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Northern Star (1837-1852), 15th July 1848, Edition 1 of 2, Page 3, *m*rm Saritament*

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      Honseof CoiSS oaTh 'm 6 a ? ry R ; form . ^ * e «« t a wttSrt . SS" ™" the ^ D 0 W ** b «^^ 2 ? WifafcWBrtll ' ^ ««« ti »» i »^ la ^ A *^^*""** * * P ^ Won h aving the twAi i 5 ' whlcUhe said be oould . not concur The i « 5 . £ a ! K ? J ! £ . 3 = 2 = S «^? . r-r s , r V « f ? ^ , ! preSEntea P ^ oas from South Lamfcsth , Oaniberirell , and Manchester , in favour of the motion of ibe h -n . m . mbEr for Montrose . Mr Clat preiented a similar petition from the Tower ixatniets

      llr Uchk expressed a hops that the house would come to attrition to night , and that hon . members , bearing thu in mina , would regulate thsir speeches accordingly ( 'Hear , hear , ' and a laugh . ) The Aw » n * K » D £ Bi « . _ Tfe 8 order of the day £ ! LT ~ «* «¦ tbe debate npoa the moti 011 for p « - v- r £ m . ^ read - < ' Bivide , divide . ' ) in * toa ' A ° ° ' ^ tionic S t ^ policy of adjourn SL ^^ ° " * Wla ™ CTenin S . & »¦ " »« HO intention ot throwing a alar npoa the intentions ! and motives of the hon

      . member for MoatroM , but he had suspected » w the rea ' ° n tbat the ln & ar duties were aiwnt to expire t 6 at toe € ebate bad begn adjoarne ( j The eusar dntlei kad explred- ( hear ) -3 ad the debate migh . as neU have come off on Friday night . ( He « r , near ) At the same time , he admitted that the hen . member for MentrS 5 e had onlj yielded to the necessities ot the case . Three very remarkable speeches had beea Qe . ivered when the motion had fceen brought forward , andtha assertion had beea made by all the three speakers that this movement wss not founded or based

      ort any popular support . One of those hon . gentlemen ( llr D . sraeli ) had said that tha movtment was erroneous and not popular . At the Earns time it was founded OS EUCh justice and expediency that he ( Mr B . Osborne ) would give his Tote for amending the present representation of the country , ( Cheers . ) Aad , although there was a difference in the wording of the petitions to tbe house , they all united in sayisgthat the present representation ef the country was inadequate . ( Hoar . ) The three ipeakers to whom he referred had ridiculed the de . tail *; bat not one had directed his arguments against the principles of the motion . Even the hon . member for Buckinghamshire , for whose speeches , when not directed against himself , ho alwsyB felt the greatest admiration , and why by bis unUrinj energy had

      almost sailed galvaaism ont of the defuact principle * of Toryism , had not expres ; -ly guarded himself against the belief that he was not opposid te further progretB . In Ehor t , during the course of this d&bate It appeared to him that the finality doctrine had disappeared with the old itago-coaches , and the only qmssion was whet should fea the far * of the new vehicle , and who should ba the drivers . Hs would a « k the house in all fairsess whe . ther the plan the noble lord had foreshadowed was not more vague and Indefinite than that of his hen . friend 5 Tbe noble lord shook his head and 6 &id , ' Tfe do not object to reform , feat this is not the proper time , ' Why , in 1755 , waen Mr Pitt fntrodsced his meaiure of reform ' , the answer of Lord North was , « This is not the proper time '—( hear , kear)—and when , in 1790 , Mr Flood

      introduced his motioB , Mr Pitt , who had then succeeded to the Tressary benches , told Mm , ¦ This is not the proper time '—{ a laugh)—and one bon . member of that day got up and said , that se far from being the propsr time , h < s recommeadsd the hon . g-ntlemaa to pastpoae his motion for & century . ( A laugh , ) The noble lard , when he brought forward his motions in 1822 , 1828 , and 1 S 31 , was also answered by the Jfinister of that day in the saae cuckoo-note , ' This is not tht proper time . ' For his own part , he conceived that no measure was more fitting than this at the present time , when they had just had so many indications of a coming tterra on the hoT ' ion . They had occupied a considerable part of the tessien in passing measures for the security of the Crown and government of the oountry , and they

      were bound now t » pass other measures of a healing nature , The noble lord ought not to give a vagus ana Indefinite answer , but ought to lay upon the tibia a bill to amend the nadonsl representation . If they could say the taxation of the country was what they could wish , that the Eichequer was fall , and that parliament was a caeck upon ths public purse , then he could understand the objections of the nebln lord ; but he called ¦ npon the house to recollect that the great complaint of the ministers of the crown was , that bo far from wlsbisg to increase the pafelic burdens it had been pressed upon them by the house , and when fea considered the enormous buidea of taiatioa that pressed npon the oauntry , and that all their resources were failing , he thought it wag an argument why they should reform the

      constitution ot that const . His hon . friend the mem . ber ftr Backiagbamsnire had said that the taxation fead remained stationary fines 1827 , aud quoting , ai he said frem memory , had stated that the r * vsn « e of the finan . eial year ending Januiry , 1828 , wag £ ^ 9 , 500 , 080 ; bat he ( Mr Oiborne ) foand that the ordinary revenue of that year , eftrr dedactiBj the balsnces and bills , was £ 54 , 800 , 000 , being a mistake of £ 5 , 3 ) 0 , 000 , He couW sot discover feow his hon . fritnd made out that taxation had not increased , unless hs excluded the iccoma tas from Ms argument . But he wa » surprised to * t his ton . friend took the year 1828 as a proof of his argument . If he ke . i taken the year 1835 , after the pasting of the Bsform Bill , he would haTe found that the estimates for

      the ermy , navy , ordnance , and miicelleaeous votes were ealy £ 11 , 123 . 000 , whilst , in 1848 , they were £ 23 , 315 , 000 . la the United Slates the taxatian per head was oni y 9 s . 7 d ., ie Bassia it was Ss . 93 ., in Austria 11 ° . 6 d ., in Prussia 12-. 4 i ., in France £ l . 4 s ., bat in England it was £ 2 . 12 s . 6 i . The whole taxation of tbts eountry amounted to £ S 0 , Q ( t 0 , QQ 0 , without including poor-rates , chorcb rates , boroagh asi county rates , which amounted to ili . COO . OOO more , making in the whole £ 70 , 600 , 090 and upwards . And what did the working classes pay is iadir * ct taxation " On tea for every 29 s . they paid 10 s ., en cj&e Bs . s on sugar 6 s ., on soap S 3 ., on bear 4 i ., on tobacco IS ? ., and on spirits 14 s . He would ask them whether the agitation and public lecturing against taxation were not tie effect rather than the cause of tbe

      public discontent upon that subject ? Bat he found a Eimilar system pursued by the society of Old Bondstreet , far in travelling through the csuatry he had met with paid lecturers having letters of license from tbat iociety . ( Hesr . hear , ) He assnred the house , howsvar , that he would not enter into an examination or discos-ion of the abstract right to vote . That would do very well for book p ro run and men of that description ; bat he would confine himself to the policy and expediency of the question—how far they should txtend the suffrage . Many advoaated Universal Household Suffrage . He was not one of those . ( Hear . ) The institutions of the country having grawn up under a limited suffrage , he thought they could not at once give Universal Suffrage with safety to the proper and geaeral representation of

      the country ; but at the eama time , being sure that the representation conld not remain as it was , he would pro . > sse a residential test , which would girs the suffrage to a great body of edacated mechanics . The hon . member for for West Surrey had hardly treated those men fairly , when he said they knew nothing of the theory of government , ( Hear , ) The education of that elsss bad been advancing , whilst that 01 ' the upper classes bad remained at a fixed point , and he was sure that the great bedy of them were as fit to vote as the great body of members in that heuie , ( Hear , ) Upon what did the aoble lord in 1822 , base his motion ! Upon tbe increasing intelligence and education of the people , aad he instanced the year 1770 , when there were enly four circslating libraries in London , and contrasted

      that year with 1 S 22 , when there were 100 ; 900 In the pro-• rincet , and 1 , 500 book club * . Bat nowt » the increase of those numbers they most add tie creation « f those seminaries of instruction , the mechanics' iastKates , and If the Koble Ior 4 was consistent in his argament in 1822 , ie was bonnd to make a farther advance in tke right direction , and to admit that great body ef men to the exercise of the suffrage . ( Hear . ) Every man wonld agree that the riprtsentailon in th » t home should be a repre-( eatation of tfes interests , property , wealth , and , to a certain extent , of the population of the country , and that he thought woold be best attained , not by a hoasshold , tut by a residential test . That , too , was the old form « f voting in this country . In Sergeant Glanvllle ' s Committee , which was acknowledged by a learned Whig

      peer to be one of the msst IeBrned that ever sat , there fcdng npsn it Lord Coke , Selden , and 5 oy , who wu strongly imbaed with monarchical principles , and who was afterwards Attorney-general , they : came to a resolution that ' All men , being Inhabitant hoaBeholders resident within the borongh , were entitled to a vote as well as freemen . ' ( Hear . ) Tfaeyjwould find that thesame vstem was advocttedin 1797 by Lord Grey : and is 1830 ta » Duke of if arlborough brought into that nousea bill of » rery 5 weepic B kind for the Payment of Membars . the Adm ^ Eion of tbe Ciersy , / or Electoral Dlttneti , and Sniveml Suffrage , and be believed the noble lord and jome of his colleague * voted for that measure . One Cbinet Minister ( Sir J . Hobhouss ) eipreued a terj itrong opinion on the subject , and et a county meeting la Middlesex , in 1830 , proposea a resolution to thii » 5 ect— ' That no House of Commons wonld deserve the confid ence cf the peopla txntll the right of tvSttge 1 be extended to all householders paylog taxes and parochial

      rstef—until each member be chssen by a proportionate bod y of electors , parliaments be materially shortened , Ud ucb elector , without hope or fear of private loss or Zin be allowedto votebyballot . ' A ni yet it had ended byto p lacing the part of Jeremy DIddler . ( A Hugh . ) BatTu fhe ' prfsent session the noble lord had infcodaced t bill for Ireland which gave the tenant at will at _ 8 t . rear the rig ht to vote . For what reason , then oould tterV . fase it to the £ 10 tenant in tfato country ? His hon £ Sd the member for Backb > gbDmin !» said he looted upon the laffrag * « pttoleg .. ( H « r , hear ) He ( £ Oiboree ) differed from his hon . friend for he btUeved that the small boroughs loeked upon it « perooMte . He really thought there were not . bore £ Tency gestlemea In that hottie Wb . 0 hid not paid prt « J SirllT and drawn check , npon their bankers for ttcir ^ la Parliament . And « ltk whom did ?' Jj * ° S originate ? A Whig p «* had «« cnbed it to the wK «« y % = 4 laid tt w . i . Beee . « r 7 » te «» t thettae k £ nt \ mUn& " & counteiTaUlnj expedient to the

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      of WeBtbETT , in 1573 . ( A laugh . ) A great satirist had said , 1 Those who wonld seek ta gain the Totea of English tribes , ' Most add to force of merit force of bribe . ' That was written sixty years ago , but it was more applicable bow . If the house were eincere in their desire to put down tbe system of bribery , the course was aim . pie . They had enly to extend the area ef voters . Now , let them look at the condition of such districts as Keneicgton . The fcoese could not be aware of tbe monstrous inequality of the present system . The district he had mentioned comprised KensingtoD , Chelsea , Hammer , smith , Fulham , and Cuiswick , containing an area ef 8 . 540 acres , or fourteen square miles , with a rateable

      value of £ 4 S 4 . 212 , a population of 110 , 000 , and a voting population of 18 , 345 , —but they returned no member to that bouee ; whlis : the boroughs of Cslne , Dartmeatb , and Hidhurat , with a voting population noder 309 each , returned one member each , Bad Harwich and Thetford , with a voting population under 200 , returned two respectable membtrs each , who ought not to sit for euch small places . ( ' Hear , hear , ' and a laugh . ) He had been astonished to hear the neble lord deny tbat the government was carried on for the benefit ef the aristocracy ; but he did 10 , and he quoted Tacitns . The hon . member for West Surrey did soaleo , and he quoted Dod to prove that there were many men in that house who never had a grandfather . ( Load laughter . ) WeH , he had consulted Bod also , and he found that there were

      still forty-two boroughs returning members to parlia . ment , which were Hnder local influence ; thirty-two under the direct influence ef peers , and that thirty-three members were returned to thathouseunder the directinflnence of Tory peers ; so that these peers returned aa many members as Loadon , Dublin , Edinburgh , aad Glasgow , and Other large places . The censtitntion ef the house , according to Dod , consisted of six marquises , eight earls , twenty-five vifcountg , tHrty-Eix lords , siity . one baronets , and seventy-one bod . misters . ( Laughter . ) According to Dad , there were 831 members of tbat house under tbedlrrct influence of the aristocracy . He attrcked the systern , not the men ; but they bad now arrived at tbe pass when they onght to say , that the power of the aristocracy haB increased , is increasing , and ought to bs diminished . ( Cheers . ) Tbey had heard something of family petitions—they were somewhat sneered at ; but he would ask what was the whole

      system of government but a snog family party ! Why just lock at the construction of the present cabinet . With one exception they were all connected one with another by blood and marriage—they formed a snug fimily party ( laughter ); and the ricketty bantlings which they produced were te be aeconnted for by the fact that the parents of them were all relatioas . And then , look at the sabalierns—at ths composition of the Treasury tench atthat moment . Why it wbb filled with tciono of the nobility—cheqnerad here and there with a Liberal statistical representative , possibly from & large town which he conld never represent again if hs remained with them . ( Laughttr . ) But when they caught ono ol that elass how did the Whigs treat thtm ! Just as the gipsies did stolen children—they 6 i-: Sgured them to make them pass as their own , ( Loud laughter . ) Ths noble lord had talked of ihe regret he wonld feel If he should sea the day when the Howards and the Stanleys were excluded from office .

      Lord J . RussSLir . —I never said to . Mr OiBosHE remembered something extremely like it in the speech of tke noble lord , but he had not been felicitous in the choice of names , for there were few of the Howards and the Stanleys in the pablio service—there was one other name to be met with oftener than either , asd who made a very good thing of it . ( Hear , hear . ) But he did not object to those bearing these same *— he objected to ihs Lord Tom Noddies who were crammed iato office , to tbe excluaion of better men . The government . W 6 S indeed a government of great families , and neither the colonies , tbe sta ; e of the finances of the country , or the condition of Ireland , stowed tbat we were bentfitted by ths system . What the country wanted was a government of practical men . and he

      believed the hon . member for Sunderiand , with one ox his railway boards , would carry on the government of the country es well as the noble lord . The hen . znsmber for Backs objected to the motion because , he said , it was a middle . c ' . aes movement , and hs Bald the only Way to govern the country was to have recourse to traditionary influences . When he talked thus he mast have forgot a recent day nhen the middle classes camo forward as a bsdy and stood between them « nd a revolution . ( Hear , hear . ) If the country was distinguished for one thing more than another , it wag for the intelligence , the pradenae , end the wealth of the middle classes . They cemented tbe fabric of the constitution—they were the connecting link between the gentry and the working classes—in fact , they were the preservers of the country . What were the traditionary iDfluences to which he

      w . uld have recourse . He remembered one where a country member was superseded became the King . attrmB could not find his coat of eras in the Herald ' s College , asd in those days the Speaker was compelled to sit is the chair in a cocked hat , ( Laughter . ) In the time of Henry VI ., only Lancaster , In the great county of Lancaster , sent members to that house , and in ihe time of Heary Til . only York and Scarborough were repre sentcd in tbe whole county of York . Did his hon . friend wish to go back to the real traditionary influence * which gave the nomination of the members of tlrnt bouet to the

      Crown . The Crown used to issue writs to placeB at Mb own will aud pleasure . Why ii was only in 1578 , that Durham was represented , and the hon . member for Newark ewed his seat to the last profligate act of Charles II . The great -work of the really great Mr Diiraeli ( Cheers ) stated that ono troop which fought at EBgehill owned more property tfean the whole of tbe House of Commons which had voted againit th « m , yet that troop , and many more of the same class , were put down by the middle classes of that day . Away , then , with all the talk of traditionary

      influences—• The knights are dast—their good swords rust , Their souls are with the saints , I Irast . ' ( Laughter . ) He had great respect for the country gentie Hen ; but in all his reading be had never found that they had been leaders of popular opiaion . Why Hampden was cat by the country gentlemen of his cay . He would positively not hava been asked tc dinner by the country gentlemen ef the present day . ( Laughter . ) It was not the country gentlemen who had pnt an end to the American war . It was not they who carried Catholic emancipation or the Reform Bill , In the present session they had certainly conferred tbe great boon upon the tenanti in farms ia allowing them to kill their owa bare ! , and they had distinguished themselves In opposing a bill to remove the last link is the chain of intolerance .

      ( Hear , hear . ) No true friend to his country would look down upon either the gentry , the middle or the working classes . The striking off of all shackles from the spread of education , intelligence , and religion , would prove the salvation of the country . The motion of his hon , friend the member for Montrose would tend that way , and therefore be would give it his firm support , Mr Sergeant Talfoced said , as ia early life he had always felt an ardent sympathy with political reformers , asd having goae as far as he thought coneistent with justice , and ai he was about to give bis earnest and de . cided opposition to the motion of the hon . member for Hontrese , he could not repudiate that revolution ia little which it presented to his mind , he was anxious to assert his consistency in declining to proceed farther in

      the p&th which he wa 9 invited to tread . Whin he looked back for the la » t thirly years — when he looked to the time when he first took an interest in the question of reform , and then considered tke vast addition that had bstn made to the popular f trength — wh « a he remembered that the system of rotten boroughs had been defended by thejnost brilliant statesmen of the age as a part of tbe constitution — when he remembered that every corporation was a little lecal aristocracy — whea he recolltcted that tbe stability of s paper currency wbb upheld by executions , —when be remembered that the press was visited with severe sentences to prevent the breath even of a murmur of discontent— , and then , when he considered the mighty alterations that bad taken place since that time , of the power tbat was wielded

      by the aristocracy , and taken from them in 1832— . when he considered that the popular element had been infused into the corporations , — when he considered the reform of their laws , so that scarcely the scent of bleod rested rjpsn the statute beok , —and when he considered that , so fsr from tke press being persecuted , it did not siffer any annoyance , —when , he said , be considered all these things , he felt bound to say that he must decline from proceeding further and that he mutt content himself with perfecting what they had obtained , and in imparting to the people knowledge , and piety , without which knowledge was a bauble or a carse . ( Hear . ) As to the resolution efhU hon . friend , he objected to it as being of a miscellaneous character , as presenting four different things as one tbiar , and of

      compelling tbose who might ba disposed to vote in favour of orb proposition to vota against them all . It was an attempt to obtain the votes of mild reformers as oppoied to those who had & dislike to the Sir Points of the / barter . It was declared by his hon . friend that it wes necessary to make a change in the present system ; be . causo there were co many poor persons who had votes , and who were subject to intimidation , tbat it was necessary te introduce a greater number of poor persons , and who were alone to be protected from the same influeBce by the ballot . If the ballot w « re proposed singly he would rote for it ; but in so delng , he must 0 » y that he thought its importance wa » greatly overrated , both by its 6 trpport * rs and opponents . Ha disbelieved that aa / mechanical contrivance could ever prevent the most Important political act in the life of a poor man fre < n b ecoming known . His hon . frUnd the member for Montroie stated that he woold introduoe the bailor , because to at the time

      the fnnehUe which hs proposed give same wonld be prejudicial without the ballot— ( ' bear hear , from kr Hume )—and being prejudicial , then it would be en enormosi carse , bacanee it would establish the !* o { tbe purse , The billot-box was then to be tbe K tte BnKl U OOn . titU . ioa , in which th . liberties of England were to be wafted to a place of leewitjr . Thus teen they were only to have a hitherto uatried experiffifcnt a / the only expedient , between what was to be a fmeor a WeBdng ! ( Sear . ) Hi . hon . ««<*« . nroMied triennial parliaments-that la , he would intic-5 SK little political change . The Chartists propos . d wTual parliament ., and he did not know but « ,., «« 5 " o cp Won of the politician , of a former times ( 1785 , who were were for ' annual parliament * , and oftener if Jfedta ' Whether the change la the duration . 1 par-. f "' wonid bo for good or evil he would not pretend SST-Slflier . like tilt gUnt tf oM . it would derive ! £ L-S ^ coming la coat ** with ti > . t from rid *

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      it sprung . It was a point which he dia not mean to fllB . cuss . He believed it wan enly intended to supplant for a time the greater plan of tbe Cuartieta . Then as to the extension of the franchise , and the new distribution of the constituency , he found that the plan which 80 mnny petitioners prayed for waB repudiated by the mover , who promised to explain his plan in his bill . But , whatever might be thesnecess of the present movement , he believed the bill was perfectly safe for the present session . ( Laughter . ) Then , how did his hon . friend treat tbe question of hocsehold suffrage ! His hon , friend said it was not every man who held a house ; but every man that a house held . ( Laughter . ) It was every man who slept in a house ; ana he did not know , according to the definition , who was to be excluded , except the gipsies , who slept

      anSer tents . ( Laughter , ) However , other meanings were attached to the word by his hon . friend ; but ha warned him of the daHger tbat would follow if once ho drew a line and excluded a large body from the franchise , The moment he did so , a tremendous agitation would arise for the larger franchise . Sut , supposing the mea . sure of his hon . friend waa carried , Vraa it to be regarded as a settlemeat or an instalment ? As a settlement , his hon . friend knew that it could not stand for 0 year . ^ As an instalment , it might ba accepted by the Chartists j but it would not be fair nor honest to the middle classeB to aik them to asgent to It as a settlement ; for a settlement it could not be . ( Hoar , hear . ) His hon . friend , the membor for Oldham ( Mr W . J . Fox ) had , on a

      former niglt , attempted to present certain indications of the elevation of the classes who were excluded fram the possession of the franchise , and for tbat purpose referred to the diffusion of cheap literature , as well aa to instances of individual power existing in tho humblest portion of the community . Now , although the hon . member dilated on tout last aud greatest topic with congenial eloquence , yet he ( Mr 8 erjeant Talfourd ) confeeeed that it stemert to him to be utterly beside the question , and that eucb instances neither proved nor Indicated anything respect , ing the power existing among the masses of tbe people , from whom those individuals had sprang . The hon . gentleman , also , rafcer unhappily referred to Mr Thos . Copper , the author of the ' Purgatory of Suicides , ' In illustration of the fitness of the clans to which he

      belonged . Sorely there never oould be an example more prejudicial to his argunuat than this . Aud when that instance was cited , and ths hen , gentleman called on him ( Mr Sergeant Talfourd ) as a witness , he , as a wit . nets , must tell the truth , and certainly that truth was destructive of the reasoning of the hon , gentleman . This was the Tbemas Cooper who went into the Staffordshire Potteriea at a time when difference ! existed between matters and workmen , and the workmen were out of employ , and presented to them harangue after harangao at a seaeon when words became things ; the people rushed from the ncene of his addresses to the work of dsselat'on and plunder , and threw the district into a state of rebellion for two whole days , until one of his unhappy victims was shot de&d by the merciful intrepidity of a soldier who led the forces that were called

      out . They then paused , and saw the dreadful delaslon when too late . Bnt the crimes of those , two days occupied the judges in the special commission three weeks . And this Mr Cooper was the example of the person of genius who was represented , he Supposed , as &t to be & meral teacher of his claos ; and these , his deluded victims , were the persons whe were seeking political power . ( Hear , hear . ) He believed the time would come when they might safely extend tho privilegts of the people ; but rational progrsss was best fostered by the preservation of our institutions , rather than by the engendering of agitation ; and earnestly as he believed in the progress of mankind , he did not believe that it would be most promoted by giving the mass of the people at present any large amount of polltioal power . With regard to the petitions which hadbtan presented to tho

      house » n the subjcot , undoubtedly they were very namersus , and had ceme from very respectable persons ; but he denied that there had been any true enthusiasm dia . played , or anj spirit enkindled in the country , or that there had been any public meetings worth consideration , except these where the question at issue was as between the lesser and the greater Charter . ( Hear , heap , and a laugh . ) He did not believe that the rtflaoting people Of this Country Of any elaso , however the hoa . member ( Mr Hume ) inigkt Inugh or sneer at the expressisn , were of opinion that we should now unsettle our institutions . He did not believe that the examples of the democracies of the present da ; were so inviting , of that the geenrity of property was bo graat la the midst of revolutions , as to induce any desire on the part of any considerable number of the people

      for those cbangoB . On the contrary , he thought that the general feeling was one of humble gratitude for the institutions under which we lived , and an honest pride in their security—that there was something in them worth living for , and oomething , if need be , worth dying fer . ( Hear , hear . ) At the present moment England was the very Thermopyla of the world—and was this a time , then , to tamper with her institutions ? ( Hoar , hear . ) Bating bo jot of hope for the future progress of tho speelestrusting tbat the day would ceme when the only true condition for possessing the franchise should be the power wisely to underatand and rightlj to employ it ; believlDg that the people of this country—and with shame and remorse be admitted it—were wholly unfit to receive the boon proposed . ( Oh , oh . ) The working classes possessed great power , but it romaicer ] to be seen that

      they possessed also tho iatelllgeBoe and the virtue ' 0 use it fer their own and the public weal—like the Cyclops , they moved in their cave with gigantic power , but still , amidst darkness and uaotrtaiaty ; tbat darkness wy to be removed neither by choap literature nor even by the light of science , without light from heaven . These lines from Coleridge more aptly illustrated their position , and wonld convey to them , were they disposed to receive it , a better lesson than any that they could hope to derWefrom their ordinary instructors . It was ia these words : ' The path of aacieat ordinance , though it winds , Is yet no devious way ; straightforward goes The lightning ' s track , and straight the fearfal path Of the caeno 1 ball : direct it goes , and rapid , Striving that it may rend , and killing what it reaches . My son the road the human being travels , That on which bl . ssing comes and goes , doth follow The r-ver ' e course—the valley ' s pleyful windings ,

      Carves round the corn field and the hill of vines , Honouring the holy bounds of property , And thus secure though late , leads to its end . ' Before he sat down ha wished to say a word or two of the Parliamentary Reformers of past times . In those days there were great and acknowledged abueeB ; bat wag tbe present a time whea tbe sober and discreet portion of the people of this country desired to see great obanges effected t At this time did any reasonable man think of HnseUling the institutions of the country J There mi , ht be some anomalies in our representative system , but surely a more fitting season than this might be discovered for applying to them a remedy . Were Englishmen at a moment of doubt and danger to waste their time and energies in tampering with institutions which bad long been to them a source of fame and protection ? Upon these grounds hs ehoald mast cordially , and without the hast hesitatiOB , give his vote againit the motion of the hon . member for Montrose . ( Hear , hear . )

      Mr Cobdeh said the hon . member who had just addressed the house had stated tbat the country was not in favour of the measnre of the bon . member for Montrose ( Mr Hume ) , Now , tbat was the statement made by tbe noble lord at tbe head of the government on a former oocftsion , and he thought that it was a most important ques ' . ien . But he put it to the noble lord and to the hon . and learned sember ( Serjeant Talfourd ) did they or did they not deliberately mean to say that the great ma'softhe unenfranchised population of this country bad nodeelro to possoss political power ? ( Hear , hear . ) Would any one in this house utter such a libel as that the great mass of the people who were excluded from political rights were 10 abject and so servile thai they did not even desire to poseeBS tbe political franchise ? He ( Mr Oobden ) should be sorry to believe it , and .

      moreover , he did net believe it , And if tbe noble lord aad tae hon ( gentleman admitted , and no one wonld deny the proposition , that tho people did desire to be enfranchised , theB they were placed in this position—that six out of every seven of the adult male population were pressing for , desiring , and claiming a right which they denied to them ; aad , if in addition to that strloua dilemma , it coald be demomtrated that a very large section of tbe enfranchised middle classes were in favour of the same view , then ho though H became a very serious element in the discussion of the question , ( Hear , hear . ) Without venturing to anticipate the result of to-night ' s division , he called upon the house to notice the division liet to-morrow , and they would find that In proportion as the members of this house represented large constituencies , where tbe middle classes—the ten pounders—had

      the free and unbla « sed expression of their oplniono—that just in proportion to that would they fiad their representatives voting in favour of the motion . ( Hear , hear . ) He mentioned this ia anticipatioB , because it would prove to be the truth ; and he mentioned It with satisfaction , because hs found in it a strong and most useful appeal to the great mass of the people , to show them that it was not true , as had been attempted to be shown by more than one speaker that there was a hostile sp irit on the part of the middle classeB towards the working clauses , and to show them also tbat just in proportion as the middle classes could exercise their free and unbiassed wills they were disposed to thrown open the portals of the constitution to their unenfranchised oountrjrnea .

      ( Cheers . ) Tbe next assertion of the hon . and learned gentleman was , that there wa » not any great number of petitions , or any strong expression of pabllc opiaion ; but he fjMr C jbden ) could convince him that there has been a very considerable movement ia the counry at a short notice , and tbat without organisation . ( Hear , hear . ) He had taken the trouble to record the number of meet , ings which had been held In favour of the motion since his hon , friend anaounced the day on which he intended to briag it forward , and he found that it amounted to 139 ; and there had been more spontaneous movement throughout tha country In support of the motion than there was in favour of the Corn Law , even after an agitation of five years ; for he wonld frankly admit that tho movement for the Repeal of the Cora Law galvanised , as

      it were , from a centre , and that the meetings were got up by a few men ; but on the present occasion the mettiugs had been local , spontaneous , uaiavlted , unioflaeneed . ( Cheers . ) He did not deny that there had basa discrepancies of opinion at those meetibga as to the precise nature eftue object for whieh they should petition ; but there was much lese of discropanoy , discord , and disunion than they had been accustomed to in timeJ pa » t « » nd oertainly much less than many poraane would like to have wen . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . J

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      True , there had been petitions in favour of the Charter and of Universal Suffrage ; but In the great rnojority of oasts they were la favour of tho motion of Mr Hume , Now , though he stood there as Che advooate of that motion , he had nothing to eay against tbose who advocated Universal Saffrage or the Charter , and he would never estor the lists to oppose those men . ( Hear hear . ) He confessed that ha thought tho hon . and learned member for Reading had not shown hU usual legal ncumon when speaking in reference to the definition of the term benBehold saffrago , To judge from the hon , and learned gentleman ' s speech &ne weuld come to the conclusion that household occupancy had always hitherto been considered nothing but the occupation of an eatlro house , und that It had ntver been

      decided that a man who lived in a house as a lodger was 8 householder . Was the hen . and learned gentleman Ignorant of the fact , that the Court of Common Fleas had decided that a lodger might claim to be rated to the relief of the poor , and when ratei might be placed on the list of voters ? Well , Mr Hurae , in advocating house . hold suffrngo , merely adopted a similar interpretation to that , and said , without requiring the £ 10 rating , 'You are a lodger , and may claim to be on the rato book , and on the list of voters ; ' and il wdb really no difficult matter of arrangement to extend the rulo a little farther andsay , that oven if the landlord did live on the premises , the lodger conld still claim to be rated and entitled to be on the list of voters , Thus the difficulty to which tbe hon , and learned gentleman alluded res .

      pecting the exclusion of clerks , and intelligent and prudent young men in lodging , would bo got rid of—for all these were included by his hon . friend ' s motion — and so far as that ground was concerned be thought it had entirely escaped the opposition of the hon . and learned gentleman . ( Hear , hear , ) He was sorry to hear the remark which had fallen from the hon , and learned gentleman with regard to Thomas Cooper . The hon , and learned gentleman alluded to tbe past career of a man who had oinco distinguished himself in an altogether different manner , and doubtless regretted the part he took In tho transao tions in the Potteries ; but apart from this consideration the hoc , and learned gentleman had only succeeded In showing , after all , that a very good poet might be a very

      bad politician . ( Roars of laughter . ) The motion of his hon . friend the member for Montrose was for a bill to give votes for the election of members of parliament to houBebolders—that nag , to porcona residing in a house end paying taxes for the support of the poor . Now the theory upon which they generally acted was , that that was the franchise of this country . It was generally said that the people of this eonntry elected the numbers of that house . Was that a obam or roallly 1 If there was any one thing more ebaracieristf 0 of tbe present time than another , it was that people looked sot for dbams but for realities . Tho theory In this oountry was that the people had political power , and there was no responsible bsdy , as the hos . and learned gentleman presumed , for educating or preparing them for the

      franchlse . If thero had been an ; persona responsible for it would have been done long ego . But what was the danger of giving the franchlso to the householders who were the fathers of thelrjfamiltes , and who fillod theirohurcbea and their worJiBhops 1 Hs heard it continually said that ths Queen reigned in the affections of the people , aad sat enthroned in their hoario . He did not beliete that any extension of the franchise would endanger that feeling , or effect on ; change in the form of the govern ' ment ; and once for all he . said that , God forbid there should occur any ouch change . Hu hoped if ever there was a revolution in this country , by which the monarchlal form ef government would be done away with , tbat it might not occur until ho waa no longer here to witness it ; for the generation who made a revolution were

      not those who lived to odjoj the fruits of it . But if they were to extend the suffrage in the manner proposed , he did not expect tbey would see any great change in the claim of persons from wbdm they chose representatives of the people , They would choose them from men q € fortune , as they did at present . But tho result of such a change would be , that it would bring not only into the legislature of that hauce , but aleo into the executive government greater harmony with the wants and wishes of the people , and lead to greater economy in the government . These were the two things which were mostgwsnted ia this country at the present time—namely great retrenchement in the national expenditure , and more equitable apportionment of taxation , Bv the latter be meant that

      taxation should be removed from its present indirect sources and more largely imposed upon realised property . That was a thing which the mere instinct of selnahneas wonld induco the people , when gifted with an extended franchise , to accomplish ; for it was tbe thing most needed for the safety of this country . He did not mean to say tbat all taxation ohould be only levied upon property ; but what he meant was , that that whioa tbe country wanted was the removal of excise and ouBtom duties—tbe lessening of the duties en tea , wino , and et feh commodities . Ho would remove evory exciseman from the land if possible , and if the people had the power they would accomplish that desirable object . He might be told they would not settle those questions by giving the people aa extended suffrage , He admitted they could

      not at once settle those questions in ths year 1818 ; but there was no knowing what another generation might effect . If they included the householders In tbe list of tbqse entitled to vote , they would bavo 3 , 000 , 000 or 1 , 000 , 000 of voters , instead of 800 , 000 , as at { present , Could it be denied that such a measure would hove the effect of conciliating the masses of the people to the institutions of the country ? Whatever disaffection might remain after euch a change , the country would he stronger in its institutions when garrisoned by 3 , 000 , 090 or 4 , 6010 , 000 , than when the franchise rested on tho narrow basts of 800 , 000 voters . The household test was not a property test , but that at present in operation was ( hear ) , and what they contended for was , that tho man who whs taxed for the support of the poor should be entitled to

      vote . But tbe honourable and learned gentleman feared tbat under that system they would exclude tho merchant , who did not possess a £ 10 froehold . ( Hear . ) He admitted that if they approached the question in the spirit of a special pleader , finding fault with the expressions , sometimes hasty , of an opponent , they might raisa an outcry against their proposal ; but ss he understood the motion of his honourable friend , he wished for a fair , apportionment of the franchise to the people , and he did not in any formation of electoral divisions require that the country should be divided into squares and parallelograms . It seemed to be forgotten , however , that the Reform Bill had cut counties frequently into two parts , and made divisions with respect te boroughs and town ? , but be would undertake te do all his hoa , friend desired

      without retrieving any boaddaries of counties and parishes , and preserving a sufficiency of the old ties . But the question of tho ro-apportionment of members be consldertid bi far the moat important part of the queat ' . en . He agreed with those who said fie suffrage did not stand upon any right at all . He knew of no natural right to vote for a member of Parliament . He possessed a legal right of the kind , of which eix-seventuB of his countrymen were deprived ; but he acknowledged no natural right ; bnt he would fix the apportionment of members on some principle , whether property was the groundwork or not . At prostnt it was grounded upon property and in the moBt monstrous way . Mr Disraeli tho other night jok « d about the idea of Manchester having seven members under the proposed system , but he ffithed it

      had aeven-times-Bevea members , On what principle would , the Iaon . gentleman apportion members ? He would take Buckinghamshire , and compare it with MuncbsBter . In ' the latter the annual rental aasesBod to tbe poor was £ 1 , 200 , 000 ; in Buckinghamshire it wbb £ 760 , 000 , ' and Buckinghamshire had eleven members while Manchester had two . He would grant that tho annual value of land represented a larger real amount of capital than tho annual value of houses did ; bnt then in Manchester tho machinery , and the enormoua amount of accumulated persenol property which went to sustain the oommeroe and taxation of the eountry , were not valued and yet Manchester had but two members while Buckinghamehlre had elcvon . Wae tbat a fair principle of apportionment , while out of those four representatives

      there was not more than one returned by popular election 1 Was it fair that three individuals , a » was the case in that county , ebeuld have the power of sending representatives to that bouse to tax tho people . Again , take the West Riding of Yorkshire , and there was net one bat must see the necessity of a fairer apportionment of mombers than at present existed . Comparit g the West Riding ef Yorkshire with Wiltshire , they found tho population of the former was 1 , 154 , 000 , of the latter 650 , 000 ; the rental assessed to the poor-rate of tho former , £ 3 , 576 , 000 ; ef the latter , £ 1 , 353 , 000 ; while each returned eighteen members ' . Ho did not want Co increase the number of representatives in that house ; but if this motion was assented to , they muat increase the number of representatives in some dUtrlots . and muat diminish

      it in ethers , He would n » t say much on tho Ballot , for it was one of those questions whieh had the greatest strongth in that houee and the middling claaBea . The farmers to a man wore in fuvour of It . Having declared himself favourable to Triennial Parliaments , he recommended the house , if it wanted to put an end to agitation , to allow the power or the people to be felt within it . The hon . gentleman thus concluded : — ' I will Only Bay oae word in conclusion as to a eubjeot which has been referred to by the hon . and learned member fer Reading ( Mr Sergeant Talfourd ) and the hon . member for Buckinghamshire ( Mr Disraeli ) . Thoy complain wat leagues and associations were formed out of doorp , ana yet in the 8 ame breath they claim credit for the country that It hag made great advances and reforms , rou glorify yourselves that you bavu abolished the slave trade and slavery . The hoa . end learned gentleman nas referred , with the warmth and glow of humanity by wMcn been

      he is distln ui 8 bea , to the exertions which have made to abolish the punishment of death . Wnatcver you have done to break dbwn any abomination or nar . barlsm in this country has been done by assoc iations and leagues out of this bouse ;—and why ! *" .,, „ sinoe M&noheeter cannot have itifatr representation in tbla heuse , l ! woe obliged to cpguaiBOale » Sne «» mk might raise an agitation th ' rongh the length andibreadto of the Und , and in this Indirect manner migne mase itself felt ia this house . Well , do jou want to get na of this system of agitation 1 Do you want to prevent these leagues and associations ont of doors ! Then you must bring thlshouBo into harmony with the opinions of the people . ( Hear , hear . ) Give the mean , to th ^ people of makbg tbemielves f « U ill thlfiI hOUW . AH » you afraid of losing anything by it ? Why , the very triumphs you have spoken of-the triumphs achieved ont of dooro-by Reformers , have been tho salvation of « Ji 8 country , &m , bw . ) They 6 « joor glory en 4

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      exultation at the present moment . But ia this not a most cumbrous machinu !_ House- of Commons , by a fiction Bald to be the representatives of the people , meeting _ here and Prafe , lng t 0 do the people ' a wo . k . while the people out of dOorB are obliged to organise themae vea iu lenguea ond a 86 oelationfl to compel you to do taat work ? ( Hear , hear . , It 1 . not with a » leW of overturning our institutions that I advocate these reforms in our representative aystem . It is beoause I bo-1 eve that we may carry out those reforms from time to time , by diuousoioBs in this towe , that I take my part In advooatlng them in this legitimate manner . They must be eff .-cted in this mode , or they must be effected aa haa been the case on the continent , by bayonets , by muskets , and ia the etreets , Now , I am no advocato for

      sach proceedings . ( Hear , hear . ) I conceive that any men of political standing in this country—any memb . rs of this house for instance—who join ia advocating tbe extension of the sufftage at this moment ore tho real conservators of peace . So long as the great mass of the people of tbis country pee that there ore nun in earntet who are advocating a great reform liko this , thoy will wait , and wait patiently . They may wast more ; but so long as they believe that men are hoaestly and resolutely striving for reform , and will not bo satisfied Until they get It , the peace and defuty of this couatrywhich I value aa much as any Conservative—are gua . rautced . ( Hear , hear . ) My object in supporting this motion Is , that I may bring to bear upon tho legislation of this house those virtues and that takat which have

      characterised ths middle and industrious clauses of this country . If you talk of jour aristocracy and your traditioPB , and compel me to talk of the middle and industrious cIsbbdb , I say it is to them that tho glory of this country is owing . You have had jour government of aristocracy and tradition ; and the worst thing that ever bofel this country has b 9 en its government for ttie last century and a half . All that has been none to elevate the country has beon the work of the middle and ir . daatrlous classes . Whether in literature , in arts , in science , In commerce , or in enterprise—ail has been- done by the middle aud industrious classes ; and It is because I wish to bring suoh virtue , euoh Intelligence , such Industry , such frugality , suoh economy Into this house , tbat I sup . port tho motion of the hon , member for ilontroso , ( ' Hear , bear , ' and oncers . )"

      Mr Ubqohaet observed that some years ego parliament had adopted a Bsform Bi'l , which waa to remedy all the gtiotaneei of the country . Tkey could now look back upon the experience of that measure ; and it appeared that , instead of ameliorating tbe evils it was intended to relieve , its effect had been to augment them , A fallura more complete had never been exhibited in the history of any civilised couatry . It had been asserted tonfgbt , as an argament for farther reform , that tbat home , in a financial point of view , had become nsel « 0 Q . Now , it appeirad to him ( Mr Urquharl ) that that argument told against the proposition of the hon . member tor Montrose ; for it amounted to tMs—that expon . diture , lmtead of having been reduced , had bean increased by a reformed Home of Commons , and that

      therefore a new reform wnarequUlte , The hon . mover of this resolution ( Mr Hume ) afforded an apt illujtration of the old maxim , Tempora mulanlur . ' In tho unroformed parliament that hon . member was most streRUOua in demanding economical reforms , and in en deavourlng to dlmlnUh to the smallest amount tbe expenditure requisite for the public service . But when bad tbat hon . gentleman raieed his voico in the reformed house to urge such aweepiag reductions of the public expenditure ? The hon , member for Montrose was one who called for the bill , the whole bill , and nothing but the bill ; but bad he ev « r been able with a reformed parliament to raise bs successfully as he had

      done before the question of the public ezpendi . ture ? The hon . gentleman had then the co operation of Mr Banning , who said , ' the condition of the oountry Imperatively demanded a reform of our usances ;' aad also of the right hon , gentleman the member for Tamworth , who expressed his determination to institute an Inquiry into thew hole extent of our naval and military establishments with a view to a \ eduetlon ; Mr Husklsaoa likewise oxpressed himself in favorir of reduction ; the consfquence was , that in four ysars ne less ' than and £ 6 , 000 , 006 of taxation was reduced . The public mini ) , however , was not eatlofW , asd then &j"os « ihe cry ( or reform ai tho means of still further redaction !! of tho

      public expenditure . Another ministry came into power , and with them reform ; and down till 1885 the system ot redaction was continued . In that roar the lowest point of expenditure wao raaohed ; and from that time a to tally different lino of oonduct was pursued by tbat house end the government . The consequence had been , thatns lets a sum than £ 40 , 000 , 000 had been paid by this coun try since 1833 , in addition to what would have been expended had tbe system of reduction which waa previously in operation been followed out ; and had the re .

      commendation of the committee of 1817 bees acted upon , a further reduction of £ 40 , 000 , 000 would have been experienoed by the couatry . Judgiag it worse than innanity to introduce a now Itaform Bill after the expo , rlence they had had of the old Reform Bill , ho should move— ' tbat experience has shown , that change in tbe constitution of parliament has failed to obtain the ends for which it w « ts desirable , and with which it was originally conjoined—Tiz ,, non-interference and retrenchment . ' Mr Anbtkv seconded the amendment .

      Mr Locee Kino said that whatever grounds for complaint existed in 1832 existed at present in as great force , We had profitod by the French revolution of 1830 , and had gained the Reform Act of 1832 and other great and beneficial measures . Franoe had then made a change in its government merely nominal , It had been etationary , whilst we bad been safely and steadily progressing . Again we must make & step la advance , and tbat atep must be bj adding another schedula A to another Reform Bill , Mr O'Conkor said that , connected as he had been for many years with the larger question which had been incidentally brought into the discussion of the motion of the hon . member for Montrose , he thought he might claim the indulgence of the house while he gave his opinion on the question before thorn . He might have risen under some difficultyat least under greater difficulties than he now experienced , if it had not been for the admission of the

      ncble lord ( Lord J . Russell ) in expressing his determination to resist the proposition of the hon . member for Montrose . It waa an admitted fact that every new political party , every new polivical question , had lo go through a certain ordeal . The promoters of every new political question were first laughed at and scoffed at , then they were reviled and persecuted , then the principle was considered , then it was deliberated upon and discussed , and then it was legislated upon . Now , he confessed he felt greatly relieved from embarrassment when he found the noble lord declaring in the speech he had delivered o » tbis subject , that he preferred the odious principles of Chartism to the minor principles of the resolution of the hon . member for Montrose . It gave him and those who had laboured with him a guarantee that he had not laboured in vain . He felt that the speech of the noble lord , although made on the Ministerial side of the house , was intended

      for ft book of reference when he should change to the other side . ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . and learned member for Reading ( Sergeant Talfourd ) had delivered a speech on this subject which had been called an able , a poetical , an astounding , an astonishing speech . For himself , he had been most struck with the ignorance which had been displayed by the hon . and learned member . ( Laughter . ) The hon . and learned gentleman had rested upon three points . He had referred to tbe case of the artisan in his attic or cellar , incapable of supporting his family , and had asked—would you trust that man with a vote ? In answer to that he would say that if the want of that vote disabled that artisan from supportine his family , or if in his opinion it placed him

      in that situation , he was the very man whom he ( Mr O'Connor ) would enfranchise . The hon . and learned member had also asked them—would you enfranchise the ignorant people of the country ? That was precisely the argument which was used in 1780 , when Charles James Fox and the Duke of Richmond propounded views exactly the same as the People ' s Charter now ; and with respect to this charge of ignorance , he would ask , who 4 were to blame for it , the people who had been left to grow up in ignorance , or the government , wboBe duty it was to educate them ? ( Hear . ) He contended that an extension of political rights ought to precede national education . Place a man in the position of political responsibility , and ignorance became a

      crime . The hon . and learned gentleman had also said , had we not had an instance in some neighbouring foreign countries of the disadvantage of adopting the principles now proposed ? He ( Mr O'Connor ) would answer , that they bad had instances of the folly and disadvantaRe of postponing these principles until it became necessary to establish them by physical force instead of moral power . ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . member for Montrose had said that the measure which he proposed had been adopted by the working classes . - He ( Mr O'Connor ) would hold himself unworthy of a seat in that house—he would consider himself unworthy of the position he held with the working classes , if he did not give that assertion the fullest and the most

      positive contradiction . Although he meant to vote for the resolution of the hon . member , he begged to caution the hon . member as well as the noble lord not to postpone the larger and more extended measure till the wrong moment . The hon . mem . ber ' a motion had been analysed in the course of the discussion ; , and some hon . members had stated their preference for one point and some for another . Well , he would tell the house the point to which he attached the most importance , and that was Annual Parliaments . He confessed that , ' after what he had seen in that house , he would prefer Annual Parliaments with the present constituencies , to Universal Suffrage with Septennial Parliaments . He begged to observe that , with tho exception ot Vote by

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      Ballot , every single point of the Charter had at one time formed part of the constitution . Annual Parliaments were at one time the practice in this counl try . The principle of'No Property Qualification " was also an old one . Formerly , also , there wag Universal Suffrage , and the reason for abolishing that was stated in the preamble of the act to be the feud- * and quarrels which had sprung up among the aristocracy . Formerly there existed electoral dig . triets , and it was well-known that members of the house were paid by their constituents ; so that five out of the Six Points of the Charter were onre the law of the land . The noble lord ( J . Russell ) said that all that the people wanted was the best descrip . Uon of government ; but how were they to get it

      How were they to accomplish that object , if they were not represented in that house ? When the hon . and learned member for Reading spoke of the want of education among the people , he should have borne in mind that it was not necessary that whole classes should be educated , but that it was sufficient if a system of instruction was partly infused among them ; and if they could distinguish between a proper and improper representative , they were sufficiently educated for the franchise . The people of this country had s ' lown for many years that they desired reform . They had been told by the right hon . baronet the member for Harwich ( Sir J . Hobhouse ) and by the hon . gentleman the secretary to the Admiralty , that taxation without

      representation was unjust , and that the people were the source of all legitimate power . But the noble lord now said that they were satisfied with the present form of government . When the Reform Bill , however , was carried , they were promised peace , retrenchment , and reform , and thev expected a participation in the social advantages which were held out as tho consequences of that measure . In that they had been deceived . All those promises of high wages , cheap bread , and plenty to do , roast beef and plumb pudding , had turned out to be fallac ous , and now the people would take the matter into their own hands . The aristocracy on one side of the house had deceived the people once , and the middle classes on the other side had deceived them twice .

      ( A laugh . ) They had not shared in the promised benefits of free trade , and unless the government were prepared to carry out the principles of free trade , and consult , not the interests of those who made their profits out of the diminution of wages , but of those who made their profits by legitimate trade , they would find themselves , some fine morning , in the situation of the French government . The right hon . baronet , the member for Tamwortb , had laid the foundation of free trade , but his principles had not been carried out . A strong case was made out for some reform at least by the unseating of so many members for bribery , and by the fact that out of the agricultural constituency there were 108 , 000 tenant ? at will , who were as much bound to vote for

      their landlord as if they had been slaves purchased in the market . Cut , ns he was saying , free trade had not yet been carried out , and the working classes inquired where their share of free trade was . For the last six years they had been very peaceable , though reduced to a state of unparalleled distress , and why , then , should the house hesitate to enfranchise them ? He found no disposition on their part to commit violence , but an anxious desire to earn their bread by the sweat of their brow . He should vote for the motion of the hon . member for Montrose as a choice of evils , his proposition being good so far as it went , and certainly better than nothing at all , but he could not accept it as a final settlement of the question . He would not abate one jot of his energy or enthusiasm ia the cause of the people , and if the hon . member ' s motion were carried to-night , be should advocate all the principles of the Charter to-morrow . Whilst

      under excitement he charged the hon . member for Montrose with impropriety in haviag withdrawn his motion ; and the hon . gentleman , the member for the West Riding charged him with having n ; ade an attack on tbe hon . gentleman . He ( Mr O'Connor ) begged to disclaim all intention of ferocity ; but there was a determination evinced by the hon . member for the West Riding , to rally the middle classes around him on this question . He would not , however , enter further into the question , but would content himself with the observations he had made , declaring that however , on the other ( the government ) side sf the house , hon . gentlemen might maintain their principle of free trade and no surrender , and however hon . gentlemen on that ( the Opposition ) side might maintain their principles of protection and no surrender , he alsothrough persecution , through good report and ovil report—would maintain his own principles , and no surrender .

      Mr M . Milkes did not think tbat the ballot would produce any great change in the composition of » hat house ; but the ( JMataft of Qtt&t Britain inta naiv electoral districts would introduce a very portentous change . It would aebtract from ( he influence of the couutrj and add to the Influence of tha towns , and at prosun thjo ton-SB had no right to complain of their want of infill , ence , as tbo ; had carried i ' ree Trade and < he repeal o £ the Corn Liwb against the wishes and resistance of tho agricultural interest . He should therefore vote against tbe motion . There waa no immediate grievance which called for it ; but tbe great events which had recently occurred In Europe must find an echo here . If every Frenchman , German and Italian , had his ahare in the political arrangement of bis country , a claim for u

      similar power would be heard here , and wo must bo prepared to moot it . Ia his opinion , since the Reform Bill tha towns had no right to complain ot their influence ia tbat houBe ; and , hu believed , tbat there wag no strong popular desire which would not make itself represented and accomplished in that house , No doubt a preference was given to persons of distinguished birth and rank la that house , for ths people ot England loved tbo arigtooracy—they loved a lord . ( A laugh ) Ev « n iu that houae they showed on habitual deference to a member of " the arietocraoy— ( laughter)— and from that he inferred tbat that house wae a fair representation of the people . He had stated that he did not consider that « uch a grievance was made out as justified thb chuDge that was asked fer by this motion , and he should therefore glvo bis votepgninst it ,

      Mr S . Herbert would not , in tho diiousBion ofa queB . tioa effecting tbe character of the house and tiio coaipeteBcy of carrying on the publio business , add to any charge thathad been breught against it , by unnecessarily extending the speeches in its debates , His only objeo * in speaking at all was to express his wiBh that Wb vota ahould be considered as distinct from the votes to thoso who were of opiaion that the representation of this ooua « try was perfect , or that it was impoaalWo tomato any improvement in it . It waa unnecessary for him logo to any length into the question , it having been already to ably argued , and by none more powerfully than by the noble lord at the head of the government . ( Hesr . ) It was

      With great satisfaction that ho heard the noble lord glv « us the doctrine of fiuality . It was also with pleasure that he heard the noble lord state that ho did not approve of uniformity of suffrage .: Nojt , the otject , or rather the neoescary aocldent of oil ' representation being to secure good government , it first became them to inqulr * how far tho present system was calculated to carry on the business of the country ; and whether er not , under the present system , the different classes of tho poople enjoyed » sufficient share of tbe representation . Believing that the representation was not sufficiently varied , he regretted that the different modes of franchise that existed before the Reform Bill bad beeH abolished . Ho

      regretted very muck ( as wo undarstood ) , that tLa fran . ohise commonly known by the name of ' jiot-wftllopers * should have been abolished . It gave the working classes a feeling that they were directly represented , and it dlminUhed the tendency , on Ibe part of the people , to what was termed hero-worohip , —the devotion to some demagogue who had hi therto been an object ol admiration to the people , and jrho bad spoken to them ef the wonderful thing * he would effect when ho ahould ba Bent to Parliament . By the admission of men to Parliament who were more upon a level with the working classes , it would induce the working classes themselves not ta pay so much attention to the delusive promises that were held out to them . H » thought the bon . anS

      learned member for Nsttlogbain ( Mr P . O'Connor ) who lately addressed the house , when he went to render an account of his stewardship , fleeing that ho would have been five yoarB la immediate proximity to tho Thames , would find more difficulty in explaining to the satisfaction of his constituents why he had no t sst it on fire , than if he had never beea ft member of that house , and were for the first time announcing ail h » would do for them If sent to parliament ; but he wished to call the attention of the house for a moment to what Iiad Deea . tated by the hen . gtntleman the momber for Montrose , that England had hitherts been in tho van of liberal in . stituiions , but that now Bhe was In the rear ; and tho hon . gentleman added that ' . hose who acted with him . had for their object a reduction of the publio establish *

      ments , and a rigid system of economy . ThiB the hon , gentleman contended waa the legitimate object ofa democratio government ; but ho ( Mr S . Herbert ) would ask , had that object been effected in Franco ! ( Hear , hear . ) On the contrary , they had inoreaied the army to no less than thirty battalions , and with the National Guards , they had an army of 820 , 000 men , a larger force than ever before exlBtod in tbo time of peace , r no hon . member for Middlesex had » pokea « f » » 7 »« jobbing beins carried on by the presen t mode «»««« the House of Commons was confuted and > « B « J «^ a . an argument infavour of an extension of the uff rag ^ He alae adverted to the corrup t practices which prevailed lu France previous to the receat "wk ^ JJ SftMrtfrSf .-Sr . 3 TS ^^ Lp ^ Ss ^ SS themselvas amounting to , * 40 ' 00 * . " " tfcftt Now to En gland ths peopl * woold f «'

      *M*Rm Saritament*

      * m * rm Saritament *

      Untitled Article

      ^ ^ - ' 1848 ' THE NORTHERN STAR . s

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), July 15, 1848, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1479/page/3/