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Northern Star (1837-1852), 22nd April 1848, Edition 3 of 4, Page 8, Printed fey DOUGAL M'QCWAN, of 16, Great Windmil.* street, Haymarket, in the City of Westminster, at tht AffiflA !.. *Y.n ciA«vn C"l„.i 1 T» • T *• .1 -n . . uuitcin auuiu oireei ior tne

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    • Printed fey DOUGAL M'QCWAN, of 16, Great Windmil.* street, Haymarket, in the City of Westminster, at tht AffiflA !.. *Y.n ciA«vn C"l„.i 1 T» • T *• .1 -n . . uuitcin auuiu oireei ior tne
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      Crown And Government Security Bill. Spee...

      Me E . Emee , jua ., felt bound ta uy . after P « ra »* the evidence of the eommittee which unstated tneJaw members , that it _presented a _parallelcase to * atol xar-< n & _: ( Hear , hear . ) In both , tke freemen ¦ " _»»•»•** proved to have beei corrupt ; an d tb _« was no more evidence in the Yarmouth cm . to justify its _dfsfranchisement than ia the Derby . Sir J . HAK « i said thst there wa , an essential _» _CeSJity » rpnza . hinff ««« nch _ooBatlHunetU M should he proved guUty of corruption , and no longer to act Son _Se principle of punishing merely the member _, elected by these corrupt bodies . HecaUed upon the _go-Tern _' _ment to remedy * malady , which , as much as any Other of the bedy politic , required to be _remedied . of should

      Mr _Huhe urged that _anequalmassure justice be dealt out to all corrupt constituencies on _sometmiforra principle , and tbat while eae corrupt boroug h _, was _ditfraacbhed _, another should not be permitted to elect a new _member , as _Bawdley was allowed to do . He contended that Derby ought to ba placed in the 6 ame category with Horsham . It v . as _peculiarly the duty of government to see to this matter , at a time when so much atten ion was being paid to the question of the representation of the country . ( Hear , hear . ) He moved that the writs for BErby ba suspended until a full inquiry had been made into the whole sut ject . ( Hear , hear . ] The Earl of Likcol * supported the amendment , and expressed his hope that th * noble lord at the head of the government wonld lose bo time in inquiring into the matter .

      Hr _Childehs _, as chairman of the Derby election committee , begged to say that the committee had not recommended the aisfranchicement of the borough , because , although brhiery hsd bees , so donbt , proved against nine-voters _,-cad-there was a strong case of suspicion in reference to about 200 out ofthe 400 freemen , yet , as the consrtmeocj _numbered _2 _. 0 QQ , 1 , 509 of these being £ W householders , against whom _thsre appeared no taint , it had been considered unjust te the 1 , 700 or 1 , 809 voters to disfranchise them for the fault of the minority . He shonld , on the same principle , oppose the suspension of the writs .

      Lord J . _EusiELt observed that the committee appeared to have decided that there were certain ca 6 ei in which bribery had been proved against the freemen of Derby , and that there were other eases far more _nnmerous in which bribery more extensive had not beeH proved , though it was strongly suspected . He considered that so much had betn itatedin the report of the eommittee as to render it fitting thst there sheuld be a further Inquiry into the corruption of the freemen of that borough . He therefore agreed with Mr Hume that the issue of this writ ought to be stayed . He could not take op the inquiry on the part of the government , in _eonseauence of the multiplicity of business by . which he was overwhelmed at present ; hut he hoped that Lord Lincoln , or some other member not burdened with the cares of _efise , would take charge ef it _.

      Sir E . Fees expressed great satisfaction at the speech which Lord John Russell had just made ; for on reading the evidence taken in this case , he had come to the _oonelusicn that it was quite impossible to refuse further inquiry into the bribery which hsd prevailed among the freemen _efDerbyat the last election . Hr _O'Cokko * expressed his intention to vote for the issue of tha vrrit , thinking that the whole constituency sheuld not be punished for tbe fault of nine freemen . After a lengthened discussion the bouse divided on Mr Hume ' s amendment , wh 6 _n the numbers were— . Ayes _1 S 9 Hoes ,. 43 Majority in its favour ——156 So the writ was not allowed to issue . Psojected _Pacteb _Psocessioh . —S'r J . Y . _Bclm * begged to ask the right hon . baronet opposite whether he eould give the house any information on the subject of a projected procession of 100 , 000 paupers to be headed hy Hr C . Coahrane on Easter Monday ?

      Sir _G . G * et said thattaree weeks ago he had _received S letter from Mr C . Cochrane , stating that hehad a petition aad address to present to her Majest y , and that it was his intention to come down to the Home-office , _aecoiapanied by abodycf petitioners , on the 2 tth of April , in order to place it in his hands . He had , thereupon , informed Hr C . Cochrane that any address of the nature referred to might be presetted to him in the usual course hy himself , attended by a few perions , but that no such document accompanied by a large number of persons wonld be received . He had also Informed Mr C . Cochrane that tt weuld not be convenient for him to

      receive any _deputation er address during theEaster week . He ( Sir S . Grey ) had received letters from varioes poorliw unions , stating thatletters addressed by MrC . Cochrane to persons ef the name of Jones , and others ofthe cams of Stci ± , had been received at the wsrkbouees , in the hope that they would find some ene of thtse names in the workhouseB . Those letters stated that the petition of the poor was to bepreientfd by the writer sh Euter Houdaj , accorapuued by 159 , 600 paupetB _, ani hs hoped those who received them would moke every endeavour to accompany the procession . Since that , he bed received n » information that it was Mr Cocbraoe ' s

      intention to resort to any such proceeding as tbe deputation he had referred to , and he ( Sir G . Grey ) thought that ( hat individual might be safely left in the hands ef the police commissioners . ( A . laugh . ) Bastes Recess —lord 3 . Bcssell , in accordance with a promise given by him to the noble lord the member ior Falkirk on a former evening , wonld state the eouMebe wonld propose to the house to follow with respect to the _adjournment during ttie Easter recess , subject of course to the progress ofthe Crown and Government Security Bill . He proposed to move that the house should adjourn on Wednesday nest nntil the Saturday following , aud from that day until Monday the 1 st of May . C & owx a *» Sovzbkhmt _Secuiiti Bill . —The report of this bill was brought np . Ur _AGtioHar moved a clause , rendering misdemeanor pnalsbable fey Imprisonment , with the view to leaving out the words ' by open and advised speaking , ' which was negatived by a _majority of 67 , the numbers 117 to 59 .

      A clause proposed by Sir W . Cut , also in reference to the omission of the objectionable words , and the Buustitation of a proviso , enacting tbat when a second offence was charged , the offending party should not be admitted to bill , was negatived by SS to 39 , majority 44 . The _Attosnet Geheeal submitted a proviso that informations must be sworn within sir ' days after the commission ofthe _eSence _, and the magistrate ' s _warrentissne within ten days from that period , which , after a debate , was _cirried by 143 to SS—mijority 112 . Hr Bright moved u an amendment that the powers of the act should not be invoked , except at tbe instance of ths Iiaw Officers ofthe Crown , which wag rejected by a majority ef 131 , the nnmbers were 49 to 170 . Captain HaeXis moved , bnt snbseqa . ntlv withdrew , a _elause proposing to empower tba givernm _. nt to disarm the people of Ireland of pikes and similar hostile weapons . The report wss then received , andthe bill was ordered ta te read a third time on Tuesday , the debate to be taken ea that question at 12 o ' clock .

      In the course of the debate , Lord Johk Russell congratulated Hr Hume on his first exhibition _es an ironical and sarcastic speaker , aad thanked the gentlemen on the Conservative beaches for tfce disinterested support which they had reeeatlj afforded ministers , and of which _ainisters felt justly proud . Mr Diseaeii , following up tie attack said , he was not surprised at the ironical toneef the hen . member for Kjntrose at the present moment , when he remembered the peculiar and novel _position in whieh the hon . member had teen placed within the last few days . The hon , member was at the head of a _numereus but not very welldisciplined army , end he eould not _cemplaia ef not having sought a fair field on which to _exsrclse than . (« Hear , ' aad a laugh . ) The hon . member was new really in his political youth , and fall of the vigour ef his new birth . He _Vsm about ta enter iato a more active career , and , with a considerable interval of practica with his new force * , he might meet with success . ( 'Hear , * and laughter . )

      CorPEs _aitj > Leab _Ddties . —Tbe Cbaj _? cellob of the * ExC _3 _fgc _£ fi . thea moved that the honse resolve itself into committee of the whole boose on tha Copper asd Lead Duties . Sir C . _Ltaow moved , at an amendcent _, that a select eommittee be appointed to inquire into the effect of tbe easting duties on the importation and production of copper ore . _Thehootedlvlded—fortheoriginalaotion } 102 ; against it , S 5 : majority , 67 . The house thea went iato committee , aad the Chancellos of the _ErcHiftuix propounded resolutions for the reduction of the duties . Hr _Gladrcke said he should not interpose his amendment for the total repeal of the duties until the house Trent into committee en the bill ; in the meantime he * a * shed tobe informed whether the government would be prepared to take a similar course to that now proposed with reference to tin .-

      The Cbakceleob of tbe _Sxcsiqute _, not having _received eay _rerroEeBtationi on tho subject of tin , did sot tae any immediate _aecessity for such a reduction . lord G . _Bestisce " moved that the Chairman report progress , when the committee divided—ayes , 13 ; noes , 77 ; when ths _reflations were agreed to , aad the house _rejumed . Oa the ' motion of Sir W . Soxeivillb _, the select _comsittee on . tke Landlord and _Teaant ( Ireland ) Bill was saainsied , and tbe house adjourned at one o ' clock .

      TUESDAY , Aran 18 . EOfJSE OP LORDS . — State of Dc ? blis . —Lord _Beaoxokt asked what steps had beea taken by the _fovemment with respect to the training of armed men la _Bublln t _TheMarquis of Laksdowkb replied that he had said ex Monday , ia answer to « _similie qaestion , that if there was any training going on it was not ef so decisive sad distinct a character as to authorise the Lord Lieutenant to put the act alluded to _lsst night in foree ; nevertheless he felt satisSed tbat if anything of the sort

      _eotdd be clearly proved , tbe L > rd Llentenan » wonld immediately put that act in force ; and he was now able to etate that proceedings ia the nature of training to the tue of arms had been discovered 8 day or two since , to Bs in _progress in _DubUn , snd before the evening all the persons engaged in it had beea arrested—( hear , hear )—sad any other society assembled for the same purpose arenld ba immediately proceeded against in the same _*»« y- ( Sear , hear . ) It might ba well to-add that _rrsder the provisions of the Dublin Police Ac _% firing J * * raark was illegalaad liablo to punishment . b

      , ( Hear . ) - ' _*""* * 6 & KEA _? ' IB THBLoM > s _- _** -0 n til ° motioa of Lord _efongbcon _^ _t _^ f _^ _^ _EIecfion Bill passed

      Crown And Government Security Bill. Spee...

      On the _BJotien that the _rapure b » brought op , Lord B * oc 6 r >* « proposed _^ the following- amendment : ' That nothing in this set contained shall be ef force , by way of _retrospective or _ejg _' _fiOiJ / _iKto law , to affect any vested interest , or decide any question how pendlBg hsfere any conrt , or is either heuse of parliament . ' Their lordships divided—For the amendment ... 21 Against it ... , „ „ . 16 Hejerity ... . „ —5

      Lord KokteAGLe complained that the noble and learned lord had divided the house , after having stated that it wasnoi his intention to do so , in consequence of whieh several peers had left the house . If surprise * , of this sort were to be practised on her _Myesty _' _s government , all of whom voted for the noble ond learned _lerd's amendment , he shonld like to know how the public _service was to bs carried on f la neither honse of parliament had he ever known an instance of any such proceeding . He would give notice tbat on to-morrow ha would move the bouse to reverse the decision to which ithad 3 uBtcame . , _^ Instance of

      Lord Beodohah said , he _aever saw an a more complete want of recollection of what passed withm the last hour than his noble friend exhibited In bis proper person at this moment . ( _Laushter . ) The coble and learned lord then explained that . In the first Instance , he promised he would take the division on the third reading , but in consequence of a suggestion mado by his noble friend opposite , he stated that he * woala move his amendment . Whether the amendment was taken in _corasaittee or upon the report was a matter of absolute Indifference . His noble friend had said that he ( Lord Brough & m ) had only _whispersd his intention of proposing the amendment , but it was a whisper made _acroBa the table whilst he sat in his plaee . The Loed _Cuakceixob — Aad nobody made tho slightest _olfaction . Lord _Bboooham— Certainly not . Nothing could be more unfounded than the _assertion that in assisting on a division he had taken tbeir lordships by surprise .

      The Earl of Halhicbcbt said he had been in th $ habit of collecting _votis and _obtaiawg the attendance of the noble lords who generally acted with that , the Op . position , side of the House , and he was asked on this occasion to solicit the presence of such noble lords as agreed te this bill . He did so in the usual way , and then inquired of his noble and learned friend ( Lord Brougham ) whether he was going to divide the House on his amendment His reply was , ' I have no intention of the sort ; I only want to record my opinion in opposition to this Bill . ' ( Hear , hear , hear . ) He ( Lord Malmesbury ) then toH his noble friends on that side of tha house that there would ba na division , and that they might resume any occupation that would ba more agreeable to them than the present , without any danger of having the amendment -carried . His impression was , that the noble and _lewned _lordhad not acted as falriy as he was generally accustomed todo . ( Hew , hear . )

      Lord Beohohah ( with great warmth)—My lords , I have only to give my most complete , stringent , aad peremptory denial to that . (• Order , 'aBd laughter . ) I willnotbecalUd to order for stating a fact . I never heard the noble earl say a word of the kind , I heard him ask the question whetker I meant t » debate tonight , and I was told that the debate was to be taken on tbe third _reading . No noble lord could say that I said I weuld not divide . If I did not divide , any noble lordmy noble and learned friend opposite ( Lord Campbell ) might do so . Neither the neble lord nor any human being could say that I promised not te divide . Tbe question was about debating , and I repeatedly said tbat I did not intend to do so _. The Marquis of LAirsDowve was understood to say , tbat no effort was made on the part of the government to secure the attendance of noble lords favourable to the Bill .

      The Earl of _Malhebbuet said he had been frequently asked for information with respect to snch matters , and therefore it was _nataxal that tome neble lords on the other side ofthe honse shonld lijqalre of him . He had certainly led some of them to believe that tbere would be no division in consequence cf what the noble and learned lord had told hirn . Lord _Beuughak— I ask the noble lord whether I said , * I do not mean to divide !' The Earl of _MaIMBsbcbt—I asked , ' "Will jou divide ?' ¦ Lord BaonoHAM—Did I say , _« I won ' t divide V The noble earl won ' t screw himself up to say so . Tfee Earl of Malmeibokt—Tha noble and learned lord said , _« I have no intention to do so . ' ( Hear , hear . ) Lord _Beouohak—Meaning thereby that I had no intention of going into a debate on the clause . ( Laughter . )

      Earl Gbet here came to the rescue nnd the subject dropped . The Crown end Government Security Bill was then brought up from thc _Cemmons _, and read a first time , Their _lordBhips then adjourned to sit on Wednesday for the second reading of the Gagging Bill . HOUSE OF COMMONS . —The Speaker teok tbe chair at twelve o ' clock in order to hurry oa the Gagging Bill . Chartist _Mektiso oh Blickheath . — Mr P . _O'Con-Hea , as an act of justice to the Tihes newspaper , _brgged

      permission ofthe house ta read a note from _Lieutenant-General Napier , wbo had asserted positively on a former occasion , with reference to a report of certain specchts alleged to have been delivered upon Blackheath , tbat no such meeting hAd Heen held . General Napier now stated that he had made inquiry , and found that a small assemblage had taken place on Blackteath for the pur . pose of adopting a petition , and that the _sp-echce reported in the Tikes had no doubt been made at that as Ecmbly . The gallant geaera ! accordingly begged leave to correct the error into which he had fallen .

      _Adjopekhest of the Hocse . —Lord J . _Rcsseix gave notice that at the meeting of the honse to-morrow he shonld more that tbe house adjourn at Its rising until Saturday n « xt . The noble L ~ bi > said he should likewise mevo that after Easter , orders of the day should take precedence of netices of motion ou Thursdays . _Ceowk akd Govebkuent Sicoritt Bat . —On the order of the day for the _thir-i reading of this bill , Mr IIohe expressed great doubts whether the opponents of this bill bad carried their opposition ta the full

      extent that the novel and extraordinary character of the measure required . He warned the noble lord that any attempt to carry into effect the objectionable clauses of the bill , would be followed by consequences much more serious' than he anticipated . The government had pitied two coercion bills during the present _sission and an income , tar bill , but not a single remedial measure . He feared that , seeing these things , the people would be driven to other measures to obtain refoims . He moved that the bill be read a third time tbat day six months .

      Sir D . L . Evahs _objected to certain portions of the bill , but he could not concur ia au indiscriminate censure of the whole hill . ' Mr O ' Connor said : _That-he _v-ould _nov ? attack the civil and military position of the hon . and gallant officer , ( Sir De Lacy Evans ) , - who had just sat down . That hon . gentleman had made a great blunder , and a valuable admission of his authority would be relied upon by a jury ; or if a prisoner under this act could mate such a sweeping defence as the hon . and gallant officer had made , in refutation of the charge brought agaiHSthim by the hon . member-for Finsbury , then he ( Mr O'Connor ) would apprehend no danger from the present bill . That gallant officer admitted having used the words

      attributed to hira , but believes he didn't use them because they were not reported in the Times newspaper . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) This would be a defence that every Chartist may truly set up , but perhaps , the deficiency would be supplied by a police spy or an informer . ( Hear , hear . ) But he contended that the confession of the gallant officer himself , vrould subject him to an indictment under this bill , had it been ia existence in the palmy days of Reform , and then he would have the honour of transportation in company with the noble lord and his colleagues . ( Hear , hear . ) Why , what had the gallant officer told us ? That his invasion of London with 100 , 000 , men was not to intimidate the then government , butto strengthen its hands ; thusproving

      that men alone constituted his notion of crime , because he admitted that he was ready to march upon London—a very military phrase , —it the bill was rejected . ( Hear , hear . ) And then if words advisedly spoken are to be proof of the intent , the gallant officer and his confederates would be guilty of the burning of Bristol , Newcastle , and Nottingham Castle ; and as parliceps criminis would have merited punishment equally with those whose crime was the overt act , while the gallant officer ' s words were the intent . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , no such results from open and advised speaking had taken place or Monday last , while the transactions ot that day , that did not occur , ue made the pretext for this unconstitutional measure—this violation of the Bill of

      Rights—this infraction of the liberties of freemen . ( Hear , hear . ) It was his boast to be able to tell the working classes that the very existence of a ministry was prima f acie proof of its popularity ; because the power of speech and combination , if properl y used , armed the masses with the means of hurling any obnoxious ministry from power . ( Hear , hear . ) Thus , he had been enabled boastfully to tell them that theirs was a constitution worth living for and worth dying for ; but when that constitution was violated in its most cherished principle , by the very men whose boast it was that it was based upon the blood

      of their ancestors , his mouth was gagged , and he darsd not practice such a deception . ( Hear , hear . ) He had asked the question several times , but bed received no answer ; he had asked the meanine of ' OPEN AND ADVISED SPEAKING , ' but not a member in that house had ventured an answer . ( Hear , hear . ) He had stated another fact in answer to the presumed clemency of ministers ; namely , that the bill was a boon , as it was a relaxation of the rigid law of treason ; bHt he reminded the house ihat the law of treason in tbat form , in which it was susceptible of proof , was left untouched , and remained _precisely as wss be f ore , while the boasted boon tsas

      Crown And Government Security Bill. Spee...

      _Tiis : that the proposed relaxation . applied to erim . es which did not happen once in a century , white the increased vigour was applicable to crimes which may happen every day in the year . ( Hear , hear , and . loud cheers . ) Well , then , where was the boon ? Where was theelemenev ? Where was the relaxation ? ( Hear , hear . ) When they were passing the Irish Coercion Bill , he told them that its effects would be to terrify the injured from appealing for redress to the law , lest coercion may be the answer to the rebel offender , and thus the really injured were deprived of the law ' sprbtection . ( Hear , hear . ) He applied the same rule to thia

      law , _thurj—that dread of trenching upon this inexplicable enactment , would close the mouths of those who had real grievances , to complain of , but ¦ which they would smother in pent-up anger , least their open and advised proclamation should subject them to the ignominious fate of felons . ( Hear , hear , and cheers . ) Would there be safety , then , or weakness , in thiB treasonable conspiracy against the prerogative of the Crown and the constitutional rights of the people ? ( Hear , hear . ) Could the noble lord drawtto inference between the desertion of old allies and friends and the ' rabid howl of his incessant and bitter enemies ?

      ( Hear , hear . ) Did he imagine , or expect that , while be was centralising all power within that house , even to the administration of a pauper law , to check , impede , or stop the tributary streams of knowledge which were hourly running into the reservoir of mind , and which , ere long , would break down his flimsy barriers , burst the floodgates of ignorance , and overwhelm his centralised corruption ? ( Hear , hear , and cheers . ) He shewed them before , that the ordinary law was sufficient to _represe what is called sedition in 1839 , 1840 , 1841 , and 1842 , and while panic was the justification urged in favour of this measure , his answer was , that not a political offence had been committed / or

      the last six years ; and , perhaps , this awful stillness had alarmed authority more than sudden outbreaks . But Ireland was to be their battle ground . In 1833 they asked for coercion—that remedial measures maybe administered in time . ' of peace—they had since had the stillness of the grave ; with passive obedience and non-resistance even to culpable slavery , and behold , Ireland ' s long-withheld remedial - measureto make complaint of bitter wrong and deep oppression , a transportable felony 1 ( Hear , hear , and cheers . ) And , then , the state of France was urged ( but he ( Mr O'Connor ) looked for no foreign aid , nor could he be over censorious on bitter denunciation of suffering and famine , backed b y coercion ,

      leaning to burning words . ( Hear , hear . ) There were two points in his speech of last ni ght , for which the honourable member for Cockermouth , whom he Was sorry to miss from his place , had taken him to task for rather uncourteously ; those points were , the difficulty imposed upon thc accused of rebutting words after a lapse of sixteen days , professed to be accurately reported by a spy or informer—while they were fresh upon his memory ; the other was the antagonism which the Attorney General ' s definition would cause between the law officers of the Crown and the committing justice . ( Hear , hear . ) Now the hon . member for _Coelfermoath

      censured him ( Mr O'Connor ) for his furious and inflammatory speech , while , curious to say , he used every one of his arguments , but in milder- tones . ( Hear , hear . ) He would g ive them an instance of the manner in which government prosecutions were got up . At tbe Lancaster trials , in 1843 , while the right hon . baronet , Sir James Graham , wa ; upon the DeBcb , he ( Mr O'Connor ) in the cross-examination of one of the principal witnesses , extracted the fact , tbat the said witness , together with his whole family , had been liberated fiom the workhouse for the express purpose of inciting the people to disorder . There was a policeman also examined , who admitted that he had transcribed the words sworn

      to many months after they were spoken , from the memory of one who could not write . Well , then , was not tbat power enough , without the infliction of this treasonable act ? ( Hear , hear . ) The house had the admission that the progress of Chartism justified the minister in his appeal ; his answer to that was , that those who toil for a miserable subsistence , or withered in the workhouse , were possessed with the conviction that lahour is the source of all wealth , and that a cultivation of the national resources is the primary duty of all governments , and they will not longer submit to see the land of their country a barren wilderness and a desert , while they are ready to make it profitable by the

      application of their labour . ( Hear , hear . ) They will not starve , and see their families starve , while idlers fare sumptuously on their toil ; neither will your _treasoa bill convince the labourer that labour can be justly represented by noble lords , baronets , landlords , and ' squires , with obsolete privileges to uphold , * by admirals , captains , and lieutenants in the Navy , with selfish interests to serve ; by generals , colonels , majors , captains , and lieutenants in tbe Army ; by bankers , merchants , traders , and speculators ; by over 100 railway contractors , chairmen , and directors ; by barristers and attorneys ; by placemen , pensioners , and idle paupers . ( Hear , hear , and cheers . ) No ! such a representation was not in

      accordance with the active genius of the present age . Let the noble lord bear this fact in mind , that while all other countries which have but recently thrown off the yoke of despotism , are granting every point in the Charter , he is trying to _arrent its progress by making its open and advised advocacy a transportable felony . ( Hear , hear . ) How now could they beast of their pe » pJe ' s loyalty to the throne , it expressions of contempt for the ministers were to be construed as treason against the Crown . The ministers were the real traitors . ( Hear , hear . ) The landlords sitting on the opposition benches , vainly hoped to strengthen their position by acquiescence in this barbarous act , but he cautioned them by what was nearest to their

      hearts , lhat , ten days more rain _. and tbeir sun would set . The wheat upon the . cold grounds and clay lands was already perishing , and he should like to know whether bankrupt merchants , traders , shopkeepers , and ail unemployed people , would beahle to spare thirty-three millions next year , to supply the place of what might be more profitably produced at home . ( Hear , hear . ) He had gone with his party , and he would still go with his party , through evil report and good report , nntil he saw a fair day ' s wage for a fair day ' s work , and political power to secure and defend it . As the proceedings of Monday

      had been repeated to surfeit , he again would ask , what obloquy , what taunt and condemnation , he would not have deserved , if he bad skulked like a coward and abandoned his party in the hour of danger . And he repeated there , as he had done elsewhere , that , after thesilly and boastful threats by some poor gentlemen—who were too proud to work , and too ooor to live without labour , and whose order had aforetime _jeopardisedChartisra—that the government was _justified in taking precautionary measures for protection of the peace . ( Hear . ) Ay ! said Mr O'Connor , I understand that cheer , but had it not been for the unconstitutional defiance of the

      government , there would have been no threat to create alarm , and tbe procession would bave passed off as the meeting did . ( Hear , hear . ) But he would refer to precedent , of which the house was so fond . The hon . member for Liskeard ( Mr C . Buller ) stated that Ireland was in a state of incipient revolution , which nothing but the authority of Mr O'Connell could repress , and that discontent would break out into open rebellion upon his demise . Well , then , with this warning , was not the government culpable in allowing the cause of discontent to remain , instead of proposing remedies to avert the danger * ( Hear , hear . ) But as the danger of the passing time had been cited , he would call the attention of the house

      to words which had been used by that deceased gentleman , " iu the presence of him ( Mr O'Connor ) . He said , 'Let me have a petition frora five hundred thousand FIGHTING MEN . and let the hon . house understand that they are determined to fight , but that they humbly pray for redress . ' ( Hear , hear . ) But have not the Whi gs ever been the patrons , the abettors and promoters of treason ? And are not their benches now filled , ay , and their offices too , with traitors of the first water ? ( Hear , hear . ) He then drew the attention of tha house to this fact , and it was strictly in point to the present state of Ireland—in 1839 , Mr Robert Kelly Douglas , the proprietor or manager of the Birmingham Journal , travelled through Scotland with a sample of rifles , and recommended the people to establish rifle clubs .

      ( Hear , hear . ) Mr George Edmonds , a solicitor of the same town , used language equally violent , but instead of transporting them , you gave Birmingham a ' corporation , and pensioned your co-felons upon the industrious poor . ( Hear , hear . ) What said Mr Attwood , in 1830 , inhis ( Mr O'Connor's ) presence , and before . 200 . 000 men ; he eaid , 'Let them refuse the Charter , and with the stamp of my foot , a million English hearts will respond ; and _jjhould I stamp again , 2 , 000 , 000 English arms would be raised for its enforcement . ( Hear , hear- ) Well , what more violent language than he had quoted had been used either in England or io Ireland ? Once gag the : people ,, once put _fettera _apo ta the free expression of public opinion , and _tlwae wonlibe an end to the boast of _thfl British comt & _ution . That

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      would be the effect of this bill , for It 1 would prevent mon _frwaapeakinjf , lest they _ehould violate its pre Sns ! For himself , he ri »> uld leave off _apeaking extem poraneously , he would write his speeches , and read them , and then hand them ever with his comv plimente to the Attorney-General , to make "bat use he _plaezed of ; and ho would advise ail Chartist orators to do tbo same , and heboped _Bomahon-member woald move that they ba printed in a blue book , which would bo much more instructive to the _hous © than man y other books . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) He aDDealed to the noble lord—who , after all , be would rather eeo at the head of the government than any other man , if he had tho % urago to carry out the nrinci _pleB that he had taught tho people to contend for—not to sully his own fair fame , not to derogate

      from tho reputation of hia ancestors as lovers of freedom , by the authorship of a measure like this . Tho Reform Bitt had beea carried , but the people ware now looking for its fruits , and he trusted the _aoble lord would aot disappoint tbem . The hon . and learned member next declaimed _agamstthe principle of centralisation , contending that what the people wanted , and were determined to have , was local power . If he had given to thie bit 1 what waB called a factious opposition , it was because he regarded with terror the precedent that would bo established for hon . gentlemen now on the Opposition aide of the house , if they should pass over to the Treasury benches . It waa a _gaggingbill , and it would operate as a gagging bill hereafter upon the noble lord _himeelfwhen he should be in opposition . Before he sat

      , down , he would tell the hon . and gallant member for Westminster ( Sir De Laoy Evans ) , an Irish anecdote , very much in poiBt and strictly in keeping with his repudiation of his , former :: principles , or , rather , speeches . There was a farmer / a boy who g ot permission from hia master to attend an Irish fair , for a frolic ; the maBter gave him _fcalf-acrowo , and lent him a horse and cart to enable him to treat his mother to a day ' s amusement . When ha changed hia half-crown . in a tent , snd after he had spent ene shilling and sixpence , he discovered th at the other shilling was a forgery . He went in great dismay to the man who gave him the bad shilling , but the man denied the _charge . Thus baulked ofa portion of his fun , ho left the fair rather early , but not before a row had commenced , and in passing

      through which a ' . stray atone , ' as it waa called , hit his mother a / ad killed her . Tbe police came up , and npon questioning him he told them that be knew the man who killed his mother , and he conducted the pr lice to the tent of the man who gave him the bad shilling . The man , hearing the row , was run . sing back hurriedly to hia tent , which gave an air of _Oredit to the witness ' s _otory . He was apprehended and brought te trial , but fortunately for him Baron Pennefather waa his _juige-, a » d although the witness had completely puzzled counsel , Baron Pennefather was not satisfied with his mode of giving evidence . He asked the witness— ' Now , witness , npon your oath , is that the . man that killed your mother ?' The witness looked at the prisoner and replied , 'Then , upon my oath , my lordship , that ' s the man

      that kilt my mother , aare enough . The Baron w as hot satisfied , and ho said , ' Now , witness , attend _^ t © me . Now , witness , upon your oath , did you _eee the prisoner at the bar throw the atone that killed your metb . er ? ' The witness answered , * Than upon my oath , my lordship , I can't swear that that's tbe man that threw the stone that kilt my mother , bat by thevartuof my oath that ' s the man that gave me tbe bad _shiliag _/ anyhow . ' ( Uoara of laughter ) Now the moral ofthe tale is , that a jury will find , not that the prisoner has committed felony , but that he was the man who wants the Charter , anyhow . ( Great laughter . ) He would continue his opposition to tbis bill , and , as it appeared that Her Majesty's

      Opposition had now been regularly and constitutionally formed , of which the hon . member for Montrose was to be henceforth their leader , —( a laugh , )—he said it not tauntingly ; but , whosoever might be the leader , it was to be hoped that the party would show more of resolution and courage than tbey had last sight , when it had been -hia ( Mr _O'Cennor ' B ) purpose to impede the progress of the bill , and frustrate it , if possible , hy any means the forms of the house would allow . It appeared to him that on that occasion the party , although ranged nnder their new banner , had _Bhawn themselves rather faint . If they really intended to succeed , _theyimust commence their opposition bravely , and continue it perseveringly .

      Hr Headlam _, Mr Eoreman , Mr Adderley , Mr Eor Seymer and Mr Mitchell spoke in favour of the third _readlnR . Sir R . Peel supported the government in earryirg this measure , which , in the peculiar state ofthe times , ha considered to he necessary . The magnificent demonttrntlon made by the loyal and peaceable on the _occa . sion of the late disturbance abundantly proved that the public opinion of this country was _decidedly averse to all great constitutional change ; but it was the duty of the government and of the legislature to do their duty , and show to the loyal and _well-dlepoBtd that they were determined to maintain tbe fundamental institutions of the country . [ Sir Robert In the course of his speech mado an attack upon the Chartists and Mr O'Connor . ] He said : The question is , whether , under the

      circumstances of the case , with tbe avowals wbich have been made , and with the Influence of example In other coun . tries , it Is unreasonable and UDjust that for a limited period , he who , by malicious and advised speaking , shall try to induce tbe people of this kingdom to effect certain objects by levying war , shall be subject to the penalties of felony . ( Hear , hear . ) I confess I think it Is not . ( Hesr , hear . ) I see the language _ased ; I ob . car re the congregation of immense masses liable to ( edition , excited for no other purpose which I ean imagine than that of intimidation . I draw a _distinctienbetween the mere assemblage of those parties—for that does " not come within this bill— 'end that offence to which this bill really refers ; but Hook upon the assemblage itself as a symptom of the excitement of the times ; _andal _< t ' . ough I may not be able to punish it by law—for It

      may not be advisable alwaye to . _reeort to law forthe purpose of preventing such evils—yet I do think that the congregation of enormous manses under the pretext of presenting petitions , is a practico for which those who are the leaders of suoh an organisation are subject , if not to legal , yet to the highest moral responsibility . I cannot conceive for what purpose—certainly not fer _thepurpoiaof encouraging the _dsliberate _eonjWsratlon of tbat for which they wish—I cannot conceive for what purpose those enormous numbers , magnified by report far beyond their real amount— ( hear , hear , and laughter)—have been brought together , except that of Intimidation . ( Eear , hear . ) Sir , tbe honourable and learned member for Nottingham ( Mr P . O'Connor ) , whom I have always heard express himself herewith perfect good humour , has disclaimed all intention of

      intimidation , and has repudiated , I hope sincerely , the least [ design of creating confusion and disorder ; Sut while I give the honourable and learned gentleman full credit for _sinaerity , let me t * U him that those who bring together 100 , 600 parsons run a very great risk of creating disorders . ( Hear , hear . ) Even the honourable aud learned gentleman ' s professions of loyalty do not alto _, gether satisf y me . He says , 'I am no party ( 0 this alleged _InCtn'fon . I deprecate ( be conduct of those who advise arming , I am only for peaceable and loyal means . As for establishing a republic , tbat I utterly disclaim- I have been for years an attached and faithful servant of the ; Crewn ; and as for democratic institutions '—I beg _tao'honGurable and learned gentleman ' s pardon— ' ae for republican institutions , —( laughter)—I dioavow any desire for tbem . ' ( Hear , hear . ) While the hon . and

      learned gentleman , however , disclaimed such views , it is evident that his ardent loyalty bad not risen to a very high pitch iu the thermometer of loyalty ; far I think he avowed that his lojalty is of _sucli a description , tbat provided he can get democratic institutions , it it matter of _indiffetonce to him whether or not Bte z ; b « b be the sovereign of thl » country . ( Great laughter . ) ThU , » _ir , I do most cordially wish , that when tbe hen . and _lmned gentleman has got the sovereign ot his choice , he trill have confidence in the Crown . ( Roars of laughter . ) Thoujb tbe honourable and learned gentleman says tbat he can maintain hie influence over these « rcited ttoasands and tens of thousands , whom he brings together by professions of loyalty to his sovereign , which , not voluntarily , but after the quotation othis own words , he is led to avow : it appears that bis loyalty consists

      in indifference as to whether tbe Pope , the Pretender , or the Devil be the sovereign . ( Laughter and eheers . ) From this point the hon . baronet _paised on to France and the ' social doctrines' now adveoated in that couatry at the present time . I make no reference to tho political events that are passing in another country . My firm belief ie , that the security ef every existing government depends upon rigid abstinence from any Interference with what is passing in France . ( Cheers . ) We may maintain our own _oplalong oa that _sutyeot . _Ihave mine . But I believe It to bo essential to the peace of the world and to the stability of government that the experiments now making ih Franee shall have a fair trial without being embarroBsed or disturbed by extrinsic intervention . ( Loud cheera . ) But at the same timo witb respect to social principle ! 1 , 1 must say this ,

      that I hope tho working classes of thia country will not be deluded by the doctrines that are held upon that subject which Intimately concerns thoir labour _tuid tbe wages of labour . ( Loud cheers . ) If the doctrines that are there maintained bo true , if tbere be Indeed as antagonism between capital and labour—if it be true that » U mm , without _reference to their different capabilities , differont strength , aud different capacities , are to bave some iron formula applied to them , and all to receive the same daily wages—if these things bo true , then a ll the experience aad all tho lights of the last 180 years have existed In vain . ( _Cheeis . ) Let m burn the works of Turgot , Say , and Adam Smith . Let us establish in triumph the doctrines of tbe Mississippi

      scheme , and tho _dootrines of that Law who was supposed to Involve Franco in misery aad confusion . ( _Loudchesrs . ) Let us wait for the results of this experiment . Let us calmly contemplate whether it _iposslblo that executive governments ean be great mat a _facturera—whether it is possible for them t > force capital to employ _industry—nhethtr they can contravene the decrees of Providence and reduce all men , without reference to habits or strength to receive the same wages . ( Cheer * . ) For Gods sake g _* ve that social principle thi some fair teal as you are about to see given to the political principle . ( Cheers . ) But I do earnestly _troot—I havo « bat confidenceIn the good sense of the _worilng _clfifisesof _H > k _sonutrr-that they will feelhve tkt & m

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      false delusion of the compulsory sharing of _profita , no enmity directed _qgtlnst ' _aapit & T , no dittlaouen of _eompcttttou among Individuals , no _overpowering of _individual enterprise by government undertakings at tbe public expense can possibly be for the benefit ef tbe working classes , or have any other ultimate roeuit than involving them in misery and ruin . ( Loud and continued _chaeriog _. ) Upon the political prlnclplesl pronounce bo opinioa ; but it woulS > e a shameful suppression of the troth , without arrogating _tbhurselves too much of the liberty of speech , not to predict fatal _cpastqaencea to those social experiments now in progress in ether countries . ( Londcheers . ) Sir , I have been diverted for a short time from the immeof

      diate _^ bjectH this bill , ( Cheera , ) I believe , ss I have stated , that there are political grounds for tbis temporary Increase to the outhwlty of the government . I will not attempt to force on the executive government any powers they do not _rcquive . All that I have bow to deal with is thegneation whether , for two years , he whelaeltet people to intimidate the legislature , cot by words , but by declarations of war , shall be subject to tbe penalties of felony , I think the circumstances of the time justify the demand . I believe the people of this country will be encouraged to the continuance of those exertions upon which , and not upon police , nor upon armies , the tranquillity , if not the _Bfifdty of this country depends . ( Loud and continued cheering . )

      Mr Beiqht said he hoped the house would not forget that tbe right hon . baronet , the member for Tamwortb , had , in the speech ju » t delivered , confined himself , when supporting the measure , to approving of it for a limited and temporary period . Bat , while the bouse remembered this , he trusted they would also bear in mind that tho responsible advisers of the Crown had originally intended that thie provision of the hill should be permanent sod perpetual . He readily admitted that the bill ia it * passage through that honse bad been improved ; but he could by no means admit tbat that improvement was in any degree _owlog to the government , and he , therefore , denied that tbey were entitled to any thanks for the changes which had been tfi \ eted . - The right hon . baronet , the member for Tamwortb , in the speech which

      the house had heard , joined with those who had condemned the practice of calling together great assemblages ofthe people , a * leading to breaches of the peace . Upon that there could be scarcely a second opinion . They all agreed to tbat ; but let the right hon . baronet look back a little to hi 9 own career , and he would see that tbat species ofagitatien was sometimes altogether unavoidable . Some nineteen or twenty years ago the rifht hon . baronet was opposed to the measure known as Soman Catholic Emancipation ; at that critical moment the Duke ef Wellington teld tbe world that if concessions were not niade to the Banian Catholics bothing could avirt a civil watt hence it might fairly be said that tbe measure of relief t » tbe Roman Catholics of Ireland was one which had ' oetn yielded solely under the

      i & uutaco of terror . So much for the concessions then made to the demands of tho Irish people ! What had been ; the case with regard to the measure of Parliamentary Reform ? The noble lord st the head of the government—no one knew It better—could tell tbe house that at first the demand for- reform was most remarkably moderate , but as time went on thev demands of the Reformers increased in weight and intensity . The same history might be told of the measure by which the Corn Laws were repealed . Upon that important question p & ril & ment _yielded to a powerful and well-directed organisation ; famine threatened , and parliament dared not any longer resist . By ouch means had emancipation , reform , and free-trade been carried ; ho therefore entreated them to recollect that , as members of that

      _honsF _, tbey were bound assiduously and earnestly to leok into and examine the grievances of which the Irish peo . pie complained , with a view to immediate aad effectual redress . In taat part ofthe country where he reBided the working classes were more numerous tban in any other district of the united kingdom , and be felt himself fully warranted in saying that amongst them communist principles had obtained no very great number of votaries . When tbe people in any part of the country were distressed , they naturally aud eagerly turned their attention to any species of change wbich afforded them a prospect of relief ; but ft was only te a very limited extent that the doctrines ef communism had been received . Upon such symptoms , however , thay ought not implicitly to rely . It was true tbat recently , in Manchester , there had been a demonstration in favour of good order : he would eay a demonstration as much to be admired

      and approved as any that had elsewhere betn displayed ; but truth required that the bouse should be apprised of this , that the people of Lancashire would not range _themselves on the one side or tbe other if the object were merely fo prevent an expression of opinion . Such were tbe sentiments whioh he conceived to be prevalent in the north of England generally , and he hoped that the knowledge of their existence would not be lost upon the government , He hoped it would be felt both by Ministers and by parliament that the claims _flhich many of thoso persons urged were reasonable that it _wcnld be reasonable to extend tbe franchise from tbe limited num . bers who at present enjoyed that privilege to the 5 , 000 , 000 or 6 , 0 ( 10 , 000 who were without it , but who earnestly detired Ub _postession ; it shonld be extended as fast as the number of those persons increased who desired to share its action and to partake of the _bleasings which it afforded .

      Mr Montz repeated bfs oojectlons to the bill . Lord J . RctGKLL briefly adverted to the different objections urged by the different members against tbis bill , which , he believed would tend much to the security of the peace of tbe empire . He then referred to tbe exciting and _inflammatory language used in Dublin and other parts of Ireland , observing that It might in some parte of the country lead to outrage and insurrection ; bat tbat outrage and insarreetion would be put down , because the government had the means of so doing at its disposal in the loyalty and affection of the people , and in the force ef the army , whose fidelity bad been most foully and systematically belled la various _wejs , both in and out of parliament . He then proceeded to state that immediately after Easter the bouse would proceed

      to the dltcufislon of _measures which related to thepolitl ea ) stats of the Irish population . With _reference to tbe Repeal of tho Union , his lordship thus delivered himself , I must beg to allude for a moment to a debate , which was necessarily interrupted , and to alleged grievances , which are now stated as a ground for asking the people of Ireland to resort to arms . We were asked the other day to consent to the repeal of the existing anion between England and Ireland . Now , on looking ever the acts aad discussions of the parliament In Ireland—that parliament which has been referred to as one which gave happiness and contentment to the country , end which , If it had continued , woald have secured the prosperity aud liberties of the people—I find that some of tho most distinguished men in _Ireland , having at their head Mr

      Grattan—a namo never to be mentioned without honour —repeatedly Btatlag in that parliament of Ireland , that the whole government was carried on by corruptionthat almost the majority , if not alt tb e me j jrlty of that parliament , received _pansione during pleasure and salaries from the crown—that peerages were sold , and that the whole government Was & mass of selfishness and of bought suffrages in support of the government . I find that Mr Grattan likewise declered-that the suffrages of Ireland in respect to the election of members were sold ; that in some boroughs there wero only _tenjoters , in Knottier only twelve , and that the reform of Parliament was absolutely necessary . I find Mr Grattan , in referring to the details of the mode of collecting tithes in Ireland , observed , —and his observation was enforced by

      great eloquence and amazing vigour of language , —that every farmer and peasant in the country was subjected to the dreadful grievance of a ' subordination of vultures . ' He likewise urged that the great proportion of tbe people of Ireland , namely , those professing the Roaiaa Catholic faith , were debarred from privileges which the Prott stent subjects of that kingdom enjoyed . Let us eenslder what those grievances were , as stated by ono of the most eloquent end able of the patriots of Ireland , and what tbe pariUment of the United Kingdom has since done . With respect to peerages and pensions , no such abuse now exists as was then stated . Ne one will eay that anything similar to tbat which Mr Grattan stated , whether justly or not , to be an existing grievance in hie time , is uow to be witnessed . As to tithes ,

      tbe _queetion has been settled in such a manner that it Ib no longer a grievance to the peasant or the farmer . With respect to reform of Parliament , that question has likewise been carried in tbe united Parliament , With respeot to Roman Catholic relief , and tbe admission of Roman Catholics to ths privileges of the constitution , that question has likewise been carried in the united Parliament . Why , then , we have at least this presumption in favour of the united Parliament , — that those which were stated to be the greatest grievances while tbe Irish Parliament lasted have tinea been redressed by a Parliament of the United Kingdom . ( Cbeers . ) If this , then , be the case , — if these grievances have been redressed by the Parliament of the united kingdom , —if , ao I believe , thc Parliament of the united kingdom is

      able to legislate fer Ireland more advantageously for the people oflreland , atd with less chanie of hostile collision with this country , or of discord among the various classes , than the Parliament of Ireland could do , theu I should say , apart from all imperial Interests , that we are bound to withstand all those measures , in what _, ever form they may appear , which have the repeal of the legislative anion for their object . Let auy hon , member bring _forward each propositions as may tend , in his opinion , to the advantage of Ireland ; and to any _proposition whieh may be supported by the great majority of the Irish members , having for Its object to Improve tbe

      _Uwa of the country , the situation ef landlord and tenant , or to remove any social or political grievance under which they think they labour , I shall be ready to listen ; but by _discueeion , if tbe choice should be for argument and debate in Parliament , or If , on the contrary , the meana chosen should be exciting the people to arms , and to measures of force — then by force , If _neccenuy , I will , 00 long as there is any breath or life in me , Of pose the repeal ofthe legislative anion . ( Loud cheers . ) The house then divided , when they _were—Forthe third reading 295 Against it ... .. 40

      Majority ... ... , „ 253 The hill was then read a _filrd time . On the question that the bill do pass , Mr Huhe eaid he approved of most of the provisions of tbis bill , but be strongly objected to tbe clause wbich Imposed Bevere penalties on ' open and advised speaking ;' and , iu ordir to place on record his protest against that portion of the mta & uie , he woald move _thit those words

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      be omitted . Se considered that if the government * " ttUki to prevent the _nieelings of tit _Naileiud _eJZJ _?** ihty _hadawpleyower toioto under theblth Geor 7 c m and , as they possessed that power , he thought ttev eJ * . ' " _teveenerclscdU . He agreed that _most _impropeV _t _gusge had been _usid in Ireland ; hut he would * _£ ? * the government to let those who had used such lone ! waste their breath - ( cries of' Oh , oh r )—aad to 8 * tent themselves with adopting suoh proceeding s am , ? * those p « jOH » as were authorised by tbe _exlstlnl i He would not take the sense ef the houBe on his moti as its opinion bad just been expressed by so l » ige « jority , but he wished te put on record his protest a » nf _^ this clause . smit Mr H . Bibkei _, iiv begged fer himself , and on be half at his constituents , who—with the exception of a _fewnn sons oalling themselves Chartists—were _unanlmnng _/" their _oplslons , to thank the noble lord at tbe head _« the government for _brfogfag forward so energetic a m sure for preserving the peace and tranquillity of the

      The amendment proposed by Mr Hdidj was then new tlved without a division , andthe motion , ' that this biii do pass , ' was agreed to amid cheers from both sides nf she house : l The sitting of the house wag then , at a quarter nasi fuur o clock , suspended until _half-past five , Atthe _adjouraed sitting , Mr A . Stafford moved tbot a new writ be _wdired to issue for HorBbam _, in tbe room of Mr _Jeivis After a discussion tbe motion was withdrawn , and Sfr J . _Hahmee obtained leave te bring in a bill to appoint _commisaiosers to inquire into tha _whence o £ _corrU practices at elections far certain borough * _i ! r BovvsniE obtained leave to bring iu a bill to en . able religious congregations to obtain aitee for _churohes in Scotland . Mr RBnroiDs obtained leave to bring in a bill to abo _» hsh the proems of attachment of goods In Courts of Re . cords of the municipal corporations of Ireland

      On the motien of Mr Reynolds , the Municipal Corporations ( Ireland ) Bill was r « ad 0 second time , Sir & Grey stipulating ibat the bill shonld not go Into commit- ' tee until the government measure on the same subject sbould be before the bouse . The house _adjourned ot a quarter past eight o ' clock . WEBNESDAY , Aran , 19 . HOUSE OF LORDS . —Th * _Gaogiho But . —The LOAD ChaNCeLLo _* -. moved the second reading of the bill for the better security of the Crown and Government of the United Kingdom . The noble and learned _lorfl shortly glanced at the acts of those wbo professed to be friends of the people and of liberty , but who were the enemies of both , and whose conduct made the passing ofsome snch law as that now proposed absolutel y necessary . The danger and dUturbance of the public _peaeo arose in this country and Ireland , mainly from open and _delibsrate _Inattemeatg to treasoa and sedition and therefore , to put an end to such practices was a mala portion of the bill .

      Lord Stanlei supported the bill , as did Lord _BaonoHAM _, who begged to give a salutary warning to the newspapers ; there was no doubt that Parliament had certain privileges by which they could protect them _, selves within doors for whatever they might utter , but let no newspaper reporter or editor have the notion that whatever might be said in Parliament he had a right to report aud print , for Kit wag treason be was as liable to be punished for it as if he had himself Invented it : and thie might also be a warning to those who were ' daily printing nnd circulating treason and sedition ut . tered in different parts of the eountry . If they prohibited sedition and treason from bain ? uttered in the National Convention and similar places , what _eignified it whilst is the other Bouse of _Parliament such language might bo uttered and afterwards printed , and sent forth to the WOil ?

      Lord Campbell admitted that the bill would not reach Mr Smith O'Brien in the treasonable speech hemade in tha House of Commons the ether night , or the reporters , editors , and proprietors of newspapers ; and he should have bean ashamed of the bill If it had had such an effect . If any member within the walls of Parliament spoke sedition er treason , he must be answerable for ouch offence there , One efthe meat outrageous attempt * wade by Charles the First , and that which was probably tbe main cause of bringing him to the block _,, was the prosecution of members of parliament in courts of law for speeches made in their places in parliament . He did not believe that the publication of the speeches which had been alluded to had given any encouragement to the crimes which tbey sought to instigate ; on the contrary , he thought they had had a strong tendency

      _terouse the spirit of order In the minds of Englishmen , ( Hear , hear . ) He would be the last to wish to punish any one for giving faithful reports of tho proceedings ia parliament , for he had introduced a clause into his bill on the law of libel , making only the printer and puts Usher of the newspaper liable ; and his noble and learned frlena opposite ( Lord Brougham ) had supported that bill . ( Laughter . ) The person who gave a btnafide and honest reportof what took plaee waB surely exempt from imputation , and oat ; ht not to be liable to punish ment . ( Hear , hear . ) He hoped the bill would be effi caclousfor the purpose for which it was intended _, namely , to restrain seditious and treasonable speeches made in the National Convention , as it was termed , Conciliation Hall , and similar places . ( Hear , hear . ) Ho disapproved of Lord Eldon ' s bill in 1796 , and he still dfc .

      approved of it ; but it did aot follow from that he should disapprove of the present measure , the object of which was to reduce to tbe crime of felony a crime which had heretofore been considered high treason , and to extend it to Ireland . There was a elause in the bill , by which vfhatever was declared treason under the statute of the 25 _thofEdw . III ., was still preserved as treasoH _, He denied tbat any new offence was created by the bill , Tbe noble and learned lord apposite ( Lord Brougham ) criticised the languaca of tho third section of the bill , but it was totidem _uerbis the _lanj-nage ef the 36 Geo . III ., which was itself taken from the statute of Charles II . He would be the last person to consent to a measure of this

      kind , if he thoHght it would in the least interfere witb . fair and legitimate discussion . With _respectto the conviction of Muir and Palmer , lie thought it was not according to law , hut was entirely contrary to law . Their sedition consisted in making temperate speeches in favour ef the Reform Bill ; and his noble and learned friends had made , he would not say more _violant but certainly mors animated speeches than those for wbich Muir and Ptlmer were sent to Botany rfay . Under this bill open and advised speaking would not constitute an offence . To constitute an offence under , this bill it should bs ' open ; aud advised speaking , ' with the view of compassing tbe deposition of the Queen , or levying war against the

      Queen , or compassing or planning the invasion ofthe Queen ' s dominions by a fereiga force . And he would ask , was it not right to prove these offences by open and advised speaking . The Duke of Wellington said be fully approved of the bill . ( Hear , hear . ) He concurred In the opinion that some , measure was _recessary for the purpose of making the aet quite sufficient in order to oppose some check tothose great and gigantic meetings by which this country and _thejslster kingdom have been disturbed for some yearspast . They were at last come to that stage that the lawwas despised and condemned by every one of those

      persons who broke it . Thie contempt of the law was rain _, ing this countrv day by day , and destroying that respect : for it which had been its characteristic for ages : ¦ The country was coming to that state that it would be of no authority , " and thea there would be no means of _enforcing the law except by the use of physical force . He warned their lordships against allowing their country to come to such a state of _things if they wished to preserve its character snd tbe institutions . He hoped that the Mil would pass unanimously , and in tbe shortest space of time , in order that the government might put it into operation immediately .

      _LordDaNMAN expressed thu highest admiration for tbe noble duke , but thought bim mistaken when he said that thero was n growing contempt for the law ; nothing , sofar as his observation went , could be further from thereal character ofthe English people . The Earl of St Gebkans said , as to 'open and advised speaking , 'he thought the mischief ofthe _speaking _waeextremely small , compared with that done by the publication . The National Convention and the Irish Confederation were but small bodies ; tut their proceedings were read by great numbers . It was true the editors ot newspapers exercised a sound discretion in suppressing passages unfit for _publication ; and he _thought if that discretion were continued , it would be successful in prevent _, ing any bad effects . In cases where such discretion was not exercised , let the parties be prosecuted .

      Lord Campbell said , if seditious and _treasonable sentiments were published for the purpose of giving effect _tothem , that was a h _' gmy _cnlpuble _nrsdemeanor , or it might be prosecuted under the present bill ns an overt act for oompassing the deposition of the Queen . An editorof a newspaper publishing a treasonable speeeh witb such an intent , might thus be prosecuted and transported beyond the seas . The Lobd Chancellor trusted the effect of this bill would be to stop the speaking-, and then , of course , the publication would be stopped . The bill was then read a second time . The Election Recognizances Bill was then read a third ! time . Their lordships then adjourned at eieht o'clock .

      HOUSE OF COMMONS .-ConasB op Public Business _zftebEaster—Lord J . Rosscll , in reply to a question : from Mr Ewart , stated that the government had received information , which he was not at liberty to disclosewhich rendered the introduction ofa Bill for the removal of aliens necessary ; though , as such a Bill was contrary to the ordinary policy of this country , it would be onlv a temporary measure . The noble lord made a statement relative to the position of public business before parliament , and gave notice of the order in which he proposed to proceed with the government measure after the

      recess On the motion tbat the houBe , at its rising , adjourn to Saturday . Mr _DisaiEu drew _attantioa to the position of the Skhes . _wig-Holstein question .

      THURSDAY , _Amit 20 . HOUSE OF LORDS .-Ceown and Government Secu-• AW * Bill —On the motion that this bill be read a third time . Lord Brougham said hehad no objection to the reduction of treason to a minor offence , but hc could not allow that opportunity to pass without stating his conviction ; tbat the offence of high treason was just as much deserving of capital punishment as the crime of murder . Lord Campbell perfectly agreed with the opinion of hianoble and learned friend , and could assure the house that no offence was fraught with so much danger both to life and property as that of high treason , ( llear , hear . ) The bill was then read a third time and passed . The Public Works Completion ( Ireland ) Bill was road a third time and passed , after a short discussion . Their lordships then adjourned to Saturday , at two o ' clock .

      Ft The Northern Star. -_ »* Apbil 22, 18...

      ft THE NORTHERN STAR . _- __ »* Apbil 22 , 1848 \ o .. .. > . ¦ '' '¦ ¦ ' m ' ¦ ' - ' — __^

      Printed Fey Dougal M'Qcwan, Of 16, Great Windmil.* Street, Haymarket, In The City Of Westminster, At Tht Affifla !.. *Y.N Cia«Vn C"L„.I 1 T» • T *• .1 -N . . Uuitcin Auuiu Oireei Ior Tne

      Printed fey DOUGAL _M'QCWAN , of 16 , Great Windmil . * street , Haymarket , in the City of Westminster , at tht _AffiflA ! .. * Y . n _ciA « _vn C"l „ . i 1 T _» T *• . 1 -n . . _uuitcin auuiu oireei ior tne

      , Mo Ana Runsu, Rroprtetor, Feargus O'Oo...

      , mo ana runsu , rroprtetor , FEARGUS O'OOxNNOR , Esq ., M . P ., and published by William Hewitt , of Ko . 18 , _Charies-street , Bran _, don-street , Walworth , in the parish of . St . Mary , Kew . , ington , in the County of Surrey , at the Office , Ko . ie , Great Windmill-street , Haymarket , In the _CityofWeft minster . —Saturday April , 22 nd . 1818 .

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), April 22, 1848, page 8, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns3_22041848/page/8/