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Northern Star (1837-1852), 17th February 1849, Edition 3 of 3, Page 7, MONDAY, Peb. 12. ; DOUSE OF LORDS.—This ...

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      Febedakt 17,-1849. Thu Noptwom Star:

      _Febedakt 17 ,-1849 . THU _NoptWOM STAR :

      Imperial Parliament

      Imperial _parliament

      Monday, Peb. 12. ; Douse Of Lords.—This ...

      MONDAY , _Peb . 12 . _; DOUSE OF LORDS . —This House sat for a short _| time , and disposed ofsome routine business , among which was the appointment ofthe Committee on the I jrish Poor Law . j HOUSE OF COMMONS . —Suxdat Traffic ox 1 Rulwats . —Mr . Locke rose , pursuant to notice , to ask the President of the Board of Trade , whether it l was the intention ofthe government to introduce , I during the present session , any measure for securing I to the public on Sundays the limited use of those C- railways which were openfor passenger traffic during the week . S Mr . _Libocchere said , the government hadno pre-P Sent intention of proposing a measure to compel _? * _-railwavs to can-v passengers on Sundays . At the ? i same time , he desired not to preclude himself If against the right of bringing forward such ameaf . sure , if he shonld see cause for doing so . The s f Eailway Commissioners had expressed their feelings $ very plainly upon the matter , by refusing to sancl fcioii by-laws for shutting up certain lines on Sun' < _-fors-I / hear . hear )—and he could not too strongly

      I express Ms own iridividual op inion that it was peril fectly possible to open railways on the Sabbath under such proper limitations as should avoid any \ unnecessary desecration of that day , and should he I perfectly compatible at once with the convenience of ' the public and the proper respect due to the Sabl bath . ( Cheers . ) He hoped that public opinion I would be strong enough to induce those companies ! which had taken a different view ofthe subject , to i adopt the course which was more in accordance with I custom in this country . He confessed he was most 1 reluctant to introduce anything Hfce a compulsory i measure upon a point involving thc conscientious 1 religious scruples of any considerable body of peo-: pie , except in cases of extreme necessity ; and he was happy to say that half the railways in Scotland ! did at this time allow trains to run- on the Sun-| day . ( Hear . )

      Droubt _' s _Pac-peh , _EsTABtrsnMusr . —In answer to a question from Tiscount Dbemlaxbig , Mr . Bakes stated , that Mr . Drouet had certainly not been convicted of any offence whatever ; but he had been put upon his trial upon two or three _cri-Tni-v- ' _i charges , _nn _* l _* tS ** i . _* t _ewenmstafice "was _snfficient to induce Mm ( Mr . Baines ) not to say one word more npon tho matter . ( Hear , heaT . ) "When the cholera hroke out in Mr . Drouet ' s establishment , in the heginning of January laBt , there were 1 , 372 children m the house , who had been sent there by thirteen different unions . As soon as the cholera made its appearance , the Poor Law Board issued circulars to all those unions , pressing on them in the strongest terms the necessity of providing , without delay , suitable places for the reception of those children , in order that they might be removed at the earliest possible period . That circular had been repeated "from time io time . Twelve out of

      the thirteen unions had been able to provide places for the reception ofthe children , which they deemed suitable . The thirteenth union—that of Chelseahad reported to the Poor Law Board that , _notwithstanding every endeavour on their part , they had not been able to meet with a suitable p lace . . And , no doubt , there would be a difficulty m procuring suitable accommodation for them . The workhouse was already full , andthe owners of private property were naturally unwilling to receive into that propcrtv persons coming from an establishment where the cholera had existed . The number of children now at Mr . Drouet ' s was 223 , consisting of those belonging to the Chelsea Union , and of others from otherpaSshes , who had laboured under cholera , but were now convalescent , although they had not yet boen certified as in a fit state to be removed . He was happy to add , that no fresh case of cholera had occurred " in Tooting since Saturday , the 13 th of January last . ( Hearhear . )

      , Camforxia . —Sir De L . _Evaxs said that he -understood there were six ships going from London and Liverpool with merchants and _^ passengers to California , men of hi g h respectability and of different professions . It was also probable that a still greater number of ships would go . It was understood that they required some sort of protection , and he wished to know how far it would be afforded . Sir F . Baring said that the general instruction to the admiral on that station was to attend and give protection to trade . He had already received a communication from the officer which showed him that the subject had not been neglected by him , but he could not hold out any expectation that a shi p would be permanently stationed in California .

      Sir De L . Evans said that he understood the Orders were for a shi p to touch once in three months . Habeas Corpus Suspension ( Irelaxd ) Bill . — On the motion that the House go into committee on this hill Mr . John O'Connell moved , as an amendment , that it be an instruction to the committee to introduce such provisions into the bill as shall guard and save intact the right of the subject to hold meetings to petition for the enactment , repeal , or alteration of Acts of Parliament , or for redress of grievances , or other Constitutional object , without other or further restriction of that right than existed under the operation ofthe common and statute

      law ofthe land , -previous to the passing of the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act of last July . His object in moving this amendment was to " hring out tae meaning and scope ofthe powers to be given by the bill , " which he maintained were as yet hut imperfectly understood . The Solicitor-General opposed the amendment as totally inconsistent with the objects of the hill , at the same time that , if adopted , it would not tend to the accomplishment ofthe honourable and learned gentleman s own object . The bill did not interfere with the holding of public meetings for legitimate and proper objects . Such meetings might as well Le held under this hill as before its enactment , or as

      they would be held after its expiration . Some discretion must be given to those on whom the bill conferred the powers created by it , hut such as were not guilty of treasonable practices had , in public © pinion , a gunrantee against these powers being put in force against them . A debate ensued in which Mr . Roche , Colonel _TtawDoy , Mr . Betxolds , Mr . _Anstet , and Sir G . Ghet took part , and which was tenninated hy the withdrawal of the amendment . The House then divided npon the motion forgoing into committee , and the numbers were—For the motion 84

      Against- it ... H Majority for —70 The House then went into committee . ii committee an amendment proposed hy Mr . AxiTEt , requiring an order of the Lord-Lieutenant in council to put the act in operation in each case , was opposed by the Axtornet-General , and lost on a division by seventy-nine votes to twelve . On the second clause , Mr . J . O'Connell again proposed the amendment he had previously subnutted as an instruction , and divided npon it—the result being eleven for and one hundred and five against . With this division thc opposition ended , and the bill passed through committee without alteration . Relief of Irish Distress . —The adjourned debate on the proposed Tote of £ 50 , 000 out of the Consolidated Fund , in aid of certain unions in Ireland , was resumed in committee .

      Mr . P . Scrope postponed the amendment , of which he had given notice , nntil the report on the . resolution was broujrht up . Mr . Grattan said that he was going to bring forward a motion which would show tbat thc Irish members were not there to hog ; they did not want money —( hear , hear , )—and they could do without it . ( Hear hear . ) He was sure that would be satisfactory to English members . ( Hear . ) These were his promises , but it remained for them to sanction the plan bv which he would provide a sum of money for the relief of the distress ofthe people of Ireland . He proposed to devote the quit and crown rents of Ireland for this purpose . He could assure hon . gen-Uemen that the monev was available , as might be

      seen in the hank-books of Mr . Latouche , of Dublin , where there were such items as these : " Paid to _•^ ueen Tictoria the sum of £ 12 ; " " paid to Queen _Victoria the sum of J £ 20 . " His object was that this money should be left in Ireland . Eng lishmen objected to this money being applied to relieve Irish distress . Agreed . But then , leave the quit and crown rents in Ireland . There was then tne Irish Society , who drew - £ 58 , 000 ayear from the country . _^* hen English members said that they were coming down to take away English money , his reply waathen leave the Irish money in Ireland , and do not bring it to this country , to beautify Carlton House or Windsor Palace ; there was neither sense , nor Justice _, nor -propriety , in doing this , and then

      turn-Mio- round and saving , ' _* Oh ! you are always comin here to askfor money to relieve your distress . " Tie hon . member for Tavistock ( Mr . Trela-wny ) was debarred from calling them either mendicant or minacious . But independently of this , there were the rents ofthe great absentees , which were drawn from his conntry and spent in this . He had a list of Euan , and he would g ive their names . There were tte Duke of Devonsh & e and the Duke of Budungbim . He , to be sure , was sold out . His property _bought £ 400 , 000 . Mr . White , formerly a member of that House , boug ht three townlands for _£ 2 _*> , _lnH > . - ———mv * I IJ II . ****** mt .. '* _-p _\ _m—» m — . — - — — - _ _« for sale

      t ie knew that thev were afterwards set up , and sold for £ 14 * 500 . The Times and the Morning ¦ _fwand _theifornina Berald had been _mhmmgthe fKh members and the Irish people . They haa _felted and insulted them . They would defend _weniselves , and show that the mischief of Ireland _^ _sefrom the absentees . They might he excellent $ _» , hut they -were bad Landlords ; they might be IR good Englishmen , but they were detestable _p roprietors . ( Laughter ; ) Then there were the SSS ** of Hertford ami the Duke of Bedford . The _-aM _^ _-lford was a very good man , hut hehad a _^* % iri _^ tenantry . _*? u * tliere _waa tbe * "

      Monday, Peb. 12. ; Douse Of Lords.—This ...

      quis of Conyngham , who said that he had not the means of improving his property . Where were all his _meansspent ? Inthiscountry . TherewcretheMarquu of Lansdowne , the Marquis of Anglesea , the Marquis of Donegal , and the Marquis of Bath . The tenantry of the latter were in a wretched condition ; the property was quite bare—not a tree scarcel y to be seen on anv part ofit . Then came the Marquis of Ely , and Earl Fitzwilliam , a most excellent man . But he knew for a fact that there was not a cabin between his own house and Rathdrum ( all of which _belonged to the noble lord ) that was not levelled with the ground . Then there were Lords Essex , Audley , Maryborough , Middleton , Albemarle , Boyle , Clifton , Ashbrook , Arden , Stafford , Lifford , Templemore , Colonel Wyndham , and Mr Sidney Herbert . All of these mi g ht be excellent individuals but they resided out ofthe country ; and any

      reraon who Knew the value ofa resident gentry could from this circumstance account for the misery of Ireland . Mr . Greville , Mr . Lane Fox , and Mr . Ormsby Gore had also large properties in Ireland . Let a tax be imposed on these absentees and then they might keep their - £ 50 , 000 . But it was said that they always came to that House for money , and that this was hut the heginning of another series of grants . He did not understand this insulting , idle , and unmeaning language . He had already mentioned one fund , and he would now mention another . He would go hack to the petition of right , when the poor Catholics were duped after granting £ 130 , 000 to King Charles . But that was not all . In 1782 the Irish Parliament gave £ 20 , 000 to support 20 , 000

      seamen , which they voted fcr the protection of England . That was not all . When the late Earl Fitzwilliam was sent to Ireland the Catholics were promised their rights if they paid £ 250 , 000 . The money was paid , hut the moment it was paid the compact was broken . The letters of the Earl of Carlisle and Lord Fitzwilliam proved that . Here there were £ 130 , 000 , £ 20 , 000 , and £ 250 , 000 , making altogether £ 400 , 000 ' , which had been given to this country by the peop le of Ireland . He woidd take the absentee rents drawn from Ireland at £ 3 , 000 , 000 though he believed itwas nearer to four millions . This drain existed for the last fifty years , which made a total of £ 150 , 000 , 000 . He defied the ablest arithmetician to say that these figures were

      wrong . He did not see the hon . member for Tavistock in Ms place , but he thought they ought to raise a blush of modesty on his cheek . Bid he still think that thev had swindled the House out of £ 50 , 000 ? Why , this £ 50 , 000 would not do , nor fifty times £ 50 , 000 . ( Hear , hear . ) It was better to speak out and be honest . ( Hear , hear . ) The people of Ireland were not ungrateful ; ingratitude formed no portion of their character ; but when people talked of having subscribed £ 600 , 000 for the relief of the Irish distress , they talked ofit as if it was all subscribed by English proprietors . He denied that , for very many of the subscribers were large Irish landowners . Be would quote a few lines for the benefit of the hon . member for Tavistock :

      To John I owe some obligation , But John has lately thought it fit To blaze it out through aU the nation , So John and I are more than quit . Gentlemen in that House blamed the Repealers , but did they not remember that there was an Englishman who wanted to separate the two countries ? Let them do justice to the dead as well as to the living . It was an English nobleman , and an ecclesiastic , who wanted to separate the countries , and rode into Dublin at the head of 5 , 000 troops , saying to Lord Chariemont that they would settle the question with blood . That was the conduct of the Earl of Bristol , who was then Bishop of Derry . But Lord Chariemont said , " No , we will settle it

      without blood . " They had then 100 , 000 armed volunteers , and 200 pieces of cannon . Were they minacious then ? Well then , with regard to the £ 50 , 000 , was it your money 1 An hon . member had asked how long the - £ 50 , 000 would last ? Why it would last no time . ( Laughter . ) Where a shilling was collected only two-pence went to feed the poor man , the remaining ten-pence being paid to officers . It was desirable that hon . members should know how their money had been applied . Such implicit faith had they placed in Irish honesty , that they had actually made no provision for taking care of their own money . ( Laughter . ) The most ridiculous poor-houses had been built at a cost varying from £ 8 , 000 to £ 12 , 000 . Would hon . members

      believe that their agents had been so kind and generous as to give Irish paupers sweet peas and mignonette in the gardens connected with the buildings ? ( Laughter . ) So ill constructed , too , were these poorhouses , that his cane would almost penetrate through them . The true explanation of this waa that a body of men who knew something about the wants ofthe country had been superseded by those who were quite unfitted for the performance of thenduties . As regarded the union with which he himself -was connected , the Celbridge -union , his right hon . friend ( Sir W . Somerville ) had remarked that the rate had not exceeded 2 s . lOd . in the pound . But he forgot the subscriptions made by the resident sentry . These persons , in fact , divided the

      poor into four classes ; they sent to them at their houses ; they then got rid of the government officer ; andthe only sum granted by the government havin g been £ 30 , he ( Mr . Grattan ) wouldpay the ri g ht hon . gentleman that amount , if he liked , with , many thanks . ( Laughter . ) He held in his hand a book called " The Irish Crisis , " published and circulated , he believed , at the expense of her Majesty ' s government . A former hon . member for Sligo had once accused him of treason because he attended a meeting where there was a banner on whieh was represented a harp without a crown . The book which he had mentioned had a green cover , and it had also a harp without a crown . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) It began with a falsehood , it ended with

      one ; it libelled the people of Ireland for being poor , told them that they were slaves , and informed them that they were never fitted to take part in such proceedings as those of ' 82 . What did the writer get for tbat publication ? If he ( Mr , Grattan ) had come to the door ofthe House a poor , creeping ' creature , demanding charity , he would have been offered a farthing ; but here was an English gentleman who had been made a baronet and rewarded by a vote of £ 2 , 000 for writing a hook whieh added insult to injury as regarded the Irish nation . The only use of suspending the Habeas Corpus Act would be to keep Irish eyes shut and Irish ears closed to the distress which prevailed in that countrv . There was a revolution going on in Ireland

      such as the Jacquerie of France had never dreamt of . Having begun hy calling the Irish people barbarians and their priests " surpliced ruffians , ' they were now exhibiting Irish landlords as tyrants . Where did they expect all this to end ? What was the state of Irish property ? Why , a short time ago an estate which was formerly worth £ 25 , 000 had been sold for £ 14 , 000 . Who would buy the property now in the market ? He would mention a fact by way of illustration . It happened that a person in this country lent £ 20 , 000 in Ireland against his ( Mr . Grattan ' s ) advice . The Irish proprietor had since offered to give up the whole of his property to the mortgagee . What was the reply of the latter ? ' How can I eo and live there ? ( Laughter . ) Will

      any one leave the pleasant scenes of London to go and live on the rocks of Connemara V If parliament would send back the Irish gentry , he should have no desire to get rid of an aristocracy . He liked a coach and six much better than a miserable jarvey , and he thought that a limited monarchy could not get on well , without an aristocracy . But by the course which was being pursued towards them , the Irish peop le would be made Republicans and Separatists . "If you give us freedom ( said the hon . member with great emphasis ) , we will support you ; if you give us chains and slavery we will curse and hate you , and get rid of you as soon as we can . " Did hon . memhers think they could secure the affections ofthe Irish people while they taunted

      them with these miserable doles of money ? If they would not send back Irish proprietors , let them tax absenteeism . Cromwell had sent Irish members to _legislate in England , but the _experiment failed . _England had been saved at different times by miracles . She had been miraculously saved lately through the mistakes of a great man m France . Had the republican principle succeeded in that country , Ireland would not be in her present position . "When the first cannon shot -was fired in Europe , the Irish would obtain what they wanted ; England would then be ready , as she had been before to "rant more than Ireland asked . The tide wouldnot always flowin favour of thisi country , and would

      the reflux , whenever it came , , he hoped , brin" liberty to his own land . The hon . member concluded by moving the following amendment :-" That the collectors of excise in Ireland be henceforth directedanddoinfuturepaymtotheoffice ofthe Tice-Treasurer in Dublin , the amount of all crown and quit rents ; and that the same be appropriated tothe relief of distressed poor law unions in that C tL _^ Ciuirman apprehended that this motion could not be entertained . ( Hear , hear . ) It was a a proposal with regard to crown and quit rents ,, and ifc warincompetent , therefore , for the committee to deal with it then . ... . Mr . Grattan said her Majesty ' s name did not

      The _CiwaiLwrepeated , that by tho termsi of the motion , the hon . member proposed to deal witn tne revenues ofthe crown , and that could not , be done without the consent of the crown , signified in the ordinary manner . The amendment was then withdrawn . Mr . Ormsbt Gore defended the absentee landlords against the attacks of Mr . Grattan— " £ < H > Pj e could not be expeeted to live everywhere . ' He had no hesitation , however , in admitting _Jhnt Ireland had been " infamously used" by the Government of this country . She had been robbed , over and over again , of her staple manufactures , and of her resident gentry , by the Act whichdeprived her of her "Protestant Parliament . " The sum of £ 50 000 would go bnt a small way to repair the _wron _**** which had beea inflicted upon Ireland . The

      Monday, Peb. 12. ; Douse Of Lords.—This ...

      _ifcoSf ; n Caltf 01 _' niaWOuld ** « - _** - * _f Pl *» _cood Tor , w ' _^ _W l 0 sition - Thc > ' _™ nteda _Sw wS _w- _V lFeland ; not such •» toeyhad So _^ _dSnT * w P ° n idleness * ne then R * | v ° . how what , as an absentee landlord , he X _S u _# ! unonSst other things , established an . agncultural society amongst his tenantry in ango , some of whom had " begun to perceive some merit mthe plough . " He would give his opposition to the proposed grant , on the principle that it would not be wanted if Ireland were properlv governed . r * Sir . Stafford , after brieflv recapitulating what had recently been done by this country in the way of charity to Ireland , found it impossible to congratulate the House upon the prospect beforo it , seeing that the grant now sought was but the first of a new series . The £ 50 , 000 demanded constituted a sum which was to be applied to tho sustenance of the population of twenty-one bankrupt unions , and nine others in which serious financial embarrass-*

      ments were apprehended . To maintain the people in these thirty unions would require at least hair a million of money ; in other " words , ten such grants as that now sought . Besides , the Chancellor of the Exchequer had greatly understated his case , for hewould find that in the course of a few months he would have to add several others to the category in in which the nine were placed . What would De the result of the continuance of this system ? Jud ging from past experience , the country would be the scene of greater desolation anamore hopeless misery in February 1850 than now . He then invei ghed against the present area of taxation in Ireland , and the pusillanimity of the Government in not being prepared with measures for the modification of the

      Irish poor-law , tho time for inquiry and deliberation being past . The Government said that if this grant was refused the people would starve ; but on the Government lay the responsibility of the predicament . The honourable gentleman concluded by moving , as an amendment , the addition to the resolution of words to the effect , that a statement should have accompanied the proposed grant of the whole sum likely to be required for the purposes to which that grant was to be applied - that the system involved in such grants was vicious in principle , unjust in practice , and impolitic with respect to the suffering districts themselves ; and that it was the duty ofthe Government to mtrodnec , -mtWt delay , 'measures which would in future obviate tho

      necessity of applying to Parliament for such grants . Lord J . Russ-BLL contended that ministers were in the present instance only following the course which previous governments had adopted . It was impossible to say what amount of relief mi ght be required in particular districts ; but if £ 400 , 000 or £ 500 , 000 was at once voted , that sum would , no doubt , be demanded ; but there would be no security against further applications . He admitted that the continued application of money drawn from the taxes of England to relieve Irish distress did tend to destroy the spirit of self-relianee on the part of the Irish people ; but , though such grants were vicious in principle , there were extraordinary circumstances

      in which they would be justmed , as in the present case , to save a population from starvation . With regard to the latter part of the amendment , he proposed in any alteration in the poor law to provide for the greater encouragement of capital and industry , and to prevent the cases of exceptional distress falling in future as a charge on the public expenditure . Other measures as to local taxation in Ireland were in contemplation , and would be introduced during the present session . The Marquis of Granby said the object of the amendment was to saddle the grant with conditions which would obviate the necessity for further applications of this kind .

      Col . _SruTHORr would not vote for any grant of money . He yielded to no man in humanity , but he looked upon the noble lord ' s reasons for this grant as insufficient and equivocal . Por these reasons , and also on account of the distress which the noble lord and the right hon . baronet had brought upon this country , he should refuse his support to this low , tricky , and Jesuitical vote . ( Hear . ) Mr . Hume rose amid loud cries of " divide , " and begged to state the course which those who objected to the vote , and those who objected to the addition , might probably take . He could not agree to the addition , because he considered it very inconsistent , first in agreeing to thc grant , and then dissenting from it . He disagreed from the _irrant .

      and thought the sense of the house ought to be taken separately on that and on the addition . Mr . Muntz , amid renewed cries of " Divide , " said it would be unnecessary for him to detain the house at any length . The other night he had voted against her Majesty ' s government , feeling that he could not conscientiously do otherwise , and now ho would vote aeainst them again . He could not see how the people of this country could be called upon , taxed as they were —( loud cries of "hear , hear" )—to contribute repeatedly , incessantly , and endlessly to grants of this kind , the more particularly when the house was told by more than one member . of the government that the present was not to be the last grant . ( Hear , hear . ) Tho hon . member for Rinon

      had told the house the other night that he would rote for ihe grant , because he would not allow thc people to starve . Now , when he ( Mr . Muntz ) was giving away his own money he hoped he could be as charitable as any one , but when he was giving away the money of other people , he thought he ought to consider carefully before ho did so ; and though he believed the honourable gentleman in former days was a great authority , and one to whose opinion he would defer , yet , as he had told the House he had changed all his opinions , there was some difficulty in trusting him . For his ( Mr . Muntz ' s ) part , he did not see any probability of an improvement in Ireland ; on the contrary , he expected it to be infinitely worse , and very rapidly

      worse . ( Hear . ) He saw no signs whatever of improvement there , and he believed that a deal of the distress there was to be attributed to the general system of the government . He helieved that a great deal of it was owing to cheap produce and dear money . ( Hear , hear . ) He asKed the House whether there was any probability of an improvement in the value of produce ? ( Hear , hear . ) Some peop le talked of California , but they should recollect that all the people of Ireland might be dead before they reached the gold regions , and that although the proceeds of California mi ht be advantageous , yet there must be time to bring the gold into market . ( Hear , hear . ) But , what was the state of the people of England ? Were the people of this

      country fit to pay these heavy calls , and ought they to be called upon to pay such calls ? ( Applause . ) Hon . gentlemen were in the habit of saying to him , - * You are finely off at Birmingham—you are all well employed , and doing a profitable business * " he had heard nothing of that kind at Birmingham . ( Cheers from the Protectionists . ) He had gone home on Saturday , and did not see a single man to tell him that trade was brisk . On the contrary , every one said that trade was exceedingly flat and unprofitable , and that there were ho signs of improvement at present , more especially because they were so competed with by foreign manufacturers . ( Renewed cheers from tne Protectionists . ) That very morning , at eleven o ' clock , he had met one of

      his " family who had just returned from the north of Germany , and he asked him what was the state of trade in that country ? The reply was— " There is plenty of trade in Germany—they manufacture their own goods there much cheaper than you can in England , and the prices you are selling at , low as they are , and unprofitable as they are , are not able to compete with the lowness of the prices of the German manufactures . " ( Loud applause from the Protectionists . ) A curious circumstance happened to him ( Mr . Muntz ) lately . Some three or four years ago the g lass manufacturers of Birmingham were very anxious for Free Trade , and they came to him and said , " We are very anxious for Free Trade , and to have the duties on glass removed . "

      He cautioned them , and asKed whether they were sure they could compete with foreign manufacture ? " Oh ! " said they in reply , "there is nothing like Free Trade ; we can compete with advantage . He pointed their attention to Bohemia and other countries where wages were low , but they said , " Never mind , let us have Free Trade . " Well , he came with a body of them to the right hon . baronet the memher for Tamworth , when he was Prime Minister , and the first thing they asked the right hon . baronet was tbree years' protection . ( A laugh . ) He ( Mr . Muntz ) felt naturally surprised , and said to them that he thought they wanted Free Trade ; but they replied , that they wanted three years to prepare for it . He asked them whether three years

      would be sufficient , and they replied in the affirmative ; but now the three years were gone , and it was only last Friday that he received the following letter from one of them : — Birmingham , Feb . 5 . Deab Sm , —As the import duties on flint-glass will expire soon , the trade is , I fear , in danger of expiring also in this country—( cheers from the Protectionists)—owing to those countries whose manufactures are protected by an import duly being allowed to send all their productions here , thus keeping up prices at home hy not glutting their markets , at the same time ruining- ours . The manufacturers here are anxious to memorialiie for a continuance of duty being imposed , as that alone can protect our trade , from the peculiar nature of our manufacture .

      ( Renewed cheers from the Protectionists . ) He ( Mr . Muntz ) wrote to them to say , that he would do just as they liked , and that he would introduce them to the minister ofthe day if they desired . But this was not the only case of the kind . Hon . gentlemen might say what they liked about the improved state of trade , but the fact was , there was an improvement of this sort—an improvement in quantity , not in quality . ( Hear . ) They might congratulate themselves in the same manner as the man did who had the fever for twelve months , and then rose for half an hour and fancied himself a little better because he sat up- ( a laugh ) ; -but there was not a solid improvement , and he feared that things would be worse . There were half a dozen trades which had vanished from Birmingham because of _competition on the Continent . ( Hear ) Themanufactures with which B _* rm _* ngham had once a great

      Monday, Peb. 12. ; Douse Of Lords.—This ...

      _S- , ° _, _ifin _° Spoken of in the newspapers last week as being in a very prosperous state . He aluded more particularly to two trades-the * Slto * trade and the brass-founders trade . He Sadexnowno _oXhSh both articles _£ _uituS Sa rTJtv At J ? e ? P "v . but o » t of fifty or sixty gilt-toy makers who were formerly in Bu * . S T ? r fivo nm -- there now , and those four or five had very little to do . ( Hcar _. hear ' The brass-founders were also very much reduced in number , and hose that remained of them likewise were not full y employed . ( Hear , hear . ) He left the House to guess then as to what the " prosperous " state of trade reall y was , and whether the people of this country should be called upon to contribute to the relief of the miseries of Ireland . ( Applause ) Hon . members talked of the potato crop and "the p otato rot . Wh y , there was no end of the potato rot . Let the House refer back to the vears 18 ° _^ and 1842 and ask

      , themselves what was the state of things then . Was Ireland then prosperous ? _y wretched and miserable . The rot with which she was afflicted was a rot that would not casilvbe cured . ( Hear hear . ) What was £ 50 , 000 among sueh a people ? It was like a drop of water hi the ocean . ( Hear , hear . ) Ho was confident that out of doors there was a very strong feeling against granting any more money to Ireland , andthat that feeling did not arise from any stinginess or niggardliness , but Irom a consciousness that in a short time the people of England would want something given to themselves and that so long as they _continued to give to Ireland they could not expect a large reduction of taxation in this countrv . ( Applause . ) Under these circumstances , anxious ' as he was to do justice to his constituents and the people of _England , he oould not possibly support the grant . ° Strangers were ordered to withdraw , andthe house divided .

      For the amendment 125 Against it 3 i 5 _ On our return to the gallery we found Air . Humk protesting against the grant , and declaring he would divide the house on the main question . ( Loud cnea of " divide . " ) The House again divided . Forthe grant ... 220 Againstit U 3—77 Sir . W . Soaiekvimb then proposed to add the names of the Earl of Lincoln , Sir L . O'Brien , Air Moore , Mr . Grace , and Mr . Bright to the Select Committee on the Irish Poor Law . Strong _objections were , however , raised against the name of Mr . Bright by Mr . Bateson , . Sir W . Verner , and other members , but on a division it was retained bv a majority of 129 to 74 . The House adjourned at a few minutes past two o ' clock . TUESDAY , Feb . 13 .

      HOUSE OF LORDS . —Their Lordships sathalfan-honr , and appointed a Select Committee on the System of Auditing Railwav Accounts . HOUSE OF COMMONS . -The Dublin Consolidated Improvement Waterworks and Sewers Company Bill was , after some discussion , postponed for a fortnight . 3 fr . Hawks , in reply to a question by Mr . V . Smith , stated that Sir H . Pottuiger ' s report of the expenses of the Kaffir war had been received , but was not yet in a condition to be presented to Parliament . On the subject of Railways in India , Sir J . C . _Honnousu stated that it was thought preferable that these undertakings should be carried out by private companies , but should thoy not be , the Indian government had come to no ' determination not to carry them out themselves .

      Fisheries in * _Iueland . —Mr . Asstey moved for a select committee to inquire into the state ofthe inland fisheries and navigation of Ireland . His object was to make the protection of these fisheries a matter of police , and to prevent improper obstructions in tho river * , not to interfere with existing rights . By the present defective system he believed not less than 4600 , 000 a year was lost to the country . Sir H . W . BAnnos seconded the motion , thinking that it would be advisable to extend the inquiry to the deep-sea fisheries . He trusted that Mr . Anstev

      would add words to that effect to his resolution . The House and government should not stop short until they put the fisheries upon the same footing as that occupied by the fisheries of Scotland . The Irish fisheries would not be properly encouraged until they were put under the superintendence of a board , like that existing in Scotland . Sir W . Somerville would not object to the appointment of the committee , but he did not concur in Sir W . Barron ' s proposed addition to it . The motion was agreed to after a short conversation .

      Transfer o p Real Property . —Mr . _Drummond moved for leave to bring in a bill for the purpose of facilitating the transfer of real property . The hon . gentleman , alluding- to the then state of the House , observed that the subject did not seem to excite much interest , seeing that so great a proportion of the hon . members had gone home to dinner . ( A laugh !) He proceeded to remark that there was no reason why land should not be as free in the market as any other commodity . ( Hear , hear . ) He might quote many authorities who had advocated this sentiment in times past , but it would be a work of supererogation . Were it not f » r the feudal tenures which were still preserved , the disposal of land would be quite unshackled . He would not now enter into the nature of these tenures , or show

      how all their general evil had been maintained , although the burdens upon the owners of land had been long since remitted ; and as he did not intend to dilate upon these subjects , he felt himself in this difficulty , with respect to recommending his measure—that he did not know upon what grounds the opposition to it could go , and therefore he did not know what objection to answer . He could only reply at hazard to a few difficulties which he had heard started out of doors . First , he had been told that it was presumptuous in a person not called to the bar to introduce a bill upon a subject of this kind . Now , being called to the bar meant taking a certain number of dinners , and paying a certain amount of fees . ( A laugh . ) Anil he had certainl y not been able to

      distinguish any necessary connexion between these operations and the capability of drawing a bill . ( Hear , and a laugh ) . The question then was not one in which a lawyer need bestir himself . Sidney-Smith said long ago that the court of Chancery was like a boa constrictor , which could swallow the estate of an English gentleman whole , and digest it at its leisure . TA laugh . ) Then why should lawyers bestir themselves in law reform ? They performed the office of masticators and digestors , andthat was probably enough for them . ( Laughter . ) No . This was a question in which the owners of land , and those who might become the owners of land , were tho parties really interested . ( Hear , hoar . ) . But then , it was said , that nobody but a lawyer could draw a bill . That remained to be proved . A great

      many bills had heen drawn up by many very eminent lawyers , which were found to be of very little use . Nay , no later than last session , a bill for facilitating the sale of waste land in Ireland had been most carefully prepared by the highest legal functionaries of the government , and that bill , he was informed by many Irish members , was little better than a caput mortumn . ¦ ( Hear . ) In fact , it frequently proved that bills which one set of lawyers drew up , puzzled another set of lawyers to interpret . ( Hear , and a laugh . ) Here , however , he wouldbe perhaps told that there was a Crown Commission sitting on the subject , and he would be asked whether he would not wait to see what that commission would do . _Hujticus cscpectat—and he would be a very simple rustic indeed were he to

      expect any practically advantageous results from a Crown Commission . ( Hear , and a Jaurfi ) . Again , lie was told that he would he opposed hy the lawyers , because his hill would interfere with their interests . He repudiated such an idea . ( Laughter . ) The study of the law was the study of a liberal profession , elevating men above sordid and interested motives —( laughter ) , and he would as soon believe that medical men would object to the reception of a remedy for malignant diseaseor that military men would decry a general peace —as that the lawyers would object to such a measure as he had to propose . ( Hear and laughter ) He had once indeed heard of the members of a medical college congratulating themselves on an unsatisfactory state of the public health , and drinkinjr to

      the progress of slow fever with three times three . ( Loud laughter . ) But he rejected such scandals , and he could assure the House that all the lawyers whom he had spoken to were favourable to his measure , and that he counted upon their kindness to supply his legal deficiencies . ( Hear , hear . ) After the fullest examination which he had been able to give to the subject , and ivith the fullest information which he had been able to collect , he had arrived at the firmest conviction that it was impossible to effect thc object which he had in view in any other way than by the provisions of such a measure as he held in his hand . He proposed to establish a registry of deeds and lands , and he proposed that entries should be accompanied by full and amp le maps of the estates referred to . In former times this was

      accompanied with some difficulty , but now that there existed a map of every parish in the kingdom , under the tithe commission , nothing more would be required than to copy out the necessary portions of tliat map . He also proposed that there should be a public registration of . all incumbrances , of any species , upon land , but he did not propose that this should bo compulsory . He left it to tho _discre' . im of individuals . Such were the main provisions of his bill . He thought that the only objection whieh would be made to it was , that it did not go far enough ; but in matters of this kind he preferred a measure wbich went the least possible distance . ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . gentleman concluded by moving for leave to introduce tho bill . Mr . Page Wood seconded the motion .

      the Soucitok-Genbral had no objection to the introduction of the bill . It would be ' premature for him to express any opinion upon Hs merits , until it

      Monday, Peb. 12. ; Douse Of Lords.—This ...

      had been printed and in the hands of honourable members . Nobody could differ from the hon . gentleman as to the importance of the subject , or tlie desirability of forwarding generally his viows ; and he ( tlie Solicitor-General ) thought ho might say tliat the present measure was a step in the ri ght direction towards carrying the hon . gentleman ' s views into practical operation . Theso views could only be put in force by a system of registration , and ho registration could be complete without a good system of maps . The subject was , however , connected with great difficulties . This he might say as haying paid great attention to it , hut he had no objection to the bill , while he would be happy , so far as he could , to give tho hon . gentleman any help in his power with the view of carrving his views into effect . ( Hear , hear . ) Motion agreed to .

      Bmuert at Elections . — Sir J . Pakisoton moved for leave to bring in " a bill for the better prevention of bribery and corruption at the election of members to serve in Parliament . " Ho had intended to explain the provisions of the bill at length , but from what he had heard since he entered the House he was led to suppose there would be no opposition to its introduction , as he believed the Houso felt very generall y the evils of the gross and notorious bribery at tho last election , Ho would state its details on the second reading . Mr . Brother-con * seconded the motion . Lord J . Russell said , he thought the hon . baronet had pursued the most convenient course in reserving his statement for thc second reading , when he ( Lord J . Russell ) would give his utmost attention to the bill .

      _Uoionel _Sibthorp declared he would dischargo his _duties to his constituents in spite of any bill against bribery and corruption . ( Alaugh . ) Leave wa 3 given to bring in the bill . Public Roads . —Mr . C . -Lewis moved for leave to bring in a bill to consolidate and amend the laws relating to public roads in England . He proposed to abolish parochial liability to the maintenance of the roads and . the turnpike trusts , and to take the county as tho area of taxation and management ; the control of the roads to be in a committee of the quarter sessions elected by tho magistrates , to be called the County Road Board . With regard to local management , he proposed to

      tnKe the Poor-law unions as thc districts , and that the county board should have thc power of divid ing all the roads into two classes—viz ., main roads and branch roads . The present debt ofthe trusts , which amounted to £ 8 , 000 , 000 , he proposed to payoff in not less than seven nor exceeding twenty years , by means of a county roads fund and a toll , which , under certain regulations , would still be collected in the main roads . The motion was , after a brief conversation , agreed to .

      A motion of Mr . Tbelawnt _' s , to extend thc inquiry of the Woods and Forests Committee to the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster , was opposed by Lord J . _Rubsbll , and negatived without a division . _Q-jxuhcmiq-s oi ? Electors ( Ireland ) . —Sir "W . Somerville , in rising to move for leave to bring in a bill to amend the laws which regulate the qualification and registration of Parliamentary voters in Ireland , said it would be in the recollection of the House that last session he submitted to the House a measure on the samo subject , and he then stated the principle and object of it ; and as the present bill differed in no very material respect as regarded the county qualification , it would be unnecessary for him to occupy tho house for any length of time on that subject . The principle of this measure was simply doing away with any qualification requiring

      occupation , and substituting rating instead . He proposed that the amount of rating should be as last year , £ 8 , that amount implying tho obligation of paying the poor-rates due within six months ; but that , instead of their being merely paid previously to voting , as in the bill of last year , thoy should be paid previously to registration . In the bill of last year he proposed to leave the borough franchise aa it waa now , with thia exception , that it did away with the payment of all rates except poorrates , which were to be paid as in tho case of the county franchise , previous to voting . He proposed in this bill to adopt the same principle with respect to the borough franchise as to the county franchise . He proposed also that there should bo an annual revision and an annual system of registration , and he should be prepared to show at the proper time that this measure would not give an uu < iue number of electors as compared with England .

      Mr . A . Staffoiw thought it incongruous to extend the political franchise , while they were limiting personal liberty . Mr . E . B . Roche objected to the measure , as not going far enough . Lord Bernard condemned the bill and the whole policy of thc government . Mr . Gbooas suggested that before baaing the qualification on the poor-rate , ministers should have provided for a uniform , system of valuation . Mr . J . O'Connell feared that , instead of increasing , the bill would diminish the number of voters in the Irish boroughs . He did not , however , undervalue the step now taken by the government . Leave was then given to bring in the bill Sir W . Somerville then moved for and obtained leave to bring in a bill to shorten the duration of elections in Ireland and to establish additional places for taking thc poll thereat . The House tben adjourned at nine o ' clock .

      _WEDNESDAY , Feb . 14 . HOUSE OF COMMONS . —Insolvent Mkmbebs Bill . —Mr . Moffatt , in moving the second reading of this bill , observed , that it involved only a question of common sense and common honesty . The bill simply proposed to apply to all members of this house provisions which liad been law ever since 1812 ( and had been found to work well ) in regard to those members who were traders ; and thc House , holding to the principle of pecuniary disqualification , ought to apply it equally to all . ( Hear , hear . ) Thc bill now introduced proposed to give to the Insolvent Debtors' Court powers in regard to members not being traders similar to the powers now vested in the Court of Bankruptcy in regard to members

      engaged in trade , only shortening by one-half the interval before issuing a new writ , and providing that it should be issued at the expiration of six months after a vesting order had been made . It was thought by some that the bill ought to go further , and put an end to the privilege of freedom from arrest —( hear )—but an objection might be founded on the possibility ofthe sudden abstraction of a few members when parties were nicely balanced and on the day of a division , and the House mi ht also be brought into collision with the courts of law , if a member denied that he owed the debt , and insisted tliat his arrest was unwarrantable and a breach of privilege . It had also been urged that tbe bill ought to exclude insolvents from thc House

      ofPeers —( hear , hear)—but ho ( Mr . Moffat ) felt that thero were two ways of doing a thing , a gracious and an ungracious , and there was that sort of hereditary prejudice in regard to privilege that if the peers had orig inated such a measure with respect to the Commons , it would have been rejected . The right hon . member for Tamworth ( Sir ' R . Peel ) had remarked , in discussing this subject , that when this House gave up a privilege , it was always followed by the House of Peers ; and it was quite competent to the lords to insert a . clause in this bill suspending the right of voting in their House during proved insolvency . ( Hear , hear . ) His object was to effect the good that was practically within his reach , and to consult the dignity and independence of the

      House . ( Hear , hear . ) * To any suggestions in committee he should be happy to attend . ( Hear , hear . ) Sir G . Grey had felt it his duty last year to caution the House against the bill then brought in upon this subject , because , while he concurred in the desirableness of the object sought to be attained , tho mode proposed to be adopted appeared to him so objectionable that the House ought not to sanction the bill . But thc hon . member had reconsidered the subject , and this bill , while it sought to attain the same object , and as he ( Sir G . Grey ) thought would attain it , was clear ofthe objections to the former bill . ( Hear , hear . ) He mig ht have some alterations to propose in thc details in committee , but he was quite prepared to assent to the second reading —( hear , hear)—and he hoped the House would feel that there was no objection to the principles of the

      bill , and would agree to this course , and proceed to the important business waiting for discussion . The bill would merely assimilate the caso of insolvent members to that of bankrupt members ; and no apology appeared to him to be necessary for not interfering with the peers , or with the inviolability of the person ofa member from arrest . Mr . Bernal would not oppose tho second reading , but he must sav that he felt that the principle ofthe bill was very much involved in tho details . The House would find that for six months after the date ofthe vesting order the representation of a constituency was to be in abeyance ; for the member was not to be allowed to sit or vote . The House must take care not to do a wrong to any under thc pretence of doing justico . A man might bo poor without being unjust . also not the second

      Mr . Goulburn would oppose readin _" , especially as the House was anxious to proceed to other business ; but the bill would require verv serious consideration . The hon . member had given no reasons for introducing a bill so totally different from that of last year , but had contented himself with answering ccrtain _objections ; and aa to that which was founded on the bill ' not being extended to the peers , he would find that where the House of Commons had addressed itself by legislation to the privileges of Parliament , it had uniformly , with the exception ofthe Bankruptcy Act , applied the principle to all persons having privilege of Parliament . Indeed this bill itself , in its title , professed to be "to provide forthe recovery of debts from persons having privilege of Parliament . " Tho members of both Houses formerly enjoyed the privilege of not being __ sued in any court fcr debt ; but by tha 13 th oi

      Monday, Peb. 12. ; Douse Of Lords.—This ...

      William III ., and by the statute of George III ., both peers and commoners wore made suable for debt , and placed upon an equality in that respect . Formerly the power of arrest , if it had existed , might havo beon made a readv mode of preventing members from attending in their places in tliat House , and might thereby liave heen made a political engine ; but tlie abolition of the power of arrest on mesne process had materiall y diminished that danger ; and lie was read y to admit that there was now less probability of abuse from the state of th-j law than formerly . Though itwas extremely desirable to preserve the character of tho House , and not to allow insolvent debtors to be free from the provisions ofthe law , yet ho was averse to making any

      particular provisions for members of Parliament . If they did so , thoy would add to tho natural disposition that eyery creditor had to recover his demands the strong inducement which a political object might give to tho enforcement of his debt . And he begged to remind the House that- thero had been men falling the first stations in this country who had been deeply involved in debt —( hear , hear ) —and that there had also been parties who would willingly have taken advantage of the difficulties in which those persons were involved , _through no extravagance of thoir own . ( Hear , hear . ) These were circumstances that ought to be well considered when they came to the details of the bill . He considered tliat that House had ample power to

      regulate this question for itself by means of resolutions , without the interference of the other branch of the Legislature . There were numerous instances on thc journals where the House had interfered for the proiection of its members against arrest ; and they had the same power now as _' ever ; but if they passei an act , instead of proceeding by resolution , they could not in future make any alteration in tho matter without the intervention of the other House . ( Hear . ) Ho must say there was much in the bill that was exceedingly defective . The tendency of it was to bring the Houso into collision with constituencies , a thing that ought in all possible cases to be avoided ; and it contained many other clauses which he thought highly objectionable . ( Hear , hear . )

      Mr . J . Williams hoped the measure would bomade to apply also to tho other branch of thc Legislature . Mt . _UXSLRV . T _C-SVCtt-id . _fwvt _TAWft iVK \< i Wi . _*\** > t been given to consider the bill . It was quite clear that it was _tt-rn object oi _ttve promoters , step uy step , to make the principle ofthe measure applicable to the other House of Parliament ; and thc main point was to assimilate the case of insolvent persons to that of bankrupt traders . The cases were , however , not analogous . A bankrupt trader , in giving up his goods , and obtaining his certificate from tho Bankruptcy Court , was protected ever after , and such a person might be elected a memher of that House ; but an insolvent could not get clear to the same extent in the Insolvent Court , for , though they could

      tako his property , as in the case of a bankrupt , yet they could not give him a discharge , and the insolvent never coulu he electod a member of that House . ( Hear , hear . ) Ho had many objections to thc bill , but would not take the responsibility of opposing the second reading . He hoped that in dealing with this matter , the House would recollect that the privilege they possessed was not a principle of the members , but a privilege of their constituencies . ( A laugh . ) The bill was then read a second time , and ordered to be committed on that day fortni ght . Navigation Laws , —On tho subject of the repeal of the Navigation Laws , Mr . _Gladsionk put a question as to whether Mr . Baines ( whose speech

      delivered at his re-election tho other day , the rig ht hon . gontleman characterised as manly and straightforward ) had stipulated ou joining the government that on that particular question he should be free to vote as he pleased . Lord J . Russell replied that ministers considered Mr . Bftine 9 ' s services in tho administration of the poor law so important , that on his declining to take oflice unless on the understanding that ho should he free to vote against the repeal of the Navigation Laws , they agreed to accept his service * on those terms , and justified that course by a reference to the cases of Mr . Wynn and Lord Lonsdale , who , on particular questions , had voted against the respective governments of which they

      wero members . The House having resolved itself into committee . Mr . _TjADOuchere rose to move his resolution with thc view to tho amendment of the _Navigation Laws : —He commenced by expressing a hope that the discussion of last year would enable members more satisfactorily' to consider the question now , andproceeded to recapitulate thc main provisions of the former bill . The principle of the existing Navigation Laws was threefold— to secure to us tho monopoly of the colonial trade , the _longvoyago trade , and the European direct carrying trade . The first , now that protection was withdrawn ov in . course of withdrawal from the colonies , we could

      no longer with any justico maintain . The injurious effects of our laws * in this respect were strikingly illustrated in the difficulties they imposed on our North American colonists in competing with their neighbours of tho . United States , and groat credit was due to them for the patience and good feeling they had exhibited under such circumstances . The next restriction , which required foreign produce to be brought to our ports in British vessels only , shutting out as it did the raw produce , while it admitted it when manufactured , operated as a direct encouragement to our forei gn rivals in manufactures ; and with regard to thethird restriction , which attempted to secure to us the carrying trade , it could be only successful

      so long as it was confined to ourselves and acquiesced in by foreigners —for if every nation were to act upon it , we , as the greatest maritime nation in tho world , would be the greatest losers—and , in fact , foreign nations had already shown a disposition to retaliate . Prussia had already remonstrated , and there was but little doubt , if wo did not abolish the system beforehand , llussia would , on the expiration of the existing treaty , adopt it as against us . He still proposed to reserve to the _(^ uecn in Council a power to re-enact the restrictions , wholly or in part , with reference to any counties whieh should adopt a policy prejudicial to British interests ; and to allow a British register to a foreign vessel British owned and British manned , subsequent information having confirmed his conviction that English shipbuilders had

      nothing to fear from this competition . The wages of shipwrig hts at New York wero not lower than in London ; but Mr . Money Wigrani had stated , that whereas a shipwright in the United States gave a whole day ' s work for his wages , in London tho worked as a combination man , and for that mischievous system competition was the true remedy . He likewise adhered to the alteration he had proposed last year , by which shipowners would be exempted from the obligation ot taking a certain number of apprentices . The only material departure in the present from the former resolutions related the coasting trade . The opponents of the measure of last year were of two classes : and onc , of whose sentiments Mr . Herries was the exponent , objected altogether to its prineiplo ; the other class avowed a belief tliat the time had come when tho

      fundamental principle ofthe navigation laws must bo revised , but took ' an exception to parts of the plan . Mr . Gladstone , for example , had insisted upon the disadvantage and impolicy of retaining the monopoly of our coasting trade , a relaxation of which might purchase an equivalent in the coasting trade of America . He ( Mr . Labouchcrc ) had found it difficult to meet this argument on the one hand , and on the other to obviate the alarm which our coast population would feel at the participation of foreigners in their trade ; and to guard against the risk to which it would expose the revenue . He proposed , therefore , not an abolition , but a modification , of tho

      restrictions upon foreigners engaging m ourcoasting trade , still confining the trade ' from port to port of the United Kingdom to British vessels . Thus , an English or a foreign vessel , sailing from a British port , bound to a foreign port , mi g ht touch at at another British port , carry goods there , and take goods for a third British port ; or an American ship , for example , bound from the United States to London , might discharge part of her cargo at Southampton , take other goods , and go on to London , but not trade to aiid fro between port and port ; and the vessels must not bo under 100 tons burdon . The right hon . gentleman added , that he had had thc assurance of Mr . Bancroft that

      the government of the United States would meet this relaxation of our laws by a reciprocal concession . Bills upon the subjects of li ght dues , the merchant seamen ' s fund , and the measurement of tonnage , which would bo thc completcment of this freat measure , would be introduced as soon as it ecamo law . Mr . Herries said , he did not intend to oppose the resolution , but reserved to himself the right to oppose the second reading of the bill , at which it was understood tho discussion should be taken . He complained that Mr . Labouchero had refused him and his friends all information as to the alteration he proposed from the bill of last year , when that information was allowed to ooze out to the public through tho ordinary channels of communication . With regard to tho coasting trade , what security

      had we when we had given up our exclusive privilege that America , France , and other countries would do the same ? And with regard to the measuro generally tho effect of it was , that while we threw open to foreign countries those privileges which * wo now enjoyed—the exclusive right to trade with our colonies—the coasting trade and tho long voyage , we merely reserve to ourselves a powor of retaliating if they do not mako similar concessions to us . France , which was oven now taking stringent means to protect her own navigation , would probably refuse—and what would be tho position of our rotations with that sensitive nation it we afterwards attempted to take from her the facilities we gave to other countries ? Ministers should havene-: gotiated with foreign states , and ascertained how far 1 thoy v ? vW prepare _^ to meet un ia tbU wusse . bewro

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), Feb. 17, 1849, page 7, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns3_17021849/page/7/