Northern Star (1837-1852), 26th April 1845, Edition 1 of 3, Page 8, Untitled Article

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  3 = ^ ISSsS S ^ iSHiS ShKCw ** the second reading , that ^ omnnttee £ 3 ? £ appealed to inquire into » e nature of the ^ , ef ^ e ^ ci / us ; Sh 6 ^ caiYe , e «^ u ^ ementfroin ^^ dtoira . Tos ' s bffl for the . purpose of ^ inpoweriHg the&mJHesof j-ersons killed thronghflie negligence of othtete to jiecover compensation in damages at the hands of a " jiuy / was reid a second time , and referred to a committee to ' consider of some alterations which the Lord ' Chancellor teUev « jd to be requisite Irefcre it couiupass the
  
  boose . ; •; - . . - Some other business was disposed of , and their lordships s ^ onrnea .- ' j ; . . Tuksdayj Apeil 22 . Upon lord , DAtHocsiE ' e moving the third reading of the Land Clauses Consolidation Bill , Lord Brougham renewed , at much length , the objections he has often urged to the constitution of the Railway J ) epartment of the Board of Trade , which , as he contended , had . frustrated any advantage which , might hare been ezpected from the
  
  establishment of such a tribunal , ana increased and exaggerated all the evils it was intended to prevent . He complained , too , of the undue facvour shown by Parliament to railway speculations ; ana would have preferred . that it should , as in Prance , have taken the whole'subject into , its hands , aha greatly restricted the number of railroads to be undertaken , instead of affording , by measures like that at present before the House , every possible facility to railway legislation , ana removing every difficulty by . which " the ! exercise of the extreme powers of companies against individuals had been hitherto obstructed . He gave some
  
  instances oftteliaifeMpstownich smaUpropnetOTswere exposed ; aii'd ' announced his intention of proposing a clause by which' some of the " systematized "injustice " latei ^ introiluced would be obviated : ; " Lord BiLubcsrE declined to cuter again upon a discussion of the' constitution of the Railway Boar d , or the amount , or the evils of railway speculation ; a > id contented himself "with giving a positive contradiction to most of the allegations -nith which Lord Brougham ' s speech had alxJim < le < l . * The reports of tlie iaflvrav committee ^ would
  
  prove whether those of the Board were useless ' or not . He contended that it was absolutely necessary for the formation of railways , that such powers as the present bill bestowed , ' of taking- compulsory possession of laud for the sake of materials , and of deviating from the intended line where it was found expedient , should be' granted ; and denied that there was not ample security against oppression , and sufficient means of recovering the fullest compensation . The power of making' deviations was especially ' necessary , as companies' were not allowed . pre « out ! y to survey tlieline . '' ' ' ' ' '
  
  " Lord - \ sdbceton consoled Lord Dalhousie for the reflections which had been made on the Board over which ie ' so ' aHy ' pr ^ sidefl , and regretted fliat the provisions of . this KH did not apply to existing as well as to future railroads ? . He complained of the monopoly of thVcarrying ' trade on the Sputh-TVeitern line , and suggested that prisoners and lunatics should not he convejed . in the same -carriages with ' other passengers . ' : Tfie 3 ) nkepfBEjOFOET thought that the interests of the public bad not been sufficiently protected by the Bailway BoarijC and that several of their decisions had prcmatnrdy leaked out . '
  
  . Lord TVixcuiLsEA defended the Board ; and Lord Campbell also approved the bill , lie complained of the practice on some railroads of charging high passenger fares , ' 'but carrying " goods at merely nominal rates " , that they might ruin the canal companies and ' remarked upon the notice generally given , that the company would not be responsible for the . damage done to carriages intrusted to their care / as liable to the grossest abuse . Lord Beoegham replied , and the bill was then read a third tjrae . . ' : . ' ' ' Two clauses , which his Lordship afterwards proposed to add , met with no better fate than his opposition to the bill : aad tlitir Lordships then adjourned .
  
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  HOUSE OF COMMONS , Fiudat , April IS . After the presentation of a great number of petitions against the Maynooth Bill , the adjourned debate was resumed by . < .. - . .-nr Mr . 3 . Crawford said he advocated the voluntary principle , and objected to all grants from the national funds to any church-whatever . This grant must be viewed as ' a -permanent endowment of a college of the Catholic Church , to a certain extent , and it had . been acknowledged by several members that it could not be expected that the endowment of the Catholic Church would stop at that endowment of the college . It was not reasonable to expect that it should do so , audit was very reasonable to expect that all other sects would chum a similar endowment . He was of ophuou that the voluntary
  
  principle must prevail at no distant day . He was aware that the Catholic clergy had on different occasions denied that they w « uld accept State grants , but he could not hut think that while the Catholic clergy accepted this gram for ^ laynootb , they would , on some future occasion , accept aid for themselves . The language that had been used by the hon . member for Cork in the Repeal Association , and b f some hon . members in the house , was grounded on the principle of restitution . Tithes were originally in the hands of the Catholic Church , and if this grant was to be given on the principle of restitution , it mi ght be carried so far as to restore the Church . No one was more hostile than he was to the Irish Established Church . Hethoughtit a grievance of a monstrous character that the whole revenues , originally applied for
  
  ecclcsiastf cal purposes , should be monopolised hi the hands of a small faction ; but at the same time he was not one ¦ that would take the revenues of that Church to establish ¦ another Church . If the revenues were to be taken from ; the Church , he would demand that they should be appro printed to national purposes , but'lie never trouldagree that they should be appropriated-to another Church . , It was wholly contrary to the former declarations of the Roman Catholics , that they should acceptof money which was extorted from the pockets of the people of England , ¦ as a means of supporting their religion in any way whatever : and most undoubtedly ., there never , had been such perfect -unanimity shown in opposition to any ' tneasure as had been excited against that which was under discushe of
  
  eion ^ and contended that extension civil rights of the people of Ireland would have done much morfesiroulliaii any increase" to the grant of Maynooth . In Ids opinion , it would be most degrading to the people of that conn try , in the . manner in which it appeared it Trouia . l )* accented by their leaders . He most decidedly mast ! oppose any grant of money to any college which was . of ah exclusive character , and surely , if the Roman Catholic Church required that their priests should be educated in a college by themselves , it was not too much to expect that they should maintain it themselves . ¦ . As a Mend io Ireland , and as a warm friend to civil and religious liberty , he would give his rote against the second reading of the bill .
  
  • • Lord C . Hamilton supported the bill , reminding the house that the 600 , 000 dissenters in Ireland received no less than £ 35 , 000 of the public money , while the Roman , Catholics , numbering seven millions , received only £ 9000 . On every ground of policy and justice he thought the hill should t > c agreed to . - Mr . yivsrz opposed the bill , because he was averse to ehurch endowments of every description . If they wanted educat ion , let them ask for a grant as extensive as they liked , and he would give it his ardent support . Don't let ' them , however , tell him that this was a grant for educational purposes . Education ,- forsooth ! Education of whom ! "W hy , of a few Roman Catholic priests . ( Hear , bear . ) And who would these priests educate ? Could any gentleman iu Ireland , or elsewhere , inform him that
  
  it was the principle and the practice of the Romish priests to communicate the education which they received to those who were their flocks . Did they educate them in the Holy Scriptures , except upon their own plan and principle or invite them to think for themselves ? ( Hear , hear . ) He was deeply anxious that all men should receive an education hut one broad principle was , that he wonia never consent to pay for another man ' s religion . ( Cheers . ) The proposition now before the house would create no satisfaction . Itwouia disappoint the whole country , and gire satisfaction to nobody . Therefore , he shouia oppose the paltry , pitiful measure . One extraoi-ainary reason which had been advanced in its support was that alleged by the noble lord the member for Nottingham , shirej'xvho said that inasmuch as the Government had
  
  thought fit to holdup ihe cup of bliss to the lips of the ¦ Roman Catholics , this house was not justified in dashing it away . What I were the House of Commons of England —the representatives of the people—to be told b y any minister that they had not the right to judge of the measures of that minister ! No ; sooner than do that , it would he far better that they should at once return to . their comfortable firesides , for . the House of Commons would no longer be of any use—their occupation was gone . The minister might govern as a despot , and , the sooner the country knew . it the better .., ( Cheers . ) If die people of Ireland wanted . their priests to he well -. educated , why did they not do it themselves ? That ques-. tipn had not yet beeii answered . It had been stated that upwards of ax millions a year was - spent , out of Ireland , byajfeenicts . If that was the . case , were the . people of England . to be . blamed for refusing to contribute their monev for the education of the priests ! Now , the people
  
  of this country had a great feeling on this qnestioa , and ¦ he considered that they were quite right ; for there was' a strong disposition' existing to go over' to the' Catholic " faitli . '' T 3 rei ) laces of worship-in connection' with that faith-were much 'increasing ; and its profeSsors endear ' -- ' voureatb { inare proselytesi wherever they could ;' But , thdugh ' ne ' TSaii ' aa advocate for r ^ g ib ' usliberty / ' ne would : * ¥ }* . w ^ rK" * , * P . fy .- / ° f their . ^ npport . ; , He thought the - ¦ :: P ^ i ^^ pfp ?? i ? Mr F * ¥ SM > ir 7 ^ E ! ®? . 9 ^ 8 ^ ^ A ^ "! 0 * ^ . afS ^ e . of ^ h » d be ^ called on to pay for its sqpport ; ootflf flijjon ^ idate ^ fund , ^ { Cheers . ) - / , ' - " -. ' . < ¦ -Si 2 ^ -, 2 «* ^ ^ focftted , the neceVsity of improving the «^ 9 « Wi ? ffid ^ pffte Mege of 3 fayncH ) th . . . « - ate * ¦* £ • 9 H ^? , m supporting the tdl £ " denied that the ^ & ^? J& ^^ *^* &' * 6 S&u& * tini 6 * m eati ¦ ' K& 822 S& 3 & *? ? . * P < J ^ S'tnrwni = % id = ihAthe ' taS ^^^^^^ S ^^ SSS ^^* ' ^ ™^
  
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  Sir F . Tbestcii advocated the course , pursued . by Sir R Peel i n ' reiference to-this measure / which heiwarinlyi Supportea / - ' > " ¦¦• ¦ " ' " - '¦ M-- ; .:--- -i- ' - ; "' - '¦ ; ! i : i ¦'¦' ; ¦ ¦ - i'M ^ Mr Cobden Sad carefully ; examined thebill , and could ' find nothing in it to justify Mr . Sluntz in designating ! it as a trap into ; which the liberal members supporting the bill haa fallen i nor could he see anything to warrant the assertion that there was any intention , of endowing the Roman Catholic'religionj The grant appeared' to he en . , tirely for the purposes of education ; The whole question resolved itself into one of £ 17 , 000 in addition to the ordiu nary grant of £ 9000 , and he firmly believed that ? the excite ment raised against it had'no parallel'in the historj- of pettifogging persecution ; He would not only _ support thei present biU ; -but he would also vote for a grant for aeadf * . micai institutionsprovided they were to be" founded 'on _
  
  , sound principles , and were to be colleges for the diflusion of useful knowledge . Like many other hon . members whoineant to support the bill , he had received numerous communications informing him that he wasabout to gite ahid vote : ' It'wduld , however , be a conscientious ^ Otte in favour of a people and a connb-yfor whose sufferings ; M had ^ always felt the deepest sympathy . " ' ' ' : : Mr Ferband rose to support'tile principles ' prdfessed l > y Ministers ' for inany years wlien they were undermining the power of ; their predecessors ia office , to judge the Consen-ative party out of their- ; own mouths , and to ask the people of Great Britain and of Ireland to call upon their Sovereign to dissolve'the present Parliament , and to giye them an opportunity of having their sentinients honestly aiid sincerely represented in that house . He read the declarations
  
  made by several of the present Ministers at the late fferieral electipn : , in wMcli they Ikiastcd that tlioy had saved the Church of England from its open enemies , and its still more dangerous and insidious foes ; and contended that there was how one universal cry tuioughout the land , that those ' Mnistcrs were the insidious foes of that church to' which they pledged themselves' to ' be zealous and faithful sentinels . He' also quoted ' ' several' extracts from the Tamwerth nianiiesto , to show that Sir R . Peel had pledged himself to principles diametrically opposite to those of the party which he had deprived of power . . By those pledges he 'had . entered upon office . with a majority of . ninety-one—had niched power fromXord John Russell- ^ and had filled the countrv with hope that . he would , to use his own
  
  words , ' ? walk in the light of the British , constitution . " tie asked whether this hill was coiicoeted in the light , or in the darkness of the British constitution ? He next referi'ed to , the speech made by . Sir R . Peel , in . J 829 , upon introducing the Catholic Relief Bill , for tke purpose . of showing that . ; hc had then promised that he would . give no sanction , and show no favour to any religion but that wluch was incorporated with the " State . Had Sir It . Peel adhered to that pledge ? He . also read an extract to prove that Sir Robert Peel . liad at the same time prqvided that thetitle of Archbishop and Bishop should not be assumed by . the . prelates , of the Roman Catholic Church"i and ' showed that he had
  
  violated his own provision by the , 17 th and 18 th clause of the Bequests Act , which he ' contended was arioktiou of , the Act of Settlement , aud a contravention of the oath of supremacy . _ He insisted that ihe great Tory party had received no benefit froni the accession of its leaders to power , but that it had been continually , deceived and betrayed by them . He applied to them the character which Lord Stanley- had . applied to their predeeessoi-s in o £ 8 ce :-r- , " They had conceded one day measures which they deemed mischievous the day before , and had , thus , alienated their party , until they found themselves compelled , from sheer weakness , to throw themselves into the armij of mea from whom they essentially differed , and'whose course of action they believed to be most prejudicial . "
  
  He asked Minsters , where was their former majority now , and replied that they-would find when they-went to a division that the larger portion of their former supporters' woiild be arrayed against' them . " | Jle called on Sir Robert Peel as a man of honour to go overatbncetoL . qrdJ . llusseU , andnottbi'aghispaity any . longer through the . Tsennel of apostasy . lie complained of 1316 manner in Avhich Sir James Gra f - ham had introduced the naniebfher Majesty into this discussion / and read to him the lecture which Lord TT . Egerton ' gavc some years ago to Sir J . 'G . Hobhousefor ' a similar unconstitutional in'occcding . He concluded by declaring his belief , as a sincere Protestant , that if her Majesty should be induced by the present Government to put her signature to this bill for the endowment of the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth , she would sign away her right and title to the British throne . ' : : ' '
  
  Mr . Sheil adverted to the fact that the Catholics of Ireland had always aided the dissenters to get rid of their disqualifications , yet to the dissenters , the Wesleyan dissenters , it was , that the agitation against this measure of concession id the Catholics was to he attributed . Theywere ' idways fercmost in thcnn- Christian , because' uncharitable , endeavour to keep alive fanatical resentment against their Catholic feUow-rauntrymen . He was not much surprised at their pursuing such a ' course , but he confessed he was surprised by seeing the' same course' adopted by the Free Church of Scotland . He would not enter into the benefits of the present' measure , ' but would call the attention of the house to the evils likely to follow its i-ejectionl The dissenters of England and Scotland would rejoice ; but he warned them
  
  that in another Parluiment they would find that the union with 'Ireland , called " by courtesy the United Kingdom , ' ' could never be maintained < No one ' could ' doubt'that its rejection would give an extraordinary impulse to repeal agitation ; not because the "Irish people would- ' care about the rejection ' of the xueasure ' pp-se , biit because it would afford proofto demonstration of the fact that Ireland could not hope to be justly legislated for by England . It would , in that case , appear that the Catholics of Ireland ' were to lie govenied , ' not by the me ' mbers of theEstabhshcd Church , but by the fanaticism of the Baptists ; thelndependents , and the "Wiesleyan Methodists ; and they might rely upori it there wbnld be found people in Ireland who would tell that country that even Me itself could no longer be tolerable under
  
  circumstances' so'degrading ; ' He appealed" to ' the house whefherj not only this measure , but even ulterior : ones ; of a similar character , were not preferable 'id ' ¦ a civil war ; not that he anticipated such a result from the ejection ofthisineasure alone ; but it was scarcely" ' wise to risk ' even the * remotest possibility of a calamity so full of horrors . r Mt / Law spoke for some time against the measure . Mr . TiDroconBE opposed the measure , and was at a loss to know what answer could be given to' the petitioners against it , numerous as they were almost beyond precedent . He . wished to put one or two questions to the house and the Government ; not any inquisitive or impertinent ones , such as had been put by the hon . member for Northamptonshire . ( Hear , hear , from Mr . O'Brien , and great laughter . ) He
  
  was not going to ask whether il the noble lord the member tor ; London had brought in the present bill they would have opposed it .: He believed that they would have burned the noble lord and the Pope in effigy . ia every part of the country . ( Hear , hear . ) He would not ask them whether if they had brought that bill in their hands to the hustings they would have been here to-day to tell the tale . ( Cheers . ) He would not ask these questions , and for the best of all reasons , as the right hon . gentleman the recorder would tell them that no man-was bound to criminate himself ( laughter ); but he should like to ask whether these innumerable petitions that had been presented to the house were to be treated as so much waste paper ?« ( Hear , hear . ) Were they or were they not a representative assembly : and , he would ask them ,
  
  could they point out an instance ? in whicn so many , so numerously signed , and so honestly and respectably signed a mass of petitions had been presented against any measure ? He asked them , did they suppose that it would be an answer to these petitions for gentlemen to get up there and merely say , they blamed the ministers lor their duplicity and inconsistency , and then to vote for this bul ? ( Hear , hear . ) He was surprised at the gratitude that some of the Irish mem-> ers had displayed for this miserable , this paltry and beggarly grant . ( Hear , hear . ) He had understood before Ithe proposition was made that the Roman Catholics disdained to be the liveried lacqueys of the state ^—( cheers ) , but jt appeared that they were now ready to prostrate themselves before the golden Imomi toIiiMi tliA riirlit hon . baronet Lad set iiD . / Re-~ J -- - - -wr-
  
  ^^^^^^ - ^ ^^ ^ f ^ hA ^ fe ^^^*^ ^^^^^ ^^ ^^ ™^^~ ~~ — — —T — _ — — — _ — ^ . _ ^ . — ^ - aewed cheers , and cries of "No , no . " ) His hon . friend near him ' said " no . " He hoped the Irish people would also say " no . " If the people of Ireland and their leaders were so grateful for this boon—if their hearts were overflowing with '" the immensity of their gratitude , why did not their representatives come there and tell them so ? ( Hear . ) They heard it not from their representatives , but they heard it from thosfe who originally held office under the Whigs , and who now appeared to be playing extremely well'into the hands'of the Tories ^ ( Great cheering *) iNovr , he ; wanted to hear , not by ithe newspaper reports , but here' in" this house , and m the face of the commons of England , that this was considered by the people as a great boon : for which Ireland would be ; for ever grateful , and that repeal would begiven up ; : ( Hear , hear ) . There was one other question as regarded these petitioners . 3 > W thfey think thatit would be an answer to them , to say that
  
  they could not refuse their consent to this bill , because the rejection of it would carry with it the'loss ofthe present ministers ? Did they think that that would » - a complete answer to the ' people of England ? Now , 'however much the right hon . gentlemen opposite might flatter themselves upon their own peculiar merits , "he could -assure them they were grossly deceived in regard to this' impression ' . ( Hear , ihear .,: and"knghter . ) - He could tell them' -that the ; people of England would riot' break' their hearts ; if the loss of this ^ measnre " carriea < also" with it the loss of thepresent' administration ( renewed laughter ) . He wanted to fenow-what-was to be'donewith this bill ? Was this 6 nbnnous mass ' of- petitions to be treated with perfe 6 tci 6 ntmpt , and'merely as somuch waste paperV ( Hear ; ' near ^ Hei / Strongly recommended tehiM& to look about if / ' - ' ( Cheers : ) E& did net think that-they could play tracks * with- the ^ peoDlei Heaid ' not-tnu » k that'HhiS houw'waj'sufficiently * &&ctedby'th ep >(^ le , 'as ; ta > erDiitf &mto actjas ffie ^ adught'pjrtptjriiii respect'tothiflibill . ' . ( Hear , Keaf . ) " Ife' - a&fiofr ^ thint that iftey-could = with impunity refuse their acquiescence to the wishes of the
  
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  people . ( Hear ^ hc » 4 ^ e beiieved'that therehever was any Parliament or-House-of-Commons .-so-hated arid detested . ( Laughter ))? c Siffl 4 ie thought that if thJBypcKeveredvfithtUDBieasureagaiMt . the ^^ opihioWof , the people , tliey woultttVue-tM day for theirtem ' erity . ¦( Cneerfl . ) ! No , : thoy . couldn 6 t believe it ' any more ' than the right hon . gentleman opposite w 6 uldben ' eve , ' but that-thepeople would break their heavts if they retwedi frovtt ' office . H ( Loud laughter . ) Dependruponit . thatif ' cithey . did , nof take caije ; sqme day . oranotheiv those rotten : Wajls , ; Wpuld be . ! madeto rattle ) about . theirsearsi ( iNotwithstandjng all ' , tb , ose charges of > intolerance andi . bigotry ^ no . twithstanding their . alleged desh-ento perpetrate ! injustke- ^ -wluch charges were levelled , against those , ; who pnposed thia
  
  bill—in - . the . face of allithe ? e' allegationB , which he knew .-to bs . as-unfair . aSithey-w . ere Unfounded , ; he ( woud * resist this .. bill asilong as it -remained upon the . table ofthe house . ( Cheers . ) .. / . ¦;; Lord J ., Russe ^ -said , after the ; numerousi . letters he lid received froia . hfe . " constituents , M' feSulil ^ nqt consent to give hU vote 'in' opposition to the' sentiments of , a greatpiany of them , and in fa \ tiur of the measure " of .. the :. Govemmerity , without ^ statuig , the reasons which guided him . to his decision . " ' The noble ' loFd ' rasorted .. tq ; ,. ' m ' anifro ^ tue . p , rgumfehfa already ad >; ducedjiri thexqui-se of the debate by other honourabl y members , aim . alluded . , to the smallness of the grant ' to Maynboth ^ . which , in ' the aggregate ,, did ' notexceed : tlie . revenue , of three , of the Irish ! prelates of the rh-hW ftriflnWfid Established Church . Unless thev
  
  were prepared to' carry out the spirit in which the grant to Maynooth was first , establMed . 'they must ia coiamoii justice , go back to tlie Repeal of the Union , andrestoreto . IrelaMhevpa ' rliainerit . 'JJnder these' feelings . the petitions' on the' table ; however numerous , could riot induce him to , vote against tlie bill , wlu'le the , object' lie' held' in ' view was truth ; freedom , ' and justice . He had / little % ' gairi By the course hewa ' spursuing : He would' lose the fa . vour ojF'the dissenters , while the gratitude of the Catliblics ^ yould , according to tlie ; brdinary cours ' c ^' -W ' ¦ nature , be giveri . to those ' who had th ' e power' to , serve them , rather than to'those wlib had the will without the power . He ' c ' omplairiednotbf this , but he wasp ' rep ' ared to legislate' for the benefit of the community ; without reference to the feelings ' which might be
  
  created persoiijiljy towards himself , and , therefore , it was that he was now prepared tovoto in' opposition to the niimerous petitions upon the table . ' ' ' ; , | ' Sii R . IsGiis opposed' the . measure ' on ilie ¦ grourid , that he . believed it would ultiinately lead'to the endowment' ofthe RomaiiCathohV . CnurcliJ- ' . ' . Sir It . Peel said , " manyof tlie oppdnents ' of theinea sure , on liis side of the ' house , had ' fett themselves called upon to ^ ao ^ opt that course , utterly regardless of couseg . uenccs , ' . in .. lhe exercise pf . a ' , conseient ipus duty : lie honoured , them JPov , this , however he iiiigh ' li regret the loss of thai * support . . On . tlie ' . othcr ' side of the houiio /' also , there were numerous , examples of gentleme . n equally ready to risk all th ' eur" ovfn personal interests with their constituents in ordei- ' to . suppprt a measure whicli they
  
  believed calculated tphenent . the public . . At'the same time the house '' riuist ' heliev . e , tliat iibthiiig tiutaserise ' of duty fiQuid induce the ' Goveran \ 6 nt to risk everytMng oy proposing a . mcasuve such as ' tjiiii which was on the '' tal ) le . Tlie . rig ' ht Hon . barcinot then . lyeht on ttf state tke grounds japon ' . " which' '" . Government , had , pi-oceeded . in hringing the hill hefpre '' the housel So ' sqpn ' as ' they had' quelled tlio , agitation ! , in , Ireland , in 1843 , ' aiid ' vindicated the law , they . felt th ^ tj tlicn . was tlie . time , When it could / not be said tjiey were actuated hy fear , ' tb taW the ^ y h ' ole condition of Ireland into poiisideration with ' a ' yiW ' t 6 its im .-5 \ vo \ 4 mcvit «\ The «! ffeiy of , tl \ 4 li vevy fitst' mmute ; the Charitable . Bequests Act , Svas to' Weak up the formidable . c ' omhinatipn which existed betwoen the clergy ^ laiiy , and ' physical strength of Ireland . Such a result gave ample encourasc ' nient "to ' persevere in tlie same' course , and
  
  liencc tlie "' pf oposjtfen for endeayouriiigj in ' the spirL £ " of kirid ' ness , to place Maynootli'upon a footing more couspnant to the riiquurements of thVliisli ' pebplo . ' The miserihlestipend of £ 9000 a . yoai' was irisufflriient to allow ' o ' f any ' other tlian ; theological education , ' atid that theology was obliged to be cpnfiried to polemicsj Was i ' t right tliat tliis state of things should be continued ? or what priheiple . was violated by renderihg . the studettts ' iand ' professors morecpinfbrtatle 1 IIo DGlievcd it to be for / the interests otyea . ee , good . order , and even for- thel » enefit of the Prdtestant fellgioni to make sucii arrangements ' as ¦ i youldiesult , in . committing the religious education of the people tojmen grateful to . the Government ' for its liberality , ' instead of to men '^ mavting ilndeiv ' tlie' ' nviscrabli" ^^^ hitherto allowed to jfayiiooth . This'ineasure'was alone , ahd 8 tood bhtively oii'its owli me ' ritsi' tt was ribpartoi
  
  any ulterior plan for endowing the Catholic clergy , nor Avas'it intended ' to facilitate -endowments hereafter ; He would even say he saw great difficulty in the way of : endowment' The Catholic clergyand'laity declined endowment ) and the denion ' str ' atioris agaliist it on the part of tlie people of Englatia ^ VeVe ' such as io render it extremely difficult if he had it iW coritemplationj' which he \ vad n 6 t . But at the same tune he would <; not place any futute Government in the difficult position of being told that he ( Sir B . Peel ) had said those difficulties : were utterly insuperable , 'i ' It was sufficient to say ho did not contemplate endowment , hutthe hon-. haronethadoorightto call upon him to-saythat the existing difflculty . wouldr . einain . al , vvays insuperable ; ' He ; would not refer to the . itaunts ; ofMrJ
  
  Macaulay ; ihe would prefer to follow the example of . Lord John Russell ; and ; refrain . from ; everything > that could create any but ' kindly feeUngs . -Ho warned'the . house that 'they ' must break-up . 'formidablpucombination . ; in Ireland-against'the British' OovernraenCi . i .-Hoiald not "think ' they couki ibreak ; up that / . combination , by force ; hut it might- he ; broken : up ; by doing justice to the people , i iWhen ^ he found it necessary ; to" refer sometime ba ' cfc to a' cloud winch seemed : lowering in the west , and to ¦ declare that England had rights : and was prepared ; . to maintain them , it gave him great consolation to 1 'eflect that on the previous day he had sent a message of < pcace to Ireland . : j "¦ ' , [' ¦ '< . ' •• ' !' , ' , '•' tlieriglit lion , baronet resumed his ' scat ' amidstgencralcheers . ' ' '¦ ''* "¦• ' - : | ' ' ' ' ' ¦ ' ; ' r ¦ ' - '¦¦¦'
  
  '¦ The house then divided— :. ;; ¦ ¦ : .: '• . For thevsecond reading ..., . ¦ ,.,. 323 ; i . ' : > . ¦ . 'Againstit ., v ; , ... , "; ¦¦¦ . j .. > ; 176 i '¦ ¦ ¦ . "• - ¦ Majority-for . Ministers ; ,. i !!\ : . ; ,... , . ——14 : 7- . ; The house then adjourned . . ; ;¦¦ :.:. .. .. ¦ '¦ ; B 0 ^ SE ; 6 FC 0 MM 0 ^ ' | iI ^^ j Mr . T . Dpncombe irough ' tVor-fvarda motion to rescind the 11 th section of ! Stanain * brder * No . 37 , which requires
  
  coimnittces ^ p ' r ' ailWa ^ - bills' ti ' miCko' a ' specuil ' repdrtofthp reasons j Whic ^ i inducc tho ' committee fo' adopt or reject the recommendations ^ oi ; Ihe Board of Trade ' . ' His object , in ' jpriopbuiiUinij " tliis ' motion was , that ^ t-hc house ' might come to a distinct unders ' tariding of tlie ' relation in which it s ' tpodAvith respect to the Board pf jTrade ] whose 'deei-: sionsliad given great and ' gpneral / dissa ' tlsfactioA . ' ' ¦ ' Sir 6 . Clebk ^ efehded . i \ ie ' reports of 'the railway de «; parteient of the" Board'bf Ti-Ude , which repbrts / h ' e bo -: lieved , gave , v . ery general , sa ' tisfactidii . He opposed tliemotion as being altogether uhriecessaiy ; ' '" ;
  
  , ¦ , After speephes -from Mr . iabpuchcrCi Mr ( Qlad 8 tone , Mr . ; Gisborne , ' anaCblbn 6 rSiMIiprj ie ^ ' - ' : . ' . ' . '' . < . Mr . BEKNAt said he ' did nbttjiini that . Mr . Dtidcouibo ' s resolution : yvoul 0 t e ' ffeict the alteraitip-iisSVhicto ^ Kp ; deemed requisite , and he , therefore , ' moved as an amendment an address to the Crown , praying that all papers ' of the Board of Trade , relating -to railways should bp iaid ' . b ' efor - s the house , and , that parties interred might be firnislied with copies at their own expense . ' . " , \ ' "' i Lord Howick seconded ' the ' . amendmeiit . " ; ; ' ; J ; ' ' ; After some further discussion ' Mr . l ) uHcombo replied , and withdrew his motion , in ordev to ' , make-way for the amendment " of Mr . Bernal , which he' was willing to adopt . The amendment was then put by the Speaker , and aereedto . . . ' ... ' . ' ,. . ' . " ' . : . ; . ' . : . ' ; .,
  
  . -. . . THE . HATNOOTH'BILL . s * . ' .. ! On the motion , for reading the orcler of the day for taking into consideration tlie grant to the College of Mayr nooth ,, . , t ' ' . '" Sir B ,. Incus opposed commencing a discussion of such importance . at , such a late hour as a ' quarter past ten o ' clock . . It . would be unworthy of the magnitudD . of ' tho subject . to press it forward at such an lipui " , and he must therefore persist to a diyisibri if his request of ' postponement were refused .. ' ( ' . ... .. . Sir B ; Peei , said , he . wouid ^ nptplaceitin the powei of any one . to say , ' thf t he had hurried the ' measui'e Ihrough the house . - After the manner in which it tad ; been received hy the house ' iarid . hy the . public , ' he felftha't it
  
  assumed a feature of vital importance . He would , however , agree to the postponement , but would at ' the same iiiue . 6 ay ; tha / tb . e was resolved to , persevere ,, and would bring forward no other Government business . until this bill were carried ; thr , ough ., tho house . .,, . He ' felt , howeVer , that he . was p . ledged . to state ' the ' butjino of . the n \ easure which : the Government contemplated , with respect to banking in Ireland , ami Scotland . Tlus ^ te would do on Friday , but lie hoped that the house would be satisfied | to hear the plan « nd to abstain . from ! all discussion , in which . eventtiiey , _ might proceed with tie disdussidn ' of the Maynooth : grant then . He . jwquld suggest taking Wqdr nesday , if possible , for . the Mayuoothgrant ^ but he had no power of precedence on that day . " ' . ' ' ¦ '
  
  Jtfr . Cowper , Jtfr . Watson , Mr .. T , ; Duncomhe i andliOrd AfiUey agreed to waive tlieir , precedence on We ' dncsdpy and in consequence Sir R . Feel withdrew his motion , ' and fixed the . order of the day for . the committee on Maynooth for VTednesday . , . . . . ' , " .. " ' ' . '' - The ( Customs ( luiport ); Duties Bill was read a third time and passed . ¦)¦ ; . , ' -.. ' . ' . " ] , ' . ' :. . The remaining business . ou the . paper , was then disjio ^ ed of , and the house adjourned . ,.,. . ' . , . I i
  
  ,- " . ¦; . ' , ., v VTuesdaV , -AeRii' Wi ¦'¦ j • ' ' The house saionlj" for a short time , and no business of importance was ' transacted . : ' ' ¦ ¦ ' ' . " ¦ ' - ' ¦ ' ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ . : WEDNESnAI , -ApBli . 23 . , - ; ' ' [ ' J ; The house met at four o ' clock . ' i . : i . , ' ¦ ¦• ¦ ¦ ' : - ' ¦• ' ¦ ' ¦ ¦ ¦ < y : ~ - ;• ¦ ' . ;¦;' .. ! . ' ; . , . i ¦ : ' : . ¦ :.. ! . ¦ :. vNBW . WRIT . ,.,.,.. . ' . ' • Ontheinot . ipn tqf . m \ T :. EgertonVV iiew ^ $ as : ordered : for ( the ; eleQtion . pf a burgessi- ' to ' serye ' lbr the borough of :. vyoodstpek , ; jin tHe . - i ; ooin ' of thp Marmiis of Blandfor , di ; , who , hk , accepteaVthe ^ tewafdshitf of 4 he ! Chiltera ; B [ iuidfedg . 1 ;(; V v , '' „;„ ,.,.. . . * f "' ¦ J '¦> ¦ •' : Betition 8 / ag ^ - ^^ furthi ? r ., grafflW ^ were . presenMi §» m ; a . grgaj . jijimher , ' of pMea' M 0 * tonto ^ Q pto ( : P ^ e ^^ wMbiiiMr . ; S . / Q'Brien , . ^ . rrbtherop : Mr" JDeniBW West Surrey ) , ! Mr . Sajte § on ;^ r . T . Funcbttmji Mri Pattison , "Mr . Hawes , and Sir R . H . Tnghs . - '
  
  Untitled Article
  
  gSS ^^ ' ' . ' - ' ¦ ¦ i ' " *—jVlr . ' iJikulev ^ -. presenited 111 , ! petitions' a ' gahisi the M ^ n po ^ tgrant . ; , ";; . ^ ' , ; -, V- / " ... .- . . - i-i \; -jy- / u'i ' i \ ! .. rcOOT ) ITIONiJOP-. IHE ; iABOURINGCIiiSBBSi \ . -, ' ;]¦ ¦ . ¦ Lord J . Russell said he would , on Monday . next ,, put the house in possession of the preoise nature of the resolution , h , ? , fended to , njoye on tho 1 st , of May . " ¦ ¦| . ACADEMICAL EDUCATION . IN IRBUND . '' "'i '¦ ' i jijord Ashley said , in reference to the communication inade by . iny rigljifc hwirfriend ' at the" liead of her Majesty ' s Government $ 0 this house last year , and also to his opening statement an introducing ; the proposal of tliis grant to Maynooth , I wish to ask Mm whether it is his intention to hi ' opose any further plan of academical education in Ireland , and if so , whether he will be good enough , either bfefore we go into comimittee or immediately after , to state simply the outline of such scheme ? ; » ; to
  
  ^ ir'RrPi'KL ^ I anr obliged the noble , lord for ihaving given mentrtiiice ' of this question , andlbegto state it Is the intention of her Majesty ' s Government to gi' 6 J > 6 sfe oilier meayures ^ iili'i ' egara ib acadenjkal education in / IrelanaV'irrespective ' of the' measure before'the House ; 'It certainly was my earnest'wish to . pi bce | ed with this' bill before any' other : business , but' f' > M undertake , before' the' third reading , to givei-or that ' some ' mie ' aiber of the Government jsnall gire—a ; general' ' ou ' tlihe 6 f those other f mefa ' sures . ! I' " . .. ] , '' ... MAYNOOIH , COLLEGE . " ' '"" ^ ' \ ' " / \ The order of the d | iy was . read forgoing jritoc ' ominittGe upon the appropriation to be inade froni' the Consolidated Fund for tlie College oi' Maynooth . '
  
  , , ' 0 n the question . that the Speaker ; do leave the , f jfr . "WARDJrose to move his ^ resolution , " That it is the , opinion . of this , house that any provision to be made for tlie ' purposes of the present biU ' ought to be taken ¦ froni the funds' already applicable to ecclesia £ tical purposes ! Ui Ireland . " Hfe waiited ; lie saidj to amend this bill , by . ' grafting on it the" proportion which' he had jukt' read , " ' instead of tluwing it ' out altogether . After ' getting . rid of a , charge of bad faita—which lie said h ' ad been preferi ^ d- against'Mni for having befraybd ' a cause ih which ' lie' Md never embarked—he . prbceeded to . state thafthe " cor ie ' essions which he nbw asked "the house to hiake to'the ' - 'Roman Catholics of Ireland were not of grace and iavou ' r , but of ri « ht ; for lie'was of opinion that they were as
  
  much , entitled to a ' Roman Catholic eHtftblislimcnt in Ireldiill as ' the people of Ehgland were to a-Protestant Church establishment here ; or as the people of Scotland wbre to a Presbyteriari ' cstablislunent tliere . On the samb ground on which 'English' Protestants would object'to the establishmerit of Presbytenanismin England ; and on -vvliicli' S ' cotch Presbyterians would object to tlie establishment of English Episcoeacyin Scotland , had the Irish Roman Catholic reason 'to object to—aye ; and to ' gefc rid of the Protestant Church cstaWishnient in Ireland , which' was a symbol pf our triumph , and a' badge of their defeat and disgrace . We ought to discard all our former foul pre- ' judices , and as we were embarlung in a new ' course , ought'to . take ^ c ' arfe ' that' we -did not embark in a ^ ronff 'bnie : ' As we were also acting oh a'progressive
  
  principle , we ought , if we 'tbbk this step at Ull ; tb' ^ ue prepared for'a \ Yiia couiiequehces , anilto ' cbnsiderhow we cbiild settle " ; 'brice' for all , the just claims oi' Catholicism in Ireland , ahdsbreconcile'the opinions of thc ^ eople of England and Scotlaridtq it . He then viewed tlie ' opposition'to ' this ^ xcasure in three lights rr first , as resting on ' thb ' voluntai ' y principle ; secondly , as resting on religious scruples ; arid then'as resting ; on the hbtipri ' th ' at the ' money n ' ecessary to carry it into effect ou £ ht not to' be taken but of 'the general funds of theriatibn ' r After showing that there ' was no force in any' of'these three classes of objection , ' he prdceeded tocoritehd that the house plight to accede to his '' amendment as containihg'the only ' safe metlidd of reconstructing the Church establishment , of Ireland . The only obstacle to that rcco nstructioivwas the state 1
  
  of feeling ' out of dooi-s . To tliat feeling no one'dared to give utterance in that house ; for if any man did , it would justify a revolutiou iii the land to-morrow : He tlien commented with great indignation on'the language used by many of the petitioners—on the speech of Mr . M'Neile at Liveiijool—on that of the Rev . 'Mr . Robinson , the rector of'St . Andrew ' s , 'Holhbrn—andori . those of several' ministers of Dissenting congregation ' s recently delivered in London ; Such sentiments in the mouths of Christian ministers were the abomination of abominations , and filled him with unutterable loathing ahd disgust . < He was sorry to say that nia ' ny men ofmirid had lent themselves to this agitation ; aniong others , Mr . Cola . uhoun . Avho , teii yearS ago ' , inade a speech' at - Exete ' r-hall' very different from ^ the mild and gentle speech which he
  
  had delivered a few nights ago iivtliat'house . He then showed , that'if there had been any breach of faith as to the compact ihade at the time of the Union , it was hot or itiiepart of the Roman Catholics , but of the 'British Government , as ' Lord Cornwallis ; hadat that tinic distinctly promised to the Roman Catholics of Ireland the payment -of : their dergy , i and as tlie only obstacle to'the fulfilment of that pro- ! inise' had' been' the-irisanity of ! Gooi'ge III . Up to 1810 the Kirig ' s'health had befen the sole-bar to Ro-. man-Catholic emancipation ; but then the- cry of "No Popbry" became' a party and a political cry , and'thus ' it ' was that brie after another all the benefits bfthe'lTriion-were lost . Now , whcn we' were slowly ; coming- bade to the" state' 'of things forty-five years ago ^ " arid ' wheh ? all the statesmen in tho house deserv-4 ¦
  
  ing- '' Of- the name were approximating to eacn other , ' tlie country ' was to -be kept from" doing justice ' - " 'by the revival- of 'tliis party cry . ' -He contended tHafc the resistance to this measure did' - 'riot' rest ( on its ' - religious ' grounds . He thought '' that the resistance would : have" been less had the irieasure itself 'been' largei' / for at-present it . avowed ii principle which it did'iiot carry out , ' and fixed a ' taxation on-the ^ ^ country which ; he said / ought to come but of bthei '; funds . The siini wanted Tell shoit ' of ^ £ 56 , 000 , ' arid fell short of that which was provided by Lord-Mbi'peth ' s bill for' suppressing the revenue of those parishes in Ireland'where there were less'thaii fiftjr Protestants . He then showed that the whole ' income of'the''Scotch Church , ' which' had 3 " 000 . 000 of soiils t 6 provide for . was £ 200 , 000 . and
  
  that the income of the Church of Ireland ^ which hail 'billy SOO . POQ Protestant ' s' 1 to be-pix ) Vided ! for , wafe i £ 6 S 0 Jpp 0 .: " H ^^ ied -th at by a i ; e-disMbiitioh ' oi ' "SBfl ^ i ' operijy . an ' arrangement might ; be made for- ' thfe erecti ' oii ' " aiid" endowmbnt of this' College" of ( Maj | - 'hooth , without ^ mjury * tb '' ahy interest ; whatsoever . He' theii sliowcfd that there were' 860 benefices with less'ihan 50 ' Protestants in each ; that thpif iricottic amounted io £ 58 ^ 000 ,- wliich sum'was available "fdr thK endowment , without having-recourse to" any taxation on the people' of England 'and Scotland . The-Bishop ' s lands too were another fund .- They had been formerly frittered away under the managelnchtof trustees ; but now that the income derivable fe ^ mHKeiniiaidbeeriraisecl from £ 16 ; 000 to . £ 800 , 000 a-year , the house woiild be responsible for the mis' managemerit bfthem , ifsbnte portion were not
  
  applied to educi ' itio'rial ^ purposes ; He denied that there was any bbstacleto such- an appropriation in'tlieStli article of the Union with ' Ireland . ¦ ' He thought that Sir R . Peel ' s speech on Friday must have made a bad impression in Ireland , as it led to the conclusion that England ' s weakness was Ireland's strength , and that we would yield to ; force that which we would- not grant to justice . He said- that . in bringing this amendment forward it was not so muoh on account of the money as of the principle affirmed in it . If Sii ' R . "Peel : would give him the . principle , he would give him in return unlimited credit on the Consolidated . Fund ) until there-construction of the Church property was completed ; In conclusion , he called on theT house-to concur with him in his amendment , as it would remove many of tho objections to this measure , ' and would bo indicative ofthe futuro ^ course of the British Government . : ; ,
  
  . ' ., Captaini M . Bekkeley , msecondmg the amendment , ; wavned those who might be ' inclined to raise the ; ci'y of . Church-spoliation ahd robbery , tHat they might raise by it another more mischievous' cry in Ireland—namely , . tliat ' of Church restoration and . Church restitution / ; ¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ : ¦ ¦ /• -. -. -..- 3 ii ' , T . l ? BKMANiiiE complimentedMr . Wardon his consistency-in ' persisting in bringing fonvaixl tWs question through good report and" evil report , but ebujd . npt . congratulate him on his having chosen an opportune period for its introduction at present . If the house should assent to , his amendment , it would Have to begiri ; again all that it had hitherto done , and of that tact , Mr . Ward : himself , ^ eemed to be aware ; for he liad said that ' if Goy ^ rhme ' nt . would hut affiiiu his principle , he would then" eive them , as
  
  far as he -was concerned , ' . an , unlimited vote of credit on the ^ ponsolidated Fund until the period when the ecclesiastical fund was able to repay it ., ' He was obliged to inform Mr . "Ward that her Majesty's Government could nqt . be . indiiced 'l ) y , such aVbribe' to sacrifice the ,. iniportant . principleinvolved in liis amendment . He , then took- an historical revie ^ v of the debates on !; this subject , from the , period when . Mr . ^ ard brought it forward originally , down to ! the year 1843 , when , the house was counted out'upon it , for-the purpose of ,. showing that , the principle for ,. whicli Mr .. Ward contended had made very little , progress , in the house and in the country . When he first brought , it forward there was a majority in , its favour ;; it was then introduced into the Tithe Compensation Bill ,, and > vas carried for two or three years-afterwards as part of that bill through the House .. of . Commons , though it ' was * eiected as regularly in the House of Lords : but in th ^
  
  year 1838 it was left ^ out ^ and Lord Morpeth and Lord J ., Russell both made excellent speeches—from which ' he rbad extracts—in justification of the policy of abandoning it ; " ThisHvas a bill for the eridoSvment bf'tlie Roman .. Cathblib Colle § e at-Maynbotli , and k ° . ^? " } , ' » Pon ' tn . c : Vusc ' . P ass it- without aniappropnation . clause , for the Very same reasons which * Mi --i . v-l ^ " ? , e * ° ^ ss' %° Tithe Compensation . $ " ¦ " Wi , ^ ilar , ' om % ion ; :: -Havitig spoken ! fox * ^^^ . ^ te ^ caVilityofMf : Ward ' s ptiri-M JmPMiH then' fa < Suea 7 to 6 bject tofthe prmciple ' itsel ^ l'becauso'iB involved the question of appropmtiM bfattthe Churchprbpgr ^ iif Irelana-to MPan . , athohc ntirpbs > s ; ^ 'ne . co ^ t ' endea tha't | th ' e affirmatwii . of ' sich " a fririe'iple , ' wb ' uld Io iv % r 'iheiaii- ' thohty . . o ; f JarliaWentlwbuld ^ htiirifeh ^ hc'influirice of GovelrhinjE ! rit , ' and w 6 uld sha"ke tfie ' confidence . of the wHole ' conritrfiri'MSe ' cufitybf every other ' kind of property . He deniM' -that Sir ^ R . Peel'had ever
  
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  ss ^ == , .... •¦ rejected the argument ' against tlie ¦ appropmhon clause , 'founded bh"tlie 'fifoh clause-of the articles of , Uiiibni MHvaB ' p'fe % a ^ refer to the ' speech ? to Which ' Mr ; "Wardhiid alltided ;* if Mbpersiated'in'that ddclariitioh : He ' alsb' ^ hbwed that' ( Be 24 th blauste of tW Catholic Relief Bill ; which''provided 'for-tho inviblability of the Estabjisihed Church ^ f England-and ii ' elandi ' waa eiiually bppbied both'to the- appropriatibn clause ^ aiidt 6 tlm'amendment , whioK wasbuta , corollary from it . ' He'denied that 'the Irish Church was tlie monster grievance , of Ireland , as somccontended j ' and read several petitibn ' i'ft ' om the Roman Catholic preiates and clergy of Ireland , " to show that that neither was the feeling nor ought to be the'feelirig of the RpMn'eathohc ' population . lor these and many other " reason ' s 'he ' felt it' to be his" duty , on the part of tKe Government of which he was a member , to . meet this amendment with a decided negative .. 1 <;' - : " - ' ' ' - ' ¦ ; : ' i : tw i : ; V'" " ; ! "
  
  ' ¦ Sir W . - Ja . m £ s followed on'the same side , but'said that it was "his firm opinion 'that the ' subject'of the Irish piiurelrniust , before mah ^ years elapsed , come seripukly iinder the consideration of the house ' . - H © Idmehted ' that there should be a necessity for takingsuch a subjectihto bonsideratibn ; buthe was convinoGd that tho MugG ' could not escape from it if ii rfet ' amed any regard for a sense of'justice . He had received many representations' from his constituents toi'otei " against this biU ; but he was compelled by Ibeliings ' oruuty- to withjioW lus aasent . irom their requisitions . " ' ¦ ¦ . " - . ¦ : Mr . Milneb Gibson was glad to find that Sir Walter James saw further into futurity than Sir T . Freniantlo , and that lie was convinced that'its would
  
  be necessary before long for Parliament to take into its consideration the state of the revenues iof the Protestant Churchin Ireland . . The principle for which Sir T . . Frcmantle ; iia ( l ' cpntettded went the who le lfehgtli ' vof asserting , that ; tlie Church property of Ireland' was so sacred that it must not be touched , even if there were hot a single Protestant in Ireland ; but if tl&t were , true ; how had it come to pass that the house had given 25 per cent ; to the landlords of Ireland out of the property of tlie Church of Ireland by the Tithe ' Compensation Act and' the Vestry Cess-Act ? He agreed with Mr . ' Cobden that this ques- ' tion of endowing ^ Maynooth was not a religious , but an educational one ; arid he therefor ^ felt justified iii ' grl ^ jne- his siippb rt to it grant for its cndo > rnjent .
  
  Even dp . 'the principles of *' the ' petitioners against this bill , lie felt justified in supporthig it ; To make reli- gion a ground for not granting assistance to education at Maynooth , was to make the religion of Ireland the ground' for r excluding its inhabitants from civil advantages . ' He thought the proposition of- Mr ; Ward to supply funds for tlie edweation of the Roman Catholic priests from tho 'funds of the Protestant pliurch in Ireland a just one ; ~ and as its funds : were more than sufficient to supply'the spiritual wants of it ' s congregation , lie- could not see why the houso should refuse the -remainder to general purposes . There was not a parallel . in the world to theProtefetant Church in Ireland . It was the greatest ecclesiastical enormity in Europe ; it was an insult to tho neotile-of Ireland , ' , and anei'manentbadga of
  
  their subjugation'hHd oppression .- So long as ifc remained in its present condition , he could not consider the . Irish question settled , even by , the two conciliatory speeches which liad'been made upon it by , Sir R . Peel and Sir J .. Graham . ^ ¦ .. . , , ..: Sir John . Walsh was not certain that' lie . understood the , logic . of .. the last speaker '; but if ho did , he inferred from it that Mi \ MDuer Gibson wasopposed to Gliuvch . establisliments altogether . Now , he . was a Mend to Church establishments , aiid he l-esisted this amendment ,. . because hb considered that it struck a fatal blow , not only . against the Church Establishment in Ireland , but in . this country also . He then proceeded to ' take . a ' yiew ' of the state of society in Ireland , and . of the , pblicy . by . wliich Ireland had been
  
  governed for many years past . He shbwed . that it had lojig been dirlcled into tiro great parties , and tliat it would be impossible to xestbre peace between them while you left in either of them a feeling that equal justice had hot fen done to both . The duty of the Government was to act as mediator between them , and not to take advantages from one party to give to tlie ' bther . He therefore deeply regretted that Mr . Ward should have tacked his amendment on the present bill , which had been * wisely introduced by Sir 11 . Peel -as a healing measure for Ireland . What would be the effect bt' his success 1 It would 'convert the biiyebraiich into a firebrand . He trusted that in'passing this bill , Mowo'd up , as he knew that it would he , by otliDW of a soothing effect bn ihe' Roman Catholic
  
  population , Sir R . Peel would" still consider himSelt irrevocably pledged to the inviolability of the Trotestant Chin-chin Ireland . ' - ¦¦¦ " ¦ ' Mr . MacauliW was anxious to explain his views on ' the subject bf the . Established Church in 'Ireland , as he hald Tiftvcr licfovc had an opportunity of doing so , owing to his absence from England . The amendment' of Mr . Ward opened the' whole ofthe question whether the Protestant ' Cliiirch there was an institution whiclv ought or ought hot to be maintained . ' When tlie Legislature ' was called upon to decide whether an ¦ institution ¦ ought to be maintained , the ; first' thing ' 'to bo 'inquired into wasj" whether lit-was a gbod'br ' a' bad'one . His deliberate opinion was , that the Protestant GUuvch
  
  in . li ' eland was a bad ; and a ' verv bad institutionnay , ' more , ' that of all church / institutions in the world that ' of Irelahd was the most absurd and unjustifiablfe . ' ' iTotlenpuhcecl all the arguments whicli had been' used that evening in deferiee ofthe Church of Ireland -as mere shifts to evade the objections which had ''Been urged ' against itv They had not heard one gentleman say ; "The Church of Ireland is a good institution ^—it exists' for such , and such purposes , and I will show that it answers those purposes . ! ' Hehadnever read a'iiy defence of the Church Establishment ' either'in' England or in Scotland , wliich was not in itself a bitter ' satire on that in Ireland .. . The travellers-of every . country in the world who visited Ireland'declared it to be an abuse
  
  of such magnitude tliat nothing like it was to be found . NoAvhere else , either iii' Europe ' or in America , did the Cliui-ck of the ininority enjoy such . exclusive privileges . In governing a Church ypu should not think more of five rich than of one pboi' / man , but rather more of five poor than of one ricli ' man ;; -and ' yet'this was exactly ' what we ' had long been doing in Ireland . He ' contended that a ' popr niah could not have religious' 'instruction . ' and consolation on" tho ' volunta ' ry . principle , because he had not funds to' pay for it '; - that he ought , hot' to' hay ' e it on' chavityi' because charity was precarious ,. ' but' that lie ought to have it frbhi the State as a matter of ' right , and riot as a matter of grace and favpur , hecause ^ it was important to the'State that" he should Be ' well' and religiously
  
  educated . All the arguments which he should ' , use in defending' the Church- ' of England ^ and : all the ' chai'&es which ho should nmko in assailing ii , would ' apply ' with double force as an- attack on ' the Protestant" Church of' Ireland ; 'for it revereed the text' of Scripture—it filled the rich with good things , and sent the hungry empty away . , He also objected that it was a proselytising Church ; for he well recollected 'that some years ago , when we were ' abolishing a certain number of its bishops , Sir R . Inglis observed that wo ought not to abolis ' h them , for there was an . expansive force in Protektantism , which would soon increase the number of
  
  its adherents , and renderthe whole number of bishops necessary . That might have been a good argument in tho mouth of Cecil soon after the Reformation ; but it was wonderful to him how gentlemen of-great ability could use it after this Church had existed in Ireland from 1560 to 1845 . He asked whether the Church had not been guarded during all that time byprotective lawsand by penal statutes , and whether it had been victorious over the old faith , or was con fined to the difficult task of defending the old Englisn pale ? Where . it was ; 200 years ago ,, there that Church was still ; it had not been victorious , it had not erevi defended its own ... If he were a Roman
  
  CatholiCj he should say that the policy of Heaven had been victorioYis over its worldly assailants ; but what was ho , as a Protostant , to say ? What was he to , think of the strange war , in which reaswi , backed by wealth and power , had been defeated by ignorance and superstition struggling under poverty and . oppression ? Moreover , the Roman Catholics of Ireland were not mere Roman' Catholics in name : their religion had a strong : hold upon their hearts , and they were move devoted to it than any other Roman Catholic population in Europe . That was a succession of effect , to causes ; for ; the Protestant . Church had been quartered in a hostile country , where it could not , and did not eyeri attempt to , do : its-work . Protestantism had earned
  
  its triumphs ; m other Roman Catholic countries by means of translations of the bible into the vernacular tongue ; but the Protestaut Church had existed in Iveland 135 years before the bible was translated into Irish ; and . then it \ vas translated , not by the wcll-endowed Protestant Chur ch , but by the great and good man , Robert Boyle . The whole ofthe history of > this Church was of one piece .. Scarcely one-tenth part of its clergy were , resident ; and ho quoted a well-known sentence of Swift -to explain what were the occupations of its bishops in his days . They might know how the . revenues of one Irish bishoprick had been squandered in their own days on the shores of ; the Mediterranean from the pages of Lady -Hamilton ' sicorrespondencO v whilst the Roman Catholic clergy were healing the sick and consoling the dving in the hovels of the peasantry in . Ireland ,
  
  exposed' to hunger , and poverty , and disease , and liable to oppression : from every ; petty Protestant squireen . He showed that the Irish .- mind waslnot to be turned from its attachment to Catholicism by the machinery , which the Protestant Church had provided for-that purpose ;' and ; then ,, proceeded to , show that the same machinery had been equally ( unsuccessful in- procuring -peace and . harmony among the different ; classes : of society . If } . then , theTprotestant" Ohuvch in Ireland had not , answered , the jend 6 fgiving religiousinsh-uction . and consolationtothe iinhabitailts ' or Irelahd , i or ; of . making prpselytesj or of procuring the peace of society , , wb ^ , had it done ? If that question ; could . notbe answered , ^ h en he must be allowed'to-call the . Protestant Church . 'a ' bad ; institution . There were , > however , - bad ' - institutions which ' you could ' not ; . i ; udely ; . idesteoy , i because they were" deeply : rooted . in the affections of the people .
  
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  But was that the case with respect to the Pmf <> t , f , . Church in'Ireland ? - Certiiinly not .- ¦ ]/;¦ .. , ¦ the Ol , ; tibn which the house had to considei 1 was tl ! i <^" what was the best mode of producing mupn wiv " two countHes different from each other in raliiri ^ r ^ Iphe History oj England afforded' ^ an . usS fe' ^ Upon that pointy , England had long been connect *! ¦ with two-countries differing from her in n > i ;« L England had tried to force the Anglkn 2 T \ ' religio n , on . bath ., Rebellion folIowSfe ° , ' andalso in Ireland ; , : In Scotland the rcbc £ S [ successful in . conaeauence of . tho leadm of it ar i ^ . inconcert with those of , the English Parliament ' ! matters of . religion ' . But the restoration came iZ with it the Anglican system was restored ; and tiim " e ^« Pf . siidi : jpwm M * .
  
  ^^^^ on me one nana antt ol such outrages on the otlier Z 'the worldhadscarcel y ever . seen exceeded . Tlie niPn began to find out that institutions' were made fn * men , and , not men for , institutions , Then cainc I wise Boyereign , who listened to the just cleniands a ? the . people of Scotland ; , and since that time -M enmity between Scotland and England had ccasprf and the oldest man now living did not recollect tii ' utterance of a , wis , h for the Repeal of the Union he tween the two . countries .. Would ' that ' have been the case if Scotland had been governed in tlie < $ ]«» manner . in which Ireland had been governed ? Ov would . England , if engaged , in perpetual struH , withScotland , have ever risen to its presenttranrlpm . ' ? Entertaining these opinions , he should give his sun . port to Mr . Ward ' s proposition . " That proposition
  
  long-by a Liberal Ministry from principle , ami bv a Conservative Ministry fromfear . Sir . R . Peel had taught , on . Friday night an . important ^ lesson to the people of Ireland—a . lesson wluch Ministers oii"Ji ( fQ bo . slow . to teach , because the people weregencrafl v too proiic to learn it . He had told the people of Ireland that the only way to . obtain concession from him was by agitation . Too long liad that been the policy of England towards Ireland . He instanced this by ' reference to what had occurred in th £ American ' wai ^ in the war of the . French revolution , and subse quentlywlicn Catholic emancipation was granted to prevent the possibility of a civil war . A short time then intervened , and a . Ministry was in power pre
  
  pared to do justice to Ireland . Again the cry of : " No Popery" wasi-aised , anil a party was raised to power whicli had regularly liialigned all' the mild policy of the Whigs towai-ds Ireland . The coiintrv . was looking for ' . severe ineasurcs towards'that couii " trj' , Avhcn out came a scries , of cbneih ' atory inehsurcs ; and > yhen an explanation of the change in the Torv policy was called for , all the explanation given was that the monster meetings in Ivcla ' iul were very for . midablc , and tliat there was an apprehension of war jwith the United States . This , concession was thc . i'cifbre made . because Mr . O'Cbnhell . and Mr . Polk between them had made the Government of England feel very uneasy . He ' asked what was to Ijc the . end of a policy which yielded nothin g to
  
  principle and everything to fear ? The "IVhigs had been taunted with servilit y to Mr . Q'Coiuicll , but . lie defied any ' man to say that the late Government had ever produced any measure whicli it could not justify on principle . They thought that the revenues of the , . Church of Ireland might be apprbpriated to tlie general purposes of the State ; and that , appropriation they had proposed and defended bii principle . They , thought that the repeal of the Union would be dangerous . to the safety and intogi'ity ofthe , empire , ' and Lad said upon principle that to that . repeal they would never consent . His advice t ' o . tlie Ministry was this— "What you are prepared to grant ' , grant frankly , - . what you are prepared to withhold , withhold resolutely . It will not be onsv
  
  to wrest it from you ; but ' , there is a way of conceding which only excites contempt and invites exaction ; arid he was afraid' from the' experier i ' ce of the present , that many years would not elapse before iliat machinery would be put . in ibvee against the Ministry , whicli would compel them to grant much inore | than this paltry grant to Maynooth . liis opinion was , '; thatif there should be a chance of rebellion in Ireland , ora war with , the United States , the present Government would deal . with" the property oi the Protestant Church , in Ireland , and tliat Sir ' R . Peel would be the Minister to bring down to tlie house a . bill framed on-this motion of Mr . Ward , Some honest ' man might quit office rather than support such a measure ; but there would be no dif .
  
  ficultyin finding a successor , who would change his opinions on the subject at twelve hours' notice . Sir R . 'Peel ' would' tlieii tell us ' . that he will not bo moved by any taunts , coining from the Opposition side , of the house , and' then tlie Chancellor of the 'Exchequer will exclaim ; that as he ( Mr : Macaulay ) had foreseen the extent of the inc 6 » sistcncy of lvliick Ministcre ; would be guilty , it did not faU ' within his pTOvineo , to reprove them for it . He , therefore , entered at this moment his protest against the practice of granting in time of danger concessions wliich you would withhold in times of peace , If the next niail . from Aniorica should bring tidings that the Oregon question was amicably settled , he would give neither more nor less to Ireland than he would give
  
  if she were hi open rebellion arid thirty sail of flic line . were ' , riding in St . George ' s Channel in open defiance to . ws , _ He should vote for this concession oi Mr .. Ward , which ought'to have been made long , ago . It would be granted ' when it was too lale , when . it would only seiye to encourage agitation , and it would bo considered ' by'the ' world , not as an act q £ national gi'eatiiess , but of national weakness and . disgrace . , .-.- ¦• ¦ .. •;¦ . , Sir J . Grauam was . surprJ ^ ed at the speech which Mr . Macaulay had jus ' f delivered , as he had given his warmest support to . this measure on a former occasion . So far from' thinking' that iihe Irish Church was an' evil in itself , and ought to be destroyed , lie thought that it ought to be maintained .
  
  lo defended the inviolability of the Protestant Church in ; ifeland on the compact made at the Union , and showed by quotation frbmaspeeeh of Lord John Russell in 1838 that he considered it to be an Integra ? part of . the . Church of . England , and held that it ought to . be maintained , ' although he was in favour of a re-distribution' of' its ' revenue s . ' He could not conceive any ' ciraim . stanees ' which would justify the resolution tp ' whick Mr . Macpiulay wished the house to come On this subject , and ; therefore , he should meet his proposition with' a deckled negative . This was the first time that a proposition had ever been made to . transfer the . property" _ 6 f the Protestant Church , to , the maintenance ; pf the Roman Catholic Church . It had often been ' suspected that such was
  
  the object ' of the appropriation clause ; but it liad always been denied that there was any justice in suck a ' suspicion . He had foreseen long ' since the consequences wluch . would follow the proposition of the . appropriation clause ; and' now the house iad them distinctl y avrayed before it in a proposal o destroythe Protestant Cliiirch . ' He implored tlic louse not to commit spoliation ' on tlie Church of Ire land in . order ' to'indulge its benevolence towards the Church of Rome . The sentiments expressed tliat evening b y Mr . Macaulay wore pregnant with evil m the present , state of . aftiiirs . lib concurred with fe Macaulay'in what he had said respecting the Repeal of the Union , and' believed that it was the resolution of tke house , expressing the sentiments of all the inhabitants of Great Britain , and a majority ot those ol Ireland , to resist such a measure to the utmost , even though the empire should be shaken to its' foundation in the course of the struggle . He
  
  denied Mr . Macaulay ' s assertion that tliis measure had been , extorted from Government by fear : and repeated his former assertion that it had been planned , and announced by Government long before there was any . apprehension of a misunderstanding witli America . JS either was it brought . ' forward nor announced until . tlie uovermuent hadput down the monster meetings , and reduced ' the agitation in Ireland withinlimits which no longer left any reasonable ground for alarm . He believed he spoke the sentiments of his colleagues —he certainly spoke his own—when he declared that he could not agree , with tlie right hon . gentlcmau that the Irish . Church was a bad institution and a nuisance . He could not admit for one moment that it . was , an evil and . ought to ; bc abolished . On the contrary , after the most anxious deliberation , lie was confirmed , in tho opinion that it was the duty of tin ' s country to maintain the Protestant ' EstahleM Church m Ireland . He was decidedly opposed i « tl « motion of the hon . member for Sheffield .
  
  Mr . Roebuck contended that Sir J . Graham bad give . n no answer to the , arguments of Mr . Macaulay . Ihe Church property of Ireland was appropriated for certain uses , which . uses had signally failed , and it therefore became a question as to what was to bo done with the property . The hon . and learned gcn tlenian then proceeded to repeat the argument of Mr . Macaulay . that Ministers were giving a triump h to agitation in the course they were pursuing , tor they were impervious to reason as regarded the justice of the Irish claims , Svhilc . at . once conceding eyerytking to fear at the first light cloud wliich appeared in the political horizon . When they found it necessary to yield , they even then , only yielded bit by bit , and always too late , whether ' the concession was to the people of England or of Ireland . It only required , that the hon . member of Cork should terrify them a little more , and a fair adjustment would then be made of : ecclesiastical property for beneficial pu ^ poses , . without the slightest injury to anv person . whatever . ..,. ; :,. „ ; ( Cmitinued in our fifth page . ) -
  
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  ,.,. Officem the . saihe , Sfreet ' akil ' Pansh | for the Proprietor , FE ARGUS O'CQM q Ri ' Es ^ . Un ^ publislied bj . ., . s yriLLiAX . HB , mix ofyo ; 18 , ! CaarIes ^ tr ' eet , Bra ndon , j - f ^ iW ?^ , Withe ^ aristi o £ SL Mar y , Newing-• i ) tqnj , ; in the . Connty of Surrey , ' at ; the Office ,. No- 3 W < v :- .-Strah ^ , in the Parish , of ; St . 'Maryile-Strand , in . the ' ' * - 'OilyofWestniih 8 ler ' - '' " r , ; :: ; ,,-.: . .- < ¦ ,. r , ' < ¦ ' ¦¦ ' ' ' ' '" ' . " ; i :-. ; : ¦ : ¦ ;;! , - ¦ > . . - - , - , . - , .. - ;• Saturday , April 26 , WIB , , ; ,-. ,
  
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  it A . BKraEEir . ' -. A meeting of those holding cards ol the National Charter . Association , will be held on the 29 th of April , at-eight o ' clock p . m ., at 15 ± , Gallongate . , . . . . , .
  
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  ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦ T . . _____ ^ ---- ^^^ ¦ - — - Apbil 2 fi , 1845 .
Citation
- Northern Star (1837-1852), April 26, 1845, page 8, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1312/page/8/

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