act
gave bo protection , and they were consequently still liable to the penalties of tbe Act of Uniformity ; so that he really believed that on Wednesday last aU Hon . Members of the House who were members -of tho Caurch of England , and all Hon . Members who were dissenters from the Church , on failing to shew that they hid taken these oaths -would have been legally liable , and might have been convicted in penalties far non-attendance at church—( hear , hear . ) He thought that mica a state of tha law ought noi to continue ; but he felt , navertheless , that to touch the Acts of TJaiforsni : ? and Toleration would require from the Govern -ueut very grw * caution , and he -was not disposed to &taie without dfiiibs&tion what was the best course to be pursued . fiOVCTer , he would not shrink fr « m stating that , if theGNrrerament should be able to llnda suitable remedy , tbey woald feel it their duty to apply it , -niia ^ vsr it Bight be . IheHoajs then adjourned .
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Feb. 19, 1842, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct586/page/6/
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