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    jt . I do not deny to this house the conijictency or the right of interference on such a question ; but I may say , that I think that interference ought at al : times to be tempered with discretion , that it ouglit , not tobe lightly undertaken , and thatnpon the whole ; it is most desirable to maintain strictly the line of demarcation between the functions of the legislative and executive government . It mnstalways be borne in mind that the brig htest and . noblest prerogative enjoyed by the Sovereign is exercised under the advice of " the responsible Ministers of the Crown ; and I shall not shrink from my responsibility , as one of the advisers of her Majesty with reference to the present case . . The lion , member for Finsbury had stated that the jicis-n- ; whose situation he has

    brought under the notice of the house were misguided and unfortunate . I must say , I dissent altogether from the position of the lion . Rcntleman that they were unfortunate , for 1 consider that with referenci to the crime of which they stand convicted , they were fortunate in the highest degree . The hon . gentleman has also said' that the feeling in favour of these individuals is strong arid very general . I admit it . But the hon . " member went on to say that that feeling was universal . ' To such a proposition I most equivocally demur . Those who believe that the sentence passed on the =. e individuals ought to be commuted have not hesitated to express so humane a feeling ; but , on the other hand , those who think the cause of justice

    and order requires that the punishment to which they have been sentenced should be inflicted , have abstained from the expression of that opinion , iu full reliance upon the disposition of her Majesty to exercise the prerogative of mercy consistently with principles of justice . ( Hear , hear . ) The-hon . member for Finsbury has stated that , in his opinion , the conviction of the persons to whom he has referred was not lead . He has stated very accurately the point of Jaw which was reserved for the opinion of the judges , and a nicer technicality could not well have been brought under their consideration . The filets are these : —Tlie statute , which'justly affords peculiar advantages to parties aceuseu of treason , provides that they shall have certain

    privileges which are not extended to prisoners accused of other offences . Among those advantages is thisthat partitsaccasedof treason shall be furnished with a copy « f the indictment , and a list of witnesses , at the same time , and within a given period before the trial . The prisoners iu this case were most anxious to obtain , at the earliest possible period , a copy of the indicanent an which the grr . ud jury had found a bill against- them ; and the solicitor for the Cruwu , with an eager and commendable desire to afford them the full advantage of their privilege , furnished them with a copy of the indictment at the earliest possible period , five days before the expiration of the period "within which be was required by law to do so . On the day within the limit prescribed by law he als < j

    furnished them with a list of witnesses ; and the point taken was , that the delivery of the two—the copy of the indictment and thelist of witnesseswas not simultaneous . That point was reserved by the learned judges who tried the prisoners lor the opinion of their brethren . The hon . member for Finsbury has said that I have admitted , under certain limitations , the necessity of au appeal in criminal cases ; and because 1 had made that admission , he put a case in which an appeal was made from the opinion of the judges to the decision of the House of Lords . 1 never held out the slightest expectation that 1 could be a party to the establishment of such an appeal incases of felony . As th «; law now stands the final appeal in criminal cases is to the opinion

    of the fifteen judges , and the decision of the fifteen judges upon the question is held to be final . . Now , what was the opinion of the fifteen judges in the case to wMclithe honourable lentleman referred ? It is true that cine out of the fifteen held that the objection , if taken at the right time , would have been valid ; hut it is also true that nine out of the fifteen held , that in this ease the objection was not taken at the right time . So far the hou . member for Finsbury and myself are agreed . Lut what was the unanimous opinion of the whole fifteen jndges ? It was , that if the objection had been taken at the right time , the sole effect would have been a postponement of the trial , and the case would

    have beeu decided at a subsequent period . ( Hear , hear . ) I must repeat my oifccTvaiion that , considering the advantage which was most huniauciy—and , as I think , rightly—extended to them by the advisers of the Grown , and considering aisu that the extreme sentence of the law was not carried into executiox on account of this difference of opinion amon ^ the judges , these prisoners were most fortunate . But 1 next come to-the poiat taken by the hon . member for Finsbary , that the offence of which these prisoners wereguiity wa ? only a moral demonstration in favour of the Charter . 1 think the hon . geutleman said it was only to be regarded as a moral demras ' ratiou . ( "Xo , no ! " from Mr . Daucombe . ) Well , theis , 1 withdraw the statement .

    Mr . T . Dcscombe said , what he had stated was , that he believed that Frost had come down from the hills in order to make a moral demonstration in fevour of Vincent , who was then in confinement in Monmoutb . Sir J . GiuuiM . —I understand the lion , gentleman to say that the purpose of Frost in going on the night in question to . Newport , was to make amoral demonstration . 1 must observe , in justice to the hon . member , thai he frankly admitted that those persons were convicted of a heinous offence , and one which , in his opinion , was wholly unjustifiable . This circumstance induces me to statetoihe house—or rather to recall to thtir recollection—what were the fa : ts of the case . It is not for me to defeno the opinions

    of the right l ; on . member for Edinburgh ( Mr . Maeauley ) , who is far more competent than 1 am to vindicate the sentiments he has recorded on the subject ; but I may say , deliberately and dispassionately , alter ¦ viewing the circumstances of this case , with respect to the offence itself , that I have arrived at the same conclusion with the right hon . gentleman . I must say , that a more heinous offence has seldom been committed . 2 vow , what were the facts ? In the year 1839 there was great distress in the niiuing districts of this country . The price of provisions was ksgh ; the rate of wajes was low ; " and a very general spirit of di ? afectian and insubordination was manifested . In themomentoftbatdisiress , amidatcpopulatiousi excited and discontented , in a district where

    frequent meetings of the people bad been held . Frost , who exercised great influence in the neighbourhood , decided , in concert with Williams and Jones , that , npon a particular evening , a descent should be made at midnight upon the town of Newport , by three different columns—one headed by Frost , the second by "Williams , aod the third by Jones . Their avowed purpose was to overpower tlie military quartered in thai , town ; to take possession cf the place ; to break np the britlse over the Usk ; and to stop the mail . The skipping of the maii was a preconcerted signal , by whicu i ; . r : pcpilation of Birmingham and the northern districts ¦ vcm to know that Newport was in their pussa * is ; :.: ; ...: t : itre was then to have been a general n < iav : rcr ihc purpose of establishing the

    Charter . Xow , tha ; 1 inay not misrepresent thu master , I wiSi « a ; i < irc atttmiun of the house to whus "was proved c : i the trial of these men . Tiic hon . member ior Fin . « . bcry lias truly said that the Grown was represented on iLatiiicnsion by two of the brightest ornaments of t *» : profession of the law—Lard Campbell , who was thej the Attorney-Generai , aud whose mind was deej . iy and honourably imbued with sound constituuMul principles ; and the hon . and learned member for Worker ( Sir T . Wilde ) , who , at'the time to which I refer , filied the office « S ' llicitcr-General . X « w , what said the Lord Chief Justice Tindal—than whom a more eminent and dispassi natc judge is not to be found—( hear , liear ) --in sunnmu ? un the cue on the

    tnai of these parties ? The Lord Ghitf Justice said , " The charge against the prisoner at the liar is , that having broken the faith and true allegiance which he ow .-d to hislaw . nl Suvueign , lie has levied war agaiast her within h ? r realm—that is , in une . word , a charge of high treason . I observed that the learned Attorney-General stated the case on the part of the Crown against the prisoners to be this , —that the prisoner at the bar iiad brought down to the town of .. Newport a yery large multitude of persons , arised and arrayed in a warlike manner , and thai die plan was to get possession of tie town of Newport , to break down the bridge , stop the mail , and thatt he mail not having arrived at Birmingham for some time , it would be a signal for a geueral rising in Birmingham and Lancashire , ; uid tbe Charter law would

    become the law of the land . The learned Solieilor-General , who has summed up Ihc evidence , had stated the outline of the case , which Ira been proved pretty nearly in the same furm , omitting with gre = ' t propriety that part of it upon which no evidence has been offered—namely , that which related to the general establishment of Charter law . The Solicitor-General stated that the plan of the prisoner was to get together bands of aimed men , with intent , by surprise and terror , or by force , to take Newport , to exercise power there , to supersede the magistracy , and thereby raise a gcneial rebellion within the kingdom . Kow , there can bs no doubt whatever , ~ th ;; t if either of the propositions wlach have been so stated by the Jaw officers of the Crown is made out to -imir

    satisfaction , there is full proof of the eommissioa by the prisoner of the crime of hi < h treason . " 7 < o \\; upon that suinming up , and after hearing the defence —a defence , 1 believe , almost unrivailcd in point oJ talent and force , which was conducted l < v the hon . and learned Solicitor-General , and the present Lord Chief Baron of the Coartr . of Exdirqu .-r , Sir F . Pollock —afor everything that le-ai insennity , powerful elo-iuence , and an earnest iltsire to obtain the acquittal of the prisoners had ken exhausted , t&c wei

    jury , ghing the evidence under tlsc direction o ord Chief Justice Tiudal . and with re f erence to the . statement of the law officers of the Crown , delibera «* J ' - tiopied a verdict of " guilty . " Sow , listen . *¦ " w"at fell from . Lord Chief Justice Tindal in nassh . " ' sentence upon these prisoners . Ue said : — "It has *^ prowd , in your case , that yon coinbinsd to « ei toer to lead from the hills , at the dead hour of night , * ato tnc towa ° f Newport , massy thousands of men ' :. MTOC '' m wany instances with weapons of a dan-iDUs "icseription , in order that they might

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    take possession of the town , and supersede the lawful authority , of the Quien , as a preliminary step to a more general insurrection throughout the * kingdom . It is owing to the interposition of Providence alone that your wicked designs were lrustrated . Your followers arrive by daylight , and , after firing upon the civil power , and upon the Queen ' s troops , are by the finuuess of the magistrates , and the cool and determined bravery of a small body < , t soldiers , defeated and dispersed ; What would have been the fate of the peaceful and unouending inhabitants of that town , if success had attended your j rebellious designs , it is impossible to say . The inj vasion of a foreign foe would , in all probability , have I been less destructive to propertv and life . It is foi

    ie crime of high treason , committed under these circumstances , that you are now called upon yourselves to answer ; an-4 by the panaliy which you are about to suffer , you holdout a warning to all your fellow-sulgects , that the law of your country is strong enough to repress and tit punish all attempts to alter the established order of things by insurrection and armed force ; aud that those who are found guilty oi such treasonable attempts must expiate their crime by an ignominious death . " I have already observed that on account of a point of legal difficulty , whieh was not ruled in favour of the prisoners , but upon which there was a material difference of opinion among the judges , the prisoners were spared that ignominious death , and their punishment was

    commuted to transportation for life ; and we are now to consider whether ihatseutence should be earned into execution . I do not wish tu aggravate this case , but I should betray my duty if , in weighing this matter , i did not take into consideration one important fact 1 have said that Frost possessed great influence in the neighbourhood in which , he resided . On that ground he had been intrusted with her Majesty ' s commission for the preservation of the peace . ( Hear , hear . ) He was intrusted with that commission in the confident expectation that alibis influence aud power would be exerted among his neighbours for the purpose of maintaining order , tranquillity , and peace , lie abused that trust —( near;—iie grossly abused it ; he abased it to the extent 1 h * ve already

    stated . ( Hear . ) Acd , certainly , if justice is to be administered—as 1 hope it ever will be in this country—with mercy , but still with a due regard to the example to be afforded to a great community , I cannot overlook this circumstance of so gross an abuse of a trust so important . ( Hear , hear . ) I must be allowed to make another observation . The night on wlach this movement took place was nnusnal-y dark and tempestuous . Frost did not consider the fatal and disastrous result which his conduct would produce ; he had no misgivings as tothe consequences of his crime ; but , by an interposition of l ' rovidenee , the dark and tempestuous night prevented the insurgents from arriving at Newport till daybreak . Frost headed the first column and brought it into the

    centre of the town , to a building in which a small portion of her Majesty ' s troops had been posted . He ordered the column to fall out iu . front ; he pointed out the post as an . object of attack ,-and told the men to go forward . But Frost was not found in their front , he was discovered some hours afterwards iu a hidingplace in . which he had taken -refuge . Xow , with respect to the punishment of these parties , we must consider how much of that punishment has already been inflicted , The sentence , as I have before said , was commuted to transportation ! 6 r life , aud what time has elapsed since the infliction of that punishment commenced ? A period net exceeding five years . ( Hear , hear . ) Why , sir , a person transported for seven years for a minor offence would not , in the ordinary course of the administration of justice in this country , have his sentence commuted at so early

    a period . According to the ordinary mode of proceeJiug , a sentence of transportation for life , even under the most favourable circumstances , would net be commuted until the expiration of ten years . Now , I must remark , that if punishment be net of a vindictive character- ^ as in this country I hope it never will be ; but if it be inflicted for the suppression of crime , and hi order to afford an example to a great community , I cannot think that I should be justified hi advising her Majesty to accede to the prayer of tke petitioners who have supported the motion of the hon . member for Finsbury . My sympathy , I am bound to say , is tot with Frost ai . d Williams . JViy sympathy is with the widows and or . . phans of t ' uosc men whom Frost , Williams , aud Jones misled , and who lost their lives on the occasion to which I have referred . ( Ilcar . ) I must say that I think it is useful that those men should remain—at

    present at least—examples that such advice as they gave 10 the people generally proceeds from men bold in counsel , bin timid in execution ; and who , when matters come to an issue , are eager to screen thems elves from tbe consequences of their misconduct , instead of being found in the foremost rank of those whom they have incited to crime and outrage . ( Hear , hear . ) Their cxemple , I think , may aftt . rd a salutary and useful lesson . I am bound to say that I eannut think , under ptesent circumstances , it would be consistent with my duty to advise the remission of the punishment to which these parties have been sentenced . Far be it from me to say that the gate of mercy should for ever be closed against them . Far be it t ' roiu me to hold any such doctrine . 1 say that

    it is a question of time and circumstances . At the present time , and under present circumstances , I do not think that it would be consistent with my duty to recommend her Majesty to extend her clemency so these UDlnrtucate prisoners . 1 do not consider U a < lvis ; ib ! e that any interference sliouid take place . Xo man respects more than I do the feelings and wishes of so iarge a portion of the community as have expressed then * opinions hi favour of the motion of the hon . member lor Finsbury ; but justice is . ad * ministered for the benefit of the entire community , and my belief is , that it would- not hu lor their advantage , rightly understoodthat I should accede to

    ^ the proposition of the hon . gentleman . ( Hear , hear . ) Mr . M&c&ulby- said he would not have altered a single word on this occasion , but for the introduction of hi j na : ; ie by the hon . member who brought forward the motion . The hon . member must , permit him to begin by setting right some mistake into which he ha « i fallen . There existed no such connexion betweeu the letters which he had introduced to the notice oi the bouse as he seemed to suppose . Those two letters were written at different times , and to different persons . Ona of them was written to a coastituent of his ( Mr . Macauley ' s ) in answer to some scruples which that constituent entertained abeut

    contributing to the support of the militia , aud the other was in answer to the secretary of a committee , who requested him tosnnpoit the motion of thehcn . gentlenian in favour of the pardon ot Frost , Williams , and Jones . He ( Mr . Maeaulej ) had . had no notion thai either of those letters would be published . One of them was written in the strictest privacy ; thouuh , with resjiect to the other , which was addressed to the secretary of a conmiittee , perhaps he had not so much right to complain of the publication . They were , howeror publish e d together without his ( Mr . Macaulcj ' s ) authority , but , whatever influence they i : ught be thiiuukt to have on the tenure of his scat for the place he had now the honour to represent , they were not published , lie preiumed , with anv view t « ,

    isjj ure tue case now under disciissioii . With respect to the first of those letters , and with respect to the question oftlie elective franchise , it would be very nuicli out of place now to go over again all the grounds which he'had already urged in opposition to tbepctitio : i presented by the hou . member for Finsbury in 1 S 12 . There was not one word in the letter in reference to that subject which he was not prepared to abide by . ( Hear , hear . ) But he would not be turned away from me discussion of the question before the Iiuu . se ; he wcuid not on the present occasion be Jed intoadiseussiouof the principles of Chartism , but be requested any hon . gentleman who mi ght have a doubt as to what the objects of Chartism were , to read for himself that national petition presented bv

    the hon . member for Finsbury , aud to judge whether he ( Mr . Macauley ) had described them rightly or noti lie begged to say that the letter whieh he had written in reference to the case of Frost , Williams , and Jo : ies . was written without any expectation on his j . arl tUat it would ever , be published ; but there was not one word in it which-he-wjis not prepared to reassert .- ( Hear ,. hear . ) _ ln ; jtke £ rst place , he had a preliminary objection tu the motion ot the hon . member for Finsbury , which would be decisive , even if the case brought forward by that hon . member » a * re stronger iliau . it was . lie had a strong and insurmountable objection to any interference on the part of this house , with this particiilar prerogative of the Crown . . No doubt they had a right to advise the Queen with respect to the exercise of any of hsr prerogatives . There was no law which said that thev might advise xhu Queen

    with respect to one prerogative , but that with respect to another * he House of Commocs suou-d . not interfere . Bu * ,. ne discretion of farmer Houses pi Oomsc . ons had always imposed on them , and the discretion of the present " ought to impose upon it , certain rules not to be lightly " passed by . ( Hear , hear . ) It was from no supcmitious'feeling , from no blind reverence for the Queen ' s prerogatives , that he spoke ; for he wished that none should exist except for the general good ; but was it not obvious that the persons by liy whom the Queen should be advised with respoet to the exorcise of the prerogative of mercy should be the same persons as were responsible tor the peace and order of society ? ( Hear , hear . ) He could not but fwir , from what hau fallen from the hon . member for Finsbury , that he looked on the exercise -of the prerogative cf mercy in an erroneous light . The hon . gentleman seemed to think that its exercise should be a matter of mere

    amusement and pleasure . ( Hear , hear . ) " What a monstrous thin-v , " exclaimed the hon . gentleman , "that whciial | rinccof Wales and a lVhieess . lloysl were born , prisuiiers were not pardoned . " ( Cheers and ^ ush'cr . ) Such was not his ( Mr . Macauiey ' s ) view , be did not think that tne Royal mercy , was , like a iireAvork , to be let uffto celebrate a festival or joyous occlusion . ( Cheers . ) The lti . yal mercv was a ' distinctpartef justice ; it was a solemn ami iiwtul attribute . It rested on this principle , that the government was bound to preserve the peace of society , and to protect life and property , and they were bound to do this with the smallest infliction of suffering ( even on the guilty ) which was compatible vtt the

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    accomplishweut of the * objccViu view . ( lieiir | liear !) In such cases as the present nothing was easier ffiaii for lion , gentlemen to come down to ; that house and gratify the good humour of their con&titueiits by asking for pardons for all sorts of parties . He looked upon the origin of this proceeding to be the natural reaction agaiust that barbarous penal code which had been in force in England during the past century and the result was that there was now such a sort of effeminate feeling m the country ^ that there was hardly a case of atrocity with re spect to-which thev would not have thousands ot persons petitioning for mercy , if the house gave any encouragemenUo the practice . It was , therefore necessary to make a stand in the first instance . ( Hear , hear . ) Ue had no hesitation in Baying that this prerogative of

    memwas a power which he would rather entrust to the worst Minister than to the best House of Commons . ( Hear , hear . ) It a , Minister was bad , they could address the Crown to dismiss him ; but while they had a Minister with respect to whom they did not declare a want ef confidence , it was their duty to Jeaye this matter elsewhere ; and he could not contemplate the casein reference to which he would interfere with the exercise of this prerogative . But if he could contemplate any such case , it must be one of the most overwhelming , most flagitious , arid most monstrous iniquity , making one ' s blood boil , somethinc like the iniquitous cruelty which was perpetrated in

    the reign or James II ., with repect to those Who took up arms under Momnoutk . ¦ What . was the can of * r . wt , Williams , and Joues ? They raised 4000 or 5000 persons , who , armed with fire-arms , seitlies , and deadly weapons , marched at midnishtfor the purpose or attacking a town , and tired on the Queen s troops . Such were the Words of his letter . 1 hey wounded a magistrate in the discharge ' of his duty . .... . .. Mr . Dun-combe . —He was not wounded by their fire . Mr . Macaulet . —He had read the trial , and , unless his memory deceivtd him , two wounds were received by SirT . Phillips , who , on that occasion , exhibited a gallantry and fortitude which would have done honour to a veteran ; for he informed only Caplain

    Gray of the wounds he'Lad received , without letting the soldiers know of them . ( Hear , hear , ) This movement was intended to lead to a general rising in the north of England . ( Hear . ) Let'them consider the language of Chief Justice Tindal . Was that language too strong for the occasion ? Imagine the effect of a great civil war between classes ia Etig-: laud . That was what these men meant . ( Hear , hear . ) Xo war that they had ever seen or heard of could » ive the gniallest notion of the horrors of such a contest . ( Hear , hear . ) The great wealth , the great civilisation , and all the other advantages of this country , must make acivil war between classes a visitation very different from , and for more horrible , than the vvj . ro of the Roses or of the Cavaliers and liomidheaus .

    Was , then , that house to treav this as a light case ? ( Hear , hear . ) What were the motives which impelled these men to such conduct ? Were they of a light kind ? Were the objec : s in view small and insi £ nific : int , which ordinary minds were likely to reject as of no weight , arid were not likely to lead to imitators ? ( Hear . ) Murder and spoliation of every kind were always contemplated by the men committing tucse crimes , and the causes'which induced them to such a course were made up of all the motives which impelled the human mind . He was speaking <> f the leaders ; for with respect to the uuhappy multitude that followed them , no one could entertain any other feeling but concern . But in order to be merciful to the multitude , they must

    show severity to the guilty leaders . ( Hear , hear . ) Consider what were the motives which impelled men to take the lead in such proceedings . Every man who committed such crimes wished to succeed , and what was the price if he did succeed ? From a liueudraper in a country town hp . would be raised to be the President of a Republic , ' to be one of a committee of public safety , to be like a Robespierre exercising the power , of the State , and placed on the same footing with the potentates of Europe . This was a prospect of power and distinction fluttering to the vanity of every man , and these were the motives and these the visions which appeared to men when meditating on the subversion ot the established government' ( Hear , hear . ) And

    what was the punishment that it was now proposed to place against such a crime ? Less than that for a inisUenieanour or petty larceney . ( Hear , hear . ) Was it possible , then , to . doubt that , the 3 e men would finii imitators if it were to go forth that those who committed lrgh treason , who shed blood and raised a great civil war of class against class , and who attempted to subvert the whole order of the State , were to be less punished than the apprentice who ' stole five shillings Iran his master ' s till , or the girl wh might make free with her mistress ' s ribbons to deck nut her Sunday bannet ? ( Cheers . ) He contended that these great criminals would have imitators , unless their punishment bare some propmion to their crime . ( Cheers . ) The hoiu gentleman quoted

    as a parallel case that of the Canadian rebels . Were none ef them hanged ? [ Mr . Buncombe . —Not on that occasion . ] He was certain of the fact that a considerable number were hanged . But what was the resemblance between that case and the present ? In the case of the Canadian rebels , they hanged the most guilty and the worst ringleaders , and granted an amnesty to the vest . In the case of ' Frost' the same course was taken , except that nobody was hanged . But they transported the worst , aud pardoned the rest . It wa , lor the hon . gentleman to show how hauging in one case svine of the leaders and sparing the multitude was a case of lenity aud how in the other case only transporting the leaders and pardoning the rest was a case of severity . ( Cheers . )

    He approved of . the guarded'language which the right lion , gentleman . opposite , hud employed . He did not me . in to say that no circumstances mi ght arise to justify the exercise " of the prerogative of the Crown in this ca > -e . Were he to do so he should be CiMninittiDg the sanie fault as . the hon . gentleman near him , and interfering in a more unamiable way with the prerogative by restriciing the exercise of thu mercy of the Crown . No one who voted against ihu motion to-night meant to say that Frost , Williams , amljones mi . ^ lit not at some time be objects for the mercy of the Crown , but only that it was not proved that her Majesty ' s Ministers were not to be trusted with the ordinary exercise of her Majesty ' s prerogative , and that , that house would not nnprecedcntvdly aud inconveniently interfere . ( Cheers . )

    Mr . D'Iskaeli was delighted that Mr . Macauley had vindicated his recent letlers , and would be still more so , if some right hon . gentleman on the Ministerial benches would come forward aud vindicate the letters to which they had recently signed their names . With respect to the question before the . house he recollected that ho was , live or six years ago , intlic smail minority of four in favour of this identical motion . He thought it impossible to aggravate the crime whieh theseindividualshad commuted ; aud he felt bound to say thr-t their sentence was as lenient r . s any sentence could be under the eireumstauces . But in considering this case hon . members ought to look to all the other circumstances which occurred at the time . He could not forgi t that the year 1 So 9

    was a year of great political excitement , and th ; ic a system called " agi'atlon" had obtained in this kingdom for a number of years , and lliat by that , agitation , carried as he thought to the nearest confines ol sedition , men became ministers parties were destroyed and constructed , and an administration rose , to " power formed of individuals who ai i hat time hud sat on both sides of the house . Whether they were Secretaries of State or not he need not inquire : ( " Hear , hear , " and a laugh . ] When , therefore , these ignorant and uninformed individuals , seduced by theae great , examples , by seeing that from this system of asjitativn . men ' became Ministers , and byscciug others . in another part of the United Kingdom become uiore powerful than

    Ministers—when m seduced they b ' roue out into a course of proceeding which had been discussed tonight , he thought , it , right to consider their conduct in connexion with all the other circumstances of the time . Ho ( Mr . D'Lsraeli ) knew very well the correspondence that , had been licld by eminent leaders iu this country with organised masses of the people , and he knew that their transactions had been ihoro succontul ' tlmu those of these poor Chartists ; arid animated by tiiese convictions , although he thought their crime enormous , the greatest of . ill crimes , and the judgment lenient , he felt it his duty to v ^ te in their favour . Mow , had any circumstance occurred since to change his opinion , and therefore his vote ? The l'iiiht lion , and learned member ( Mr . Macauley )

    hatt instanced the case ot one of bur colonies ; bui it was the case of that colony that very much influenced him ( Mr . Ij'lstaeli ) . lie saw agrciit insurrection there , aud found the traitors ' not only not punished , but rewarded ( hear , hear ); arid although not the man to palliate the enormity of the crime in question , he did not want tiic people of England to feel that there was a difference between colonial and native crime ; an advocate of native industry , he did not wish for tuis exception . ( Hear , ' hear , and a laugh . ) If the . colonial system could only be oiirricil out by making Mr / Frost ' a slave , and Mr . Papiiie : iu a speaker of a House of Assembly , then that system ought to be put an end to . ( Cheers . ) But the right hon . aim learned gentleman , never richer in liis reminiscences that when he appealed to history , went back to the reign of James 11 ., and said it was replete with instances which might be liiirallclod with

    tne present case , bat which were innoxious conipaied with it ; here was a magistrate wounded , and her Majesty s troops were fired upon . It might be askcil in parenthesis whe ' . her her Majesty ' s troops were not iircd on in Canada ( hear , hear ); and it might be well to see a return of the magistrates wounded in Canada . ( Hear , hear . ) But when the right hon . and learned gentleman appealed to the rci « n of James II . as the moilcl rei ^ n for sedition and treason that should be pardoned , he mubfc be asked , was not the blood of Scilgmnar as costly as the Wowl of t \ us little tuwii of fcewpurt ? ( Hear , hear . ) Were we to be told to show no inejsBj&m the case of this insum ? i , tion , becanseiii thfftemof James II . thure was a rebellion m w'uclrthflte ^ Jfesu&ring . infinitely more severe ? The «> b < , oWittiWs ' . ofmV right hon . mid le&mcd gentlemni : supphednovaiiu ' argunienta' ; aiustt ! i . ismotionI The iiou . member then . turned-to the arguments of Sir James Graham , and" admitted that he had , as a

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    feffti' ^ M « n a couttitutioiml Biouiul in the early pan bt liissnecclu : Thcminister ^ j . rse ^ to dilat e on the enormity of the W 0 tue Crown , and no one would question £ tn ' nmiVi T ^ quite ¦«> ' extraordinary , sensat ? pllv ^ iat t ^ ^ mmcutuadasct of opinions they were determined to adhere to . ( A ll . Ugh . ) But tie right hon . baronet paused in that career , and "JMi ! . ^? ' lm * M ^ a clear and intelligible id

    » strong , position , both in point of constitutfonal sent me it ) ot loyal feeling , he virtually added , looking to the hon . member * for Finsbury , who were the first to discover that lie ' mn of so " squeezable" . a nature , — Bring forward the question- on another occasion , in another session , perhaps in another Parliament , and I shall be ready to meet you in tho most , liberal spirit ; . afc present I disapprove of thu motion , and I wisli the prerogative delicately and discreetly u ? ed . Do not for a moment suppose that 1 wish to stop you in your constitutional course : urcsa

    the Crown , though the exercise of" mercy is that prerogative for which I am peculiarly responsible , and with which this house is the very last authority which should interfere ; but do not persevere just now although under present circumstances we could not be in a minority . " ( Alaugh . ) Now that was not the . way ln which the government ouuiifc to meet the question . He ( Mr . D'Isvaeli ) voted for these men . years , ago , in the hour of their adversity , and would not desert them now ; . but ucconlhig to the right opinion ot society , and the desisiun of thu law , they had committed a groat crime , nnd the law had

    awarueu tueni a great , though a lenient punishment , and the government ( to use their own official language ) had onl y . two courses , —the men were either . to be punished as , an example to society , or pardoned as ' ar . eacourageinent to ptlieiVto feel that there was in the Crown a divine faculty of mercy ; but no governmen t was authorised in standing forward and : saying , " These are criminals ; ' . whose punishment we vindicate , but bring on your ' motion again , and we do not say we . will resist the appeal . " That was a concession of the' " most demoralising character . ( Hear , hear . ) If in such ' ' circumstances these men were ever pardoned through the exorcise of the highest quality , ot " . the . Grown , the attribute of mercy ., which all adored ,, what would tlicy and the multitude they represented say ? . Would they feel gratitude to the Crown ? No ; they would only recognise the timidity and weakness of thegovernmont .

    ( Hear hear . ) For these and other reasons , if . the hon . mover divided the house , he shoM support him sis before ; but perhaps he would do well to be satisfied with having now placed the case in a light which would call attention to it , and enlist qu its side what might be called the wholesome sympathy of the public , so that ultimately , perhaps , the Crown might be induced by its natural impulse and disposition , conscious of that sympathy of its subjects , to view with mercy the cenduct of these misguided men . ( Hear , hear . ) Sir J . Graham complained of the misrepresentation of which the last speaker had been ' guilty . What he had said was that he could not be responsible , at . the present time , for the remission of this punishment , but he had thought it proper to add , that towns not right for any man to presume that there was any limit to the mercy of the Crown .

    Mr . J . A . S . Wortley complained of the influence which personal pique and , personal prejudice always exercised over the mind of Mr . D'Israeli . They had induced him formerl y to vote for the motion , and they induced him to vote in the same manner bow . Leaving Mr . D'Israkli with these passing observations , he proceeded t'i remark that the petitions on this subject did not embody publics opinion , and to express his beliet ' . tlna nothing wowld give a greater shock to public opinion than the remission of this

    sentence . He then entered into a review of the circumstances which had led to the trial and condemnation of these men , and showed that so heinous was the criuie of which they had been ' found guilty , " that it wasonly after great pressure that Lord J . Hussell and Lord Melbourne commuted thu sentence of death into that of transportation for life . And yet this was the case in which Mr . Duncomlic called upon the house u > sddresa her Majesty for pardon ! If ever there was a casein which the house was bound not to interfere , tbe present was such a case .

    Mr . Aumoxby wished tlmt Mr . Dmicombe could have been parsiwded to withdraw his mo tion after the speech of Sir J . Graham . Sir It . Ikglis defended Mr . D'Isr . ieli from the censure of Mr . S . Wortley . anil observed that it was perlcetly lejsitiniiite in Mr . D'Israeli to remark that if these men had been led astray , it . had been by lights tkatcamafrom high . quarters . But while he ( Sir It . Inglis ) vindicated thetoue of the speech of his hon . friend-the niemberlor Shrewsbury , he must sav that he dissented entirely from the conclusion to which he had consistently arrived . ( Hear , hear . ) Had it not been , however , tor tiie closing sentence of the speech oftlie right , hon . baqsnet the Secretary of State for the Iioi : ie Department , lie should have ' beon contuut

    to sit in silence , lie had been vorv much plcnsed with the greater , part of that speech , but it did , especially towards the close , give him the impression that , while he maintained the right of the Crown to remain unfettered by ' the discussions in that , housewhile , indeed , he deprecated the discussions in that house—he had not made up his own mind in favour oftlie permanent execution of the sentence , and that he did give encouragement to a-repciitiou of this motion next , year , or some other year . ( "No ! " from Sir J . Graham . ) Then he withdrew that conclusion , liefore concluding , lie could liot'h elp ' expressing a wish that the . hou . member for Finsbury would withdraw his . motion . If lie did . not , he Imped the house would : reject ; it by a Large majority . " It was not merely that the prerogative-sot" the Crown would be

    best preserved by that house not interfering in this particular case , but that in no instance had public sympathy beeu less generally excited than in rcspeet of . those three individuals . ( Hear , Lear . ) People ulked of political offences as if they were no crimes at all . Why , the offence for which these men had been transported was the concentration and essence of nil crimes . ( Hoar , hear . ) If they had ' realised the objects they had in view human imagination could hardly conceive a scene of greater h-irror and atrocity than would have been witnessed at Newport on the morning of that day when these men were apprehended . The hon . . baronet concluded by repeating the expression of his hope that the motion ot the . hon . memuer for Finsbury would be defeated b y a large majority .. .. '

    Mr . Wakley expressed his surprise and astonishment to timhhe hon . member for the University of Oxford stating that the only portion of thcspeecli ot the right hon . baronet the Secretary of State with which he found fault was that which contained an indication of merciful and humane feeling . Was that the position which tho representative -of the ' Church of England had taken ? ( Hear , hear . ) lie really should havo supposed that the hon . baronet would have been the tirstman in the country who would have advocated the merciful motion " of his ( Mr Wakley ' s ) lion , colleague ( Mr . T . Duncombc ) . But iow hail h < 5 : been mistaken ! lie should be rejoiced if he could carry back the feeling of the house , and the impression arising from tiic discussion , to what they

    were at the conclusion of the ris : lic lion , baronet ' s speech . ( Hear , hear . ) He ( Mr . Wakley ) was sitting by the side of his hon . colleague at the ' time , and he made the remark to him , that he ( eared the subsequent discussion ; that lie was alarmed at what mijiht transpire during the debate , because his lion , colleague judiciously made an appeal to thoriiht lion , baronet , ami asked him if he could hold eut any hope of mercy being extended to Frost , Williams , aud Jones ; aud tho right hon . baronet , in reply , intimated to his lion , colleague a desire that he should go on with his statement , lie ( Mr . Wakley ) could ee clearly that the right hon . baronet wanted a vote of that house—if he was determined to limit the expatriation of these men—to justify him in that

    position ; because it was absurd to talk of the prerogative oftlie Crown iu such eases . It was an act of the Secretary of State for the Home Department , and of him alone . Now , the right hon . baronet , he considered , had made a fair speech , and he did not think that , as a whole , there was any ' reason whatever to complain of it . It was all that could be expected from a Secretary of State lor the Home Department . Such a Minister ' was placed in a position of great responsibility ; lie had in a great measure the conservation ofthu country under hiscspeciul control' and every person who considered this fact for a moment , must allow tlmt it required a great exercise of discretion cm the part of the Home Secretary to recommend that pesims who had been found guiltvof such should

    oncnees be liberated and restored to their country . ( Hear , hear . ) Bug in this case his lion , colleague bud token especial care . not to go into the merits of the question . He deprecated the offences ot which these men were found guilty , and spoke of them as offences : of the highest character ; lie did more , he reminded the house of the millions of petitioners who addressed the- house on this subject . None of them attempted to justify the conduct of these men . But these petitioners were of opinion that if those men had been . in a liijrlier . station of life , and had had more money at their disposal , and . could have carried their case < before another house , they would not have been > transported . ( Cries of , V ' . Oli , oh ! " ) He was only speaking of what was the opinion of the petitioners ; aud he assured the house

    that this impression universally prevailed . It would btt'in the recollection of the house that the question to have been considered in another place would have been one of a legal and technical character ; and it was generally believed , time if carried there the result would have been altogether different . Tlie hoibe would remember the decision which was given on technical grounds , in auother ease within the last year ( hear , hear ) , and the opinion ot the petitioners was , that Frost , Williams , and Jones would have been equally fortunate if the same appeal had been made .. Now what were thu circumstances under which the petitioners addressed the house ? Was there commotion—was tluvc sedition abroad ? Nothing of the sort . This was tne very period for the . Secretary of State , exercising his discretion . But thespeeoli < - ' iwhicli had been delivoralt 11 ; u ; . it

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    had thrown new diihuulties in tlie . wii . y ; far hifound in « that house . tnebitterc's . tenenaes ^ f . Fvpsi ,, Williams , and Jones—the bitterest enemies of fiierey : Did hon . gentlemen remember that the workingclasses had no representiltivesin that house ? Wen they aware that millions were addressing that housi ; asking for the liberty of men whom they conscientiously believed were unlawfully transported . ¦ ¦( Cr ies of "Oh , oh ! " ) That was their impression , was there ' nevertobe any concessions to popular opinion in-that chouse . ? - . Were they resolved , because the working-people were excluded from being represented in that house , to treat their petitions with indifference , contempt , and scorn ? ( Hear , bear . ) In lii » opinion they would endanger the existence olKthe constitution ot this country by such ' a course of proceeding , for ¦ what must the people think when tlu-r find ihat the bitterest eiiumieB of Frost , Williams , and Jones were discoverable

    in that house ? He considered that the Uome Secretary . was in a great measure relieved trom Ins responsibility by the speeches of the hon , members for Oxford , Bute , and Edinbur Rh ; and ho really hoped that it his . letters were always to be followed by such pobtsoripts as they had been that night , the hen : gentleman would never write a-ain ( Laughter . ) He begged the right lion , gentleman again to consider the case , with reference to the Je » al objection which was taken by the judges , and to bear in mind that the law of this country always maintained the principle , that wherever a doubt arose in the case of a prisoner , that individual was entitled by law to the full bcnelit of that doubt ; ( Hear , hear . ) ' Mr . : Hopk , referring to an observation of , Mr . ¦ D'Israeli , denied that any of those who had been convicted of high treason , in Canada had been since rewarded with offices and honours .

    Wd J . Manners and SirT . Wilde voae ' together , but , in obedience to the general calls for the former , bir 1 . Wilde gave way , and ^ Lord J . Manners proceeded to address the house . 1 lie noble lord commenced by observing , that , 'in Bpitc ot the speech just delivered by the lion , member , for Finsbury ( Mr . Wakley ) , in which the hon . member Iiad stated that the continuance of the diisciission could come to no good , and as it had been stated that the petitions of the people who had ho representatives in that house were treated with scorn and indifference , he wished to interpose a very lew observations before the house came to a division on the question now before it . He ( Lord J . Manners ) . thought that the whole tone of the present debate must serve to convince , not only persons in the house but also out ot doors , that chere existed no indisposition on the part of the present House of Commons to listen . calmly , fairly , and dispassionately to the cases . submitted by

    those classes , wliu it was said iiad no direct representatives in the house . The noble lord , afier defending Sir H . Inglis from the charge of cruelty , said the object for which he had risen was to express his regret at a considerable , portion ofthc eloquent speech of . the hon . gentleman the member for the city of Edinburgh . ( Hear , hear . ) He ( Lord John Manners ) knew not whether there was anything peeuliar in the construction of his mind , but lie must say that he never heard historical Whigism brought to the attack of modern Chartism , but his judgment was shaken by the feeling of great inconsistency . ( Hear , hear . ) In the ' very speech in which the right hon . gentleman had so eloquently 'denounced the crime ot which those men , Frost , ' Williams , and Jones had been convicted , the right hon . gentleman had attempted to' find something in the shape of an excuse and sympathy for the Duke of Monivsouth ' a rebellion . ( Loud cries of" Hear . " )

    Mr . Macauley . —The noble lord will excuse me . What I said was this , that if the severity of the punishment in this case had resembled the ' severity of the punishment by which Monmouth ' s rebellion had beeu put down , that then I thought there might be some ground for Parliament to interfere . ¦ ¦ Lord J . Masmbbs thought there was but a very little difference between them . In the case oftlie Duke of Monmouth ' s rebellion the sen tenet-was that the rebels should be hanged , drawn , and quartered , the sentence . on" Frost , Williams , and Jones was , that they should be hanged , drawn , and quartered , while the particular punishment carried out was , that the rebels in the former case wore transported to the plantations , while Frost , Williams , and J one

    had been transported to the colonies . Ile ( Lord J . Manners ) thought the 'right hon . gentleman had-not by his explanation made any material- difference lit ve " - speot to his case . The right hon . gentleman' had asked the house to look at the motive wiiich had indueed Frost to sec himself up and to levy war against her Majesty . What was Frost , it was asked ? A linendrapei who wished to become a ' dictator ; kid beeu the reply . iNow , he ( Lord John Manners ) could not forget that the house , by its vote on a former occasion , had determined t- i make celebrated che name of Hampden . And who was he but a private gentleman , who also levied war against the const * tuted . authorities of the kingdom ? But it was said that the cause in . which lianinden had been encased

    was genuine , while that of Frost was not . This was a mere question of opinion . There wero many who thought the cause in whieii Frust had engaged was a . legitimate cause , but still did thatimpression change the state of things ? He ( Lord Johu Manner ;) had no doubttliat many hon . ' members would not hesitate to vote in favour of the ejection in the new Houses bl Parliament of a statue of Oliver Cromwell . ( Hear , hear . ) It was quite competent for them to do so , but what he ( Lord J . Manners ) deprecated was these attempts to palliate rebellion in one age—( hear)—these efforts to honour the conduct of a regicide'in another , and . then to deal'harshly with those who have excited rebellion in modern times . This , he thought to be a dangerous and fatal course of policvacourseof policy to wiiich he could never lend himself ; and therefore , as he was prepared to

    opposeany propositions suchas those to which hehad alluded , so he thought lie was justified in riot voting for the motion now submitted to the house by the hon ' . member for Finsbury ., ( Hear , hear . ) Before he sat down , lie must say that ' he was not disposed to look at the crime of Frost as one altogether without foundation , for ho believed there had never yet been a popular insurrection which had not some great evil l ying at the bottom —( hear , hear)—and he thought that if the house wpuld attend more to the social and moral condition of the people , and less to the philosophical aud politico-ccoubmic-al notions which at present were so muehdiseussod , the legislature would be laying for the future a better and more enduring foundation for those great institutions of the-country which that wicked and criminal attempt went to subvert . ( Cheers . )

    _ Sirit . Fuel—There has been no speech delivered iu this house , to-night which has more confirmed my previous impressions as to thu evil cohsequenfies oi discussing , in a popular assembly like that in which we arc met , . the . exercise of the prerogatives of the Grown , than tho speech ' which has recently been addressed to the house by the lion , colleague of the hoi ) , gentleman who , has brought forward the present motion , ( llear , hear . ) The hon . gentleman lias / said that . a very strong impression pervades the minds of millions pi" our fellow subjects chat the' sentence in the , ease before us is illegal , and that if the parties Jiad lieen wealthy , and had been able to carry the case to the House of Lords , they would have been treated with a very different degree of mercy . ' Now , it the question was merely as ' to the legality of the sentence , neither house of Parliament could interfere , even on the petition of millions of the subjects of the realm . It was for men high and emiuent as legal authorities to state the case to the Grown—the Crown

    then to take the best legal advice within its power , and to see whether there was any flaw—any informality , or want of technicality in " thu convicticn , entitling the party to a remission of senlenee .. ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . member asked , is there to bo " no concession io popular feeling ? Certainly not , if that popular feeling be altogether erroneous . ( Hear , hear , j If the expression of . the opinions of millions be unjust and erroneous , this house ought to resist it by whatsoever number that opinion might be expressed . The question then is , in the first place—is the popular expression on tiiis question correct or not ? I say it is decidedly incorrect . ( Hear , hear . ) . 1 do not found that opinion on any judgment of my own , but upon the recorded sentence of tho highest legal

    autlionties . What was die decision of the fifteen judges as delivered . by a man of all others—no , I will not say , of all others—but a man more cautious , more forbearing , or more disposed to give a prisoner every advantage , never sat on a bench . 1 allude to Chief Justice Tindal . ( Hear , hear . ) The opinion of the fifteen judges was , that the delivery of the lists to the prisoners , however well intended , with a view to giving them every advnnuge , was , in point of law , not good . It was , on the other hand , urged that Un > objection to the informality of ' delivery was not taken at the right time . Suppose if . hail been , would the effect have been a remission of the sentence—the delivery , of the prisoners fivin all punishment ? iNoi at all . The establishment of that objection would

    only have postponed tho trial , in order that the Crown might correct the'informality . ' The result of the judges' decision was , that the conviction was , on the whole , quite good , and that the Crown had a right under it to carry into effect the capital sentence of the law . ' . : If'I am correctly stating the decision of the judges , the impression of the millions alluded to by the hon , member is ' entirely erroneous ; and , if so nothing could be more subversive of the first principles of law and order than that this house should defer to a popular ' . opinion , founded on erroneous grounds . After , arguing at somn length on the poiut of prerogative , and tho impolicy of such discussions on a popular assembl y , Sir Robert took u » the . facts

    o the ease . Why , wh . it was the case ofFros ' f ? He was a man oi property—a man of intenigeaeea man who stood in a peculiar relation to the' Cftiwny having been entrusted with tup " cbmimssion ;' f 6 r ' thc preservation of the , peace . It is tho inconvenience attending such discussions as this , that involves , the bringing of the vhmmstanees of the case ' -before the house , though the very lift of doing so '' on . tlie part ofthe ^ Ministers of . the Crown appQjirs to ' show an inclination not lo ' . a ' tlviso tho Crown'jo a lenient exercise of its power . But what wer ^ t ] ip '; . i ' aets' of this ease ? A magistrate makes p ^ ala ' e'l ^ on a peacable town , at the head ' of a" bofl ^ of ^ finW ' meh ' - which attack was to be thesigiiaj-tp ^ 'ie ' . uev'nl insurrection throughout the northYWbmw was to

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    bo blown up ; the mail was to be stop , ed , ihe stoppage of the mail being intended as an indication t » - Birmingham thac ' - 'Newport'was in possession ¦ of rebels against tho authority-of . the Crown . That is the ; vassin which , after the ' p arties have undergone six years' imprisonment , the House of Cfinmons ' ia asked to coitto . forward with a petition to the Crown for the exercise of its ' prerogative of mercy . I should deprecate , the establishment of a precedent' of ihis kind . I am convinced this is not the piaco in which to discuss the case of prisoners suffcrinjt the sentence ot the l

    aw . y . the lion , gentleman , acting upon the dictates of \ m own good sense , thinks fit not to provoke a division on chis subject , well and good ; but I hope he will excuse me if 1 distinctly state that I cannot invite him to spare us the paiu of a division by entering jruo any ... engagement whatever , either expressed or implicit , with respect to the future exorcise of the prerogative- of the Crown . I agree with my right lion , friend that this must bo left to the decision of the Crown itself , and I do not think it wise to deprecate either discussion . or division bj holding out any expectations whatever on that subject .

    Mr . Ai . Phillips should vote against this motion , if it were pressed to a division . At ' the same time he wished it to be distinctly understood , that in so doing he was not treating with scorn the petitions of the people . . , After a short speech from Mr . P . IIow . p against the motion , Lord J ., Russell rose for the purpose of pointing out the impolicy of entering into discussions on the exercise ... of the prerogative of mercy b , v the Crown to the , ILmse of Commons . ' , It was impossible to discuss a motion for the remission of punishment without entering into a , history of the crime for which it was inflicted . One side would state all the

    circumstances calculated to extenuate , and the other all the details which . were likely to aggravate , the crime , lie . assured the house that , except for a difference of opinion among the judges , the Secretary of State for the Home Department , at the time of these trials , saw no reason why the sentence of death should not be carried into execution . In consequence of that 'liil ' erence of opinion among the judges , the Home Secretary . had . deemed it necessary to . consult his colleagues , and the result was notorious to the world . He should vote against this motion , because he was convinced that all the . circumstances of this case would be more impartially considered by the Ministers of the Crown than by any other tribunal .

    # Lord ¥ . Egeiiton took the same view of the quo * . tion . Air . Duxoombi ! replied . He felt that great responsibility haying been thrown upon him , he was entitled , io justification of himself , to niako a'few observations . One would suppose from what had been said in the course of this debate that no question of this sort had ever been submitted to the house before . The hon . member for Manchester had expressed his virtuous indignation against the parties whose cause he ( Mr . Duncombc ) was endeavouring to promote ; but why did not the hon . gentleman exhibit this intlignation when the hon . and learned member for Bath brought forward his motion for thepaadon of the Canadian rebels ? Nothing was then said about

    usurping the prerogative of the Crown . The right lion , baronet had said that nothing was so wrong as to discuss such a question as this ; but why , lie would again ask , was any such discussion allowed in reference to Canada ? There was a distinct understanding between the hon . and learned member for Bath , and the government . ( Hear , hear . ) The lion , and learned gentleman said— "My clients will be released , and I . shall not be obliged to trouble the house . " Everybody knew-that the Canadian prisoners would be released , and they were released . All he ( Mr . Dnncombe ) asked was , . that the s . ame weight and measure should be meted out to the individuals-whose cause he now advocated . lie considered himself to have been unfairly treated by the hon . memiier tor

    . Bute , who had entered into the merits of the case of these parties . He ( Mr . Duncoiu . be ) " did not rest his appeal upon the merits of the case at all .. He said at the outset , that neither he nor the petitioners whose petitions he had presented , attempted to justify the crime of the parties ; but he . did say that they had endured sufficient punishmeut for the offence they had committed , and that their conduct had been most exemplary in the colony to which , they Had been sent . It was said there was no public sympatby—no call from the people for any relaxation of punishment ; but those who said so must be ignorant on the subject . He called their attention to a petition presented by him , praying for the ^ pardon of Frost , Williams , and . Jones , and signed by 81 , 000 inhabitants of , Leeds , including Dr . Hook , the

    vicar , the chairman , vice-chairman , and twelve of the guardians of the poor . The evidence on which the men were convicted , it was supposed by some , depended on the testimony of a . government spy , Be that as it might , he , however , wished not to strip the laurel from the brow of ¦ the magistrate , whose wounds were made so much the subject of commiseration . Those wounds notwithstanding , he believed , were not of so frightinl an extent , and amounted only to a cut finger , ft-oni which the worthy magistrate might' have escaped if not forhis praiseworthy exertions to unbar a window , in doing which the glass broke and inflicted the wound complained of . Nothing he had hoard during the debate changed his opinions , and in respect to the feelings of a generous people , he felt himself called on to take the sense oi the home on the question .

    Mr . C . 0 . Morgax begged to correct that portion of the honourable member ' s statemeut which referred > ' to the wound of Sir Thomas Phillips . He could assure the honourable member that instead of a cut finger from broken glass , Sir Thomas received a gun-shot wound in . the hand when in the act oi " opening- the window to call for military aid . The house then divided—For the motion ... 31 Against .... ... \ % Majority agaiyist the mptlon —105 On the motion of Mr . Newbk ' cate , a select committee was appointed to inquire into the facilities aflorded to vexatious objections and fraudulent claims under the present system of registration of county voters for the election of members of Parliament , i Tlie other orders ofthc day were then disposed of , and the house adjourned . HOUSE OF COMMONS-WEDSESDiY , March 1 L Thu house met at twelve o ' clock . FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL . The Friendly Societies Bill went through Corimittee pro forma it having been arranged between Sir Jame 3 Grauam , Mr . Duucombe , and other hon . members , most immediately concerned in its progress , that with a view to the consolidation of certain clauses , the tuvther consideration of the bill should be postponed for a fortnight .

    ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL . Mr . B . Escitt moved the second reading of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill . A measure of a similar nature had already been introduced into the House of Lords by the Lord Chancellor . The provisions of his lordship ' s bill , " however , did not entirely correspond with the provisions oftlie bill before tiie house ; but as the character of the two were identical , it might be preferable to consolidate them , and form out of them one measure . He detailed at some lergth the grievances still - suffered by persons professing the lloman Catholic faith within the-United Kingdom ; such , for instance , as inability to practice in the ecclesiastical courts , or to teach , uniess upon taking an oath , which was repulsive to many conscientious individuals . These inconveniences were acutely felt by numbers upon whom they pressed . Sir Robert' Ixolis was anxious to return to the

    practice of the Augustan age in England in reference to religious matters . That practice was wholly irrecoricileable with the contents of the bill btfore the house , which appeared to be based upon the legislation of 1820 , and succeeding years—the dark ages , as they might be called , iri"this country . No practical grievance had been substantiated by Air . Escott ; for as for Avliat he had i-ta ^ id about the obstructions in the way of Roman Cathpjjcs teaching , tlley . were notoriously unreal , sis anyjperson might haye [ a license granted upon application'to the Bishop of his diocese , The present measure would in effect repeal the Act of Supremacy , as well as the lawvfor the expulsion of . die Jesuits . He moved that the bill beread that day . six months . ¦ ' . '¦ ¦ ¦ .. "

    Lord Morpeth referred to various provisions in . the existing law which the bill before -the house would annul as practically inoperative , though not . on that account undeserving legislative notice . Thestatute against preaching , for instance , ' was notoriously intfteeiive , the obnoxious idoctrines being promulgnted without let or hindrance in all parts of the land . Still that enactment , while it remained upon the statute-book , might be applied to a-malicious purpose , and so . of others . of a like kind . He urged upon the house to abolish all such restrictions as those against which this bill was directed ; and as England was the asylum of political refugees , so let it be also the haven for persous of every variety of religious belief . , . Mrl Ki . wn opposed Hie bill . . . '

    Su-Jamks Guauam . professed-his readiness to support the second redding of the bill , though he considered there were some parts of it which should bo altered in committee .. It was but a measure for the completion of the act , oflS 29-anact wiiich had his cmhal concurrence at the time , and to the principle of which he still subscribed . ., ¦ : Mr ; Wyserepudiated , as a .-Roman Catholic , t 7 u tenet which Mr . Finch had represented as « nj > - ; ui 'the . Catholic creed , viz ., that the Pope hits supvesan dominion' in "temporal ' matters . Hwv . ;\ M' sikiIi a . doctrine might-have obtained in tin : ilx ; -k « : •! . ¦» . it

    held no ground now , either heroovjn . | 'rolt :- ; af < iiv Roman Catholic States . v After a speech , in imposition , from Mr . Coiquho'in , ¦ JMr .- 'O Co . fS £ r , i < explained ti ;; ii ¦ -. asok ( Vwdom was afforded in this country , to poisons wji . o h ; :. \ assumed the conventual garb lo-abandon their profession , i > at any timvt thrj rhoss ; . B ? then d < j * Sni » led the character of the Jesuits , ; i ! lirmi'rig that r-boy had in ail ages been cosfpicu'jns foivtheir learning and piety , aud hud - effe'ik-rt - more lor ' the -iolercsis of litfrature than bad been performed by ' any otfiftr body of men .

    Untitled Article

    ^ Hr l 4 ; v 1846 . "V THE NORTHERN STAR . ^_ - ; 7

• Citation
  • Northern Star (1837-1852), March 14, 1846, page 7, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1358/page/7/