Current:

Northern Star (1837-1852), 13th March 1847, Edition 2 of 2, Page 8, mouse oi itoiitf. I

Page 8
Page 8
8 of 8

On this page

  • Departments (4)
    • I: Smptruu ^smmau \
    • mouse oi itoiitf. I
    • mouse of f tommotttf.
    • Printed bv DOUGAL M'GOWAN, of 1G, Great Windmill- mill street, llnynmrket, m tli» City of Westminster , ilt the t till
  • Text (10)
  • Transcript

    • Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.

      Additionally, when viewing full transcripts, extracted text may not be in the same order as the original document.

      _____ The Northern Star. March 13, 1847.

      _____ THE NORTHERN STAR . March 13 , 1847 .

      I: Smptruu ^Smmau \

      I : Smptruu ^ smmau \

      Mouse Oi Itoiitf. I

      mouse oi itoiitf . I

      Friday, Jiabch 5. Dsvioxvict And Prisons...

      FRIDAY , JIabch 5 . DSVIOXVICT AND PRISONS BILL—Eirl Gbey moved : ¦¦ econ ^ etond reading of the t * o bills re-lating to convict . iipliueipliue ot which he h-id given notice on a previous ning . ling . The government had resolved , then , to make , uange lange which amoui . ted to notions less than a total inti < ' » litfra of tlio system of transportation , except as urds cirds C'lnvicU seni to Ji ^ rmada and Gibraltar , where term U-rm ttau-porui' . ion meant an entirely different

      sysii thaw than that cxercUed in Australia . Instead of being ilispc-rnspc-rted , convicts were to be kept at home , at first a cor a certain period in separate confinemtnt . audaftcrirds , wds , wh-, n discharged from this preliminary state , emved f . ved for asiaied time on pabiic « orks ; the principle « h : «« fa : « eiBl * 0-i « Bt wouM be il « t the conviet . were . to subjesubject to a svstem aconling to which they would * e a we a great an ' , direct interest in their own good conwt . awt . au 4 UetuAled . by their industry au . l se . od conwt / nct / no onlv to abridge the perkxi for which their ¦ T . Unir . Uniiii . nt w . isto ' . Iast , bat also to enj .. y certain xrarne :-

      . ste aste advanta ^ s . It was al . « o in ' tndeJ that every - icvn tcv .-i t wo really conducted himself well , who worked ! jCnstiCnstri usly . and " did not incur any fresh punishment ! r mir misconduct , fliould be enable to ootain his disiwrgaarge at the isiuvtnation of half tho period for which he as rets jent n -ed . TViien this period was expired , a pardon : nuld nuld be granted to tbe offender , on condition of his [ Q-grm-gratinj ; from England ; and to assi * t Vim ia carrying I . iuii iutent on into effect , the government proposed that iuiimuiinals , during the latter period of their employment a tha the public works , should he allowed wages to nearly ue fuie full value of t ' . ieir labour , the money being allowed » aco accumulate until the time for granting the pardon had nive-rived . Loi Lord Brougham expressed a general approval of tbe lorenreramcnt plan . Lord Stinky , Lord Dcaman , and tbe » ake > ake of Richmond , expressed several doubts as to the iropnropriety of the scheme . Tii The bills were then read a second time , and the house diotdiourntd .

      MONDAY , Maxch 8 . U IRISH P At FEES . —Lord BhoccHAM presented a peilioilion from the Corporation of Glasgow , complaining of ihe ± e influx of Irish paupers into that city . Lord Brougham Mtnromj . lain jd of the conduct of the Irish landed proprietors , iwhewho either contributed vtry scantily to the relief of the Ifrevrevailing disti ass in that country , or else refused to con-Itriitribnteatall . He admitted tbat persons might please llhelhemselves ' m contributing to voluntary subscriptions , but It vit was his decid . d opinion that , while refusing to bear tbttlitir share of the public calamity , tbey ought not to come amand ask Borland to do so for them , by giving them ten nvilmillio-is . He also denounced the scandalous jobbing mh-ivhicli bad fprung up among- tbe gentry ot Ireland , who wewere taking adranta ; eof the sufferings and misery of the peepeople , by securing for themselves places , created by the vanrariois Acts passed for the mitigation of the distress . He c tc ted various instances in illustration , among others , one wbwhere the four sons of a clergyman held seven situations bei-etween tbem .

      ' The Earl of if ophtcashel and the Marquis of Losnow . DEBEMtT complained of the attacks made on the Irish landlodordt , and maintained that if inquiry were made into the tntrnth of the storits propagated xbiut their conduct totowards their tenanrry , they wculd be found , in most cacases , more sinned against than sinning . The former nonoMe peer urged Lord Brougham to move for a Comnrniittce of Inquiry into the conduct of tbe landlords of Ir Ireland . CONVICT DISCIPLINE . —Lord Bboughah then mmeved for a select committe ? to inquire into the execute tion of the criminal law . He would at the same time si state that he felt disputed to regard transportation with a an unfavourable eye . Some alarm had , however , been c created among members of the legal profession owing to t the proposed changes , but these fears were groundless , at z any chaage in the system must be sanctioned by Par-1 liaicent .

      Lord Stasis * vinoersiooo from Earl Grey that it was 1 the intention of Her Majestj ' s government at once to < carry their views on the subject into effect ; and it was i not till the expiration , of two jears , during which their i experiment was to coatinne , that any act of Parliament - wonld be introduced . He hoped , honertr , to bear tbat Her Majesty ' s government wonld not be indisposed to proceed by introducing a bill . Earl Gbet . observed , tbat tbe law as it now stool gave fan Cwnn the power of deciding not only as to individual offenders , bat as to ho w certain classes of offences should be disposed of . The real magnitude of tbe change had been greatly overrated . It bad been said that transportation « as to be abolished . This was not the case . Sentence of transportation would continue to be pronounced , and it would continue substantially the same as at present , with an alteration in this respect only , that tha place where part of the sentence would bj carried out would be changed . This was not so substantial a change of system as to render it necessary that an act of Parliament should t * proposed .

      A desultory discussion then sprang up as to whether the Crown hadthe power to keep prisoners nn < Ier sentence of transportation in England , Lord Brougham declaring that it had no such power , and Lord Campbell asserting tbat it had . The motion was th n agreed to . CUSTODY OF OrTESDEUS . —The Custody of Of . fenders Bill and the Prisons Bill then went through committee . The house adjourned at half-past seven o ' clock . TUESDAY , M » BCH 9 . Lord Brooch am requested Lord Clarendon to postpone the third re « din _ r of ihe Custody of Offenders Bill til ] Thursday , on tbe ground that several Irish peers were anxiuus to express their objection to tbe extension of the measure to Ireland . Tbe Earl of Clabexoon , in th « absence of Earl Grey , consented to the postponement .

      IRISH LANDLORDS—The Eirl of Lccas , in reftr . enee to certain statements made by Lord Brougham on the preceding night , on tbe authority of letters from Ireland , wbicb statements were whoVy incorrect in their main features , wished to know whether tbe noble and lea-nedlord would give up the name of the writer . The noble and learned lord should be very careful how be made statements on tbe authority of newspapers or letters . There was , for instance , a letter from that day ' s Tines , dated from Ballinrobe , and stating that Lord Lucan ' s tenants there , and at tbe village of Gallows Hill ,

      had been ejected , aud the cottages dismantled ; whereas , te ( Lord Lucan ) had no bouses within two miles of Ballinrobe , and he could state upon his honour , that , as to GiUows Hill , no evictions of his tenantry had taken place , and tbe cottages were in the same state that the ; liad been for years past . Lord Bboughak said that he had stated the name of the writer of the only letter he received reflecting , by name , upon individuals . The names of the other parties he saw no reason for mentioning ; their statements were generaL

      The Earl of Lccik asked whether tbe noble and learned lord would at leasVjstate whether he personally knew his correspondent , and could state tbat he was a respectable man and worthy of credit . Lord Bboccbasc : I beg to state that I made a statement which I thought fitting ft . r ire to make , and proper to be received by the bouse . Neither he nor any other man has a right to ask any peer to comt to the question in this way . and I will not give an answer . ( Hear , hear , and a laugh . ) When the noble lord cries " hear , hear , " he shows his utter ignoranc « of Parliamentary proceedings , I hare heard statements made over and over again by peers in this house , and by members of Parliament in the other house , without giving the names of their authority , nnd refusing to do so when asked , stating that they believed in tbe fact alleged , and that was enough . Every one knows , tbat from the days of Harry the Third , when Parliaments first assumed a form , down to the present time , common fame is a ground for statements in Parliament .

      The Marquis of Losdosdebxt , In presenting a petition in reference w a Poor Law in Ireland , contended that the Irish people were of an industrious character , and willing to use their best exertions to pay their way . In his onn district , he and the other landlords found that tbe rents were very satisfactoril y paid . Yet the noble and learned lord came forward with general statements , which were at all events totally inapplicable to those persons who had never a $ ked the government for a shilling , and to those parts of tbe country where the estates were well managed and rents regularly paid . He alluded particularly to Ulster . ( Hear . )

      ¦ Lord Bbocgh 4 K : IC the uoWe marquis insists upon being blamed whether I will or not , I cannot help it , ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) I never blamed him . I nersr made a general statement against Irish landlords . ify charges were d nfined to three or four instances and I said tbat I hoped and trusted , and alto believed , tbat these charges conld not with justice be made general . But the noble lord gets up , and says , "I will be accused , and nobo ' y sSall prevent me . " ( Laughter . ) Why , it is the most extraordinary instance of the use of " w ill" and shall" since the predtce * sor of the noble marqais , who ciUed oat , " I will be drowned , and nobody shall help me . " ( Laughter . ) What can the noble marquis mean by saying tbat I make charges against all the Irish

      landlords ! The noble marquis complains that I will not give information . Well , I am going to move for information now , that will settle tho matter at israe one way or the other . My informant , who is a professional man , who names several most respectable people , who are acquainted with him , and who gives his intelligence not in the shape of general anonymous charges , bat with all the accuracy of a profresional man . says to me , " Move for the f'dtowing return , and it will be seen I ara right . " Jfow , I am going to more for it , and if he is a man not to be trasted , tbe fac t will be shown . The return is for the names of the plaintiff * and defendants in all proeesses for rent due oa the 1 st of November , 181 C , brought to trial at the session at Balliua , m Mayo , on the 11 th of

      January , 1817 . The Marqais of LoSDaxDERsr protested against the noble and learned lord making the landlords of Ireland R butt , with bis special pleading and immense volubility of language . ( A iaugh . ) It would end in this , that MUody Would mind a bit what the noble aud learned lord said—( laughter)—and would leave him in that contempt which , could not fail to overtake him . ( Conjinu d laughter . ) ia spite of the noble and learned lord ' s bad jokes , he wonld venture to say , that tbe Irish *<> nld sabmil cheerfully to all taxes imposed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom , though they might CitfSiilft them whta proposed by partfcg in that home .

      Lord Brougham said , if it was his fate not to be listened to , as tbe noble marquis foretold , he must only submit to the commen lot of mankind , senators as well as others . He could not venture to hope to meet with the same respect as the noble marquis did when he ad . dressed their lordships . ( Laughter , amidst which the Marquis of Londonderry said "Quito safe . " ) If what he said was so rcry contemptible , he hod only to hope that ihe noble marquis would take the usual means of showing that he did not care for it . He bad used no bad jokes , he stated facts , but he did not attack the Irish landlords . As to the disposition of Ireland to submit to taxatie-n , if the Irish would cheerfully submit to the mco . ac- ! ax , they must be much more loyal than we were in this country , for wo did not cheerfully submit to it . ( A laugh . ) '

      After a few further observations from the Earls of Clabe and Modstcashei , The returns were agreed to . Their lordships adjourned at half-past six THURSDAY , Mascii II . The House of Lords met , and after transacting some business adjourned .

      Mouse Of F Tommotttf.

      mouse of f tommotttf .

      Jfuluax, Aiarctt .5 Ireland.—On The Orde...

      JfUlUAX , AIARCtt . 5 IRELAND . —On the order of the day for ' going into com mittee of supply , Mr . John O'CoNSEitcalled the attention of thegorcrnmentto the necessity of drawing off the labourers now employed on public works in Ireland , to the tillage of the land . The hon . member suggested tbat the government should furnish seed to a larger extent than they bad i proposed ; and tbat the improving tenant should be in-1 vested with the right of compensation for improvements I and that a law should bo devised to compel Irish pro-\ prietors to reside on their estates . j Mr . Labocchebe recapitulated what bad been done , i and declined to undertake a course which went beyond 1 the functions of government . i The remainder of the evening was occupied in com-I mittee of supply on the Ordnance and Navy Estimates . MONDAY , Nabch 8 .

      NEW WRIT FOR CANTERBURY —A new writ wa * ordered for the city of Canterbury , ia the room of J Bradshaw , Et . q ., deceased . KATE-PAYING CLAUSES . — Mr . T . S . DoKCOMBE gave notice that after Easter he should move the follow , ing resolution : — " Whereas an Act which was passed in the reign of his late Majesty William the Fourth , intituled an Act for Amending tha Repreientation of the people of England and Wales , has failed to fulfil the just and lawful expectations of tbe people , and such an Act ought not , and cannot , be final ; it is expedient to amend the same by a repeal of the rate-paying clauses in that Act , and by the insertion of provisions calculated te prevent any undue influence being exercised vaOWWgns or counties , whereby the representation of the people may be prejudiced . "

      THE GOVERNMENT MEASURES ( IRELAND ) . — On the question , ' bring pat itbat tbe order of tbe day be read forgoing into committes on tbe Landed Property ( Ireland ) Bill , Mr . Rosbcck obierved that tbe house was now about to proceed with two Irish measures , the Poor Relief Bill and the Landed Property Bill . He wished to ask tbe noble lord at the head of the government whether it was understood that , if the Landed Property Bill did not go through the homse substantially as it now stood , the noble lord wonld , as the adviser < j ? hw lUjesty , he prepared not to propose the continuation of the Poor Law Bill for Ireland . He ( Mr . Roebuck ) was for giving the Poor Relief Bill precedence ; but if the other course were to be adopted , was tbe noble lord prepared to give him to understand , that in the event of the Landed Property Bill hsing Substantially altered , he would not go on with the other measure !

      Lord Jon . « r RtrasEtr . explained that he intended to move these bills be proceeded with pari passu , so that both tbe Landed Property Bill and the Poor R « lief Bill might be read a third time on the same occasion . He did not think it necessary , however , to give the honourable gentleman any assurance of the course that would be pursued la the event of any unexpected contingency . ( Hear , hear . ) Mr . Roebuck then proposed the resolution , of which he had given notice , that any plans of relief for the distress of the Irish poor by means of loans to the owners of property in Ireland , would be unjust and impolitic , unless accompanied by a sj stem of taxation which would subject such property to the burdens already imposed upon all property throughout Great Britain . Theartizan ,

      tbe landlord , and the merchant of England , all brought their quota without grumbling into tbe general Exchequer , for the purpose of its being expended in promoting the interests of the great nation called Great Britain and Ireland . Now , there W » S a great variety ot taxes from which the Irish population were exempt , as , for instance , the assessed taxes , the taxes for the poor , and the income tax . His object in bringing forward hii present resolution was to test tha stuff of which Irish members were made . If they talked to him of repeat , he would tell them to consider what repeal was in this season of real calamity . There was no talk about it now tuey were an singing low , and their note was nothing hut "Give , give . " If that cuckoo cry was pressed upon England now , England might cut the

      chain which connected her with Ireland , and might cast Ireland adrift to be overwhelmed by th « storm which was now sweeping over it . There had been nothing proposed by that party which would make aa impression on a rational man ' s mind , or win for itself J a moment ' s hearing . He ( Mr . Roebuck ) bad taken a part In Irish debates , and he had won for himself perhaps an uaenvioas notoriety . ^ Au honourable member ; " An unenviable notoriety . " ] Amongst those who bad come to him were two Catholic priests , and be hoped the honourable member for Kilkenny would listen to what he had to state : one was the R .-v . Dr . Collins ; the other tbe Rev . Mr . M'Carthy . He mentioned their names with tlwir own consent . They came from Mallow , having been sent as a deputation from that neigh .

      bourhood . What was their first statement to him , when , after the usual courtesies , he had asked them to be seated t " Sir , " said one of them , « ' don ' t believe that the gentlemen in the House of Commons that come from Ireland represent Ireland . " His ( Mr . Roebuck ' s ) answer was— "Sir , I am extrsmely glad to hear it . " ( Laughter . ) " Sir , " said they , " they aro the repreaentativet of property in Ireland ; now we , the priesthood raised from amongst the people , entirely conversant with their feelings , mixing with them , are here , sir , deputed to tell you from tbe Irish people this—don ' t listen to a word that it said in the House of Commons by any representative from Irsland . " He ( Mr . Roebuck ) said , " I shall most religiously obey your re-quest . " ( Loud laughter . ) ' * They do not ( they said ) represent tho people Of that

      country—they represent the rich , and th-y are following o « t most carefully tbe interests of tbe rich , whom they represent . " One of these clergymen then said there were around Mallow a number of gentlemen of large property , he mentiontd the names , but he ( Mr . Roebuck ) did not put thein down , but be asked him to send them , which be had not done . He mentioned the names of persons possessing three , four , five , six , and be thought , ten thousand a-year . He said tbey went around for subserip . tions to those gentlemen for the relief of the starving psople . The people were absolutely starving at the time , aud it was stated at coroners' inquests that they were dying from starvation . They went to these gentlemen and asked them for relief fur their starving brethren , and from none of them did they get any thing but tbe

      minutest trifle b y way of relief ; and one of these rev . gentlemen said—and he ( Mr Roebuck ) would remark that he was greatly won by his manner ; he had a heartiness about him ; it was not what he had been accustomed to ace coming from Ireland—hut he had a heartiness about him which won his ( Mr . RoebuekV ) approbation —and his eye twinkled when he said that one of these gentlemen had seventy dogs living on meal and milk every day , though coroners' inquests were held at that man ' s gate upou persons who had died of starvation . ( Hear , bear . ) I said , " My God , Sir , do you tell me that this is the fact V and he said , «« Sir , you know who I am . 1 have stated to you this fact , and you can give my name " —( Hear . ) This had passed within a few miles of Mailow , and men had died from starvation , while dogs lived .

      —( Hear . ) He appealed , not to Irishmen in that house , but be appealed to his own countrymen—be raised his voice to the whole of England and Scotland , and he asked if they were prepared to hear this thing . Ho would say that it could not be done , and ho knejv that when ha said that it should not he done , tbe voices of millions would be raised in confirmation . — If hg were told that the Irish landlord had been made what be was by the legislature , be could not deny it ; hut then he would add further , that the Irish landholder was a slaveholder , and that the chain of his oppression still galled and rusted in tbe hearts of the Irish people . Till lately old feelings had kept up a rancour between tbatwocoHntries ; but that rancour , though extinct in

      England , was still extant in Ireland . AH that Englishmen wanted now was , that Irish landlords should do their duty ; and should be compelled to mortgage their lands if they would not otherwise maintain the poor of their country . Perhaps it might be said that this was not the time for such a resolution as he proposed , because tbe Irish landlords had not received their rents . He denied the fact on tbe authority of a friend in tbat house , who informed him that Irish rents had bee-n well received this year . There could be no mystery on such matters , for the Timet newspaper was a grand Rude light cast upon all oolitical c jmbiuations , exposing everything to public inspection except tbe secret workings of tbe hearts of Irish landlords and of English Cabinet Ministers . He told Lord 3 . Russell that there

      was a peculiarity about hit situation which demanded his consideration , at it had received the consideration of the public . His cabinet was surrounded by Irish proprietors . Was it necessary , ho asked , to mention the names of all the great Irish landed proprietors connected with the noble lord ' s administration ! He mightraention the Marquis ofLansdowne , the Marquis of Clauricarde , in the cabinet , and he mi ght mention Lord Monteagle , who is beating at the door to get into it . ( Laughter . ) He might also mention that nobleman who shook Europe to its centre

      , Lord Palmewton ; he might also mention the Duke of Devonshire , and aim a nobleman who , though not in the cabinet , it i . true , is a magnate , notwithstanding —( laughter , )_ Enrl Fitzwilliam . Had he not come out in support of the project of the noble lord the member for Lynn f He was the first to declare in its favour ; and he ( Mr . Roebuck ) could understand the feelings of tbe noble lord when ho read the speech of Earl Fitzwilliam on the occasion , he ( Mr . Roebuck ) was sure he clapped his bands , and said he had got the sixteen millions . ( Laughter . ) But there was another body

      Jfuluax, Aiarctt .5 Ireland.—On The Orde...

      stronger even than Earl Fitzwilliara , and * iat was ths people of England . ( Hear . ) Ho might mention one more name—a noble lord whose administration h * was sure deserved all praise ; but still there are certain fetlinga in the breasts of all men—be might mention Lord Besboroujh . ( Hear , hear . ) He could go through a great number more , but those were the great landed proprietors of Ireland , in the face of the people of England , who had a narrow and exclusive administration formed for the benefit of persons of this description , for tbe rest is «• leather and prunella . " This is the real administration . There was * a great number of persons on that bench for whom he had a personal regard ; but he wrote them down as ciphers . Those are the real names of the cabinet , and those are the persons who , in the face of the United Kingdom , do countenance those

      who bad sent a deputation to tho nobla lord ( Lord John Russell ) to try and frighten him , and to tell him they would , not have an honest Poor Law for Ireland . Lord J . Russell was a bold man ; but there was no civil courage in his answer to his question of that night— " I caunot tell what I shall do if the Poor Law is not carried . " He could tell his lordship what the house would do in such a contingency—it would throw out both bills . The fact was , Ministers did not know their own policy from one hour to another , and the vessel in which they sailed , like the old Agamemnon , was only kept together by tbe surges of it opponents around it . He then showed , by reference to Sir It . Peel ' s conduct on the Income Tax , and on the Spirit Tax in Ireland , that lie was very . amenable to the people of England , and contended tbat Lord J . Russell must Remade amenable to it also , for his present System would not do , and we roust have a complete overturning of his prcsentpolicy towards

      Ireland , The population of Ireland deserved the consideration of a great statesman , who could convert it into a self-supporting population like tbat of Great Britain . But the most preposterous mode of attempting such a conversion was to lavish criminally Trillions upon it . A Minister ought not to pander to such a state of things . If be did so the consequence would be that the terrible year of lSi 7 would be followed by the stiii more terrible year of 18-18 , and the result ivould be no less fatal to the resources of England than to those of Ireland . He warned tbe house tbat it would not be long before the nation , in iu political capacity , would be called in to pass judgment on all these schemes . English members would hare to answer this question from their constituents : " What have you done with their money ? " and would they dare to reply , " We have thrown it away on the Irish poor , because the Irish proprietors would not give it to them from their resources ?"

      Mr . Labocchebe hoped that Irish members would not be drawn into the discussion of such topics as Mr . Roebuck had raised in his speech . He trusted also that tbe house would refuse its assent to the preposition just laid before it . As a general proposition he did not deny its truth and justice , but under existing circumstances it would be highly inexpedient to extend tbe Income Tax and the assessed taxes to Ireland . If tbe government was " criminally lavish " in expending elght millions upon Ireland , what alternative had it but to expend this money , or let hundreds aud thousands , and even hundreds of thousands , ©! the people of tbat country starve ? He would not then , however , enter into any lengthened vindication of the policy of the government , his principal object in getting up being to express bis hope tbat tbe house would at once go into committee , and embark upon the proper business of the evening . Mr . Shaw thought that before Mr , Roebuck proceeded to assimilate the taxation of the two countries he ought to consider the statistical differences between them

      England was a rich and manufacturing country , Ireland a poor and agricultural country , Tbe population of England was double that of Ireland . Tht produce of Eng . land was £ 150 . 000 , 000 , that of . Ireland £ 30 , 000 , 000 . Wages averaged in England from 8 s . to 10 s . a week , in Ireland not more than 2 s . a week . Tbe rental of Eng . land was £ 70 , 000 , 000 , thatof Ireland was only £ 6 , 000 , 000 . Therevenue of England paid £ 44 , 000 , 000 , that of Ireland only £ 1 , 000 , 000 . In Ireland there were 2 , 500 , 000 persons absolutely destitute in ordinary times ; and 2 , 000 , 000 more , who in England would be thought deserving objects for poor law relief . Circumstances like these ought to be taken into consideration before the bouse aflirmed a resolution like the present . He wished that he could give to the people of Ireland that self-reliance on which Mr , Roebuck had dwelt so strongly ; but a poor law , instead of creating that self-reliance , was a measure better calculated than any other to destroy tbat nascent fueling .

      Mr . J . O'CoNNEit rose chiefiy to reply to certain strictures wbicb Mr , Roebuck had directed against tbe repeal party , both iu ar . d out of the bouse . Was this ihe time in which to extend the taxes alluded to in Ireland , when the incomes of tbat country were curtailed by fully one . half , from the non-payment of rent ! He would give the Poor Relief Hill his strongest support , but would endeavour , at the same time , to defeat certain amendments proposed to it , and seemingly fav-iured by the Government , which , in his opinion , wauld go to nullify all the benefits proposed to be attained by the bill . Mr . Baillie cba : acteri * ed Mr Roebuck's scheme for the relief of Ireland as fallacious . There were some parts even of thiscountvy , in which the land could not be made to contain all the people located upon it . In Ireland , so long as the potatoes were sound , the land could and did support its people ; but now that the potato had perished in many parfc of that country , the land could no longer do so . The difficulties of the Irish question , therefore ' , were not to bs solved by means of a stringent poor-law .

      Mr , He me denied tbat there was a single union in Ireland which could not maintain the poor within it . All that Mr . Roebuck wanted by his present motion , wa * an equality of taxation between the twe countries . There was no reason why this equality should not exist , and he thought the present time as favourable as any other could be for its establishment . As a necessary accompaniment , however , of such a measure , they must also establish an equality of civil , religious and political rights between the two countries . Sir R . Peel did not think that the proper occasion on which to discuss the question of the share borne by Ireland of the financial burdens of the country , nor did he regard the honourable and learned gentleman ' s proposition as tbe best mode of securing his own object . The bill before the house proposed , at a time when about 700 , 000 people were engaged upon public works , to put it in the power of certain proprietors , by borrowing money from the Treasury , to withdraw a portion of these from unprofitable labour , and engage them upon the tillage

      and Improvement of thesoil . The object of the bill was , therefore , a good one , and the mode in which it was proposed to be secured unobjectionable . Best the proposition of the hon . and learned gentleman went to making the loan of a few hundred thousand pounds to certain proprietors tho consideration of Imposing tha income-tax , and other taxes , upon the people of Ireland . This was compromising the real merits of the question . It was treating a problem of great magnitude in a very little way , and prejudicing the honourable and learned ( tentleman ' s own case , by mixing up with the financial question involved in this proposition such extraneous matter as it contained . He did not contest the principle of the resolution , but the whole sutject which it involved was accompanied with difficulties , not insoluble it was true , bu , t such , a * ¦ wCTfeaottoViemetby any general resolution like this . He trusted the house in approaching a bill in committee , which it might find it no very easy work to proceed with , would not , by adopting the proposition of tbe honourable and learned member , encumber itself with additional and unnecessary perplexities .

      Lord J . Rosbeli . thought that in going into a variety of irrelevant subjects , Mr . Roebuck had overlooked the strongest arguments in favour of his own propositi ! m . If they were bow renewing the income-tax , he thought there were arguments in favour of that proposition connected with tbe state of Ireland itself . Some suspicion had been excited in the minds of many by the course vshvtYi the government proposed to pursue in reference to tbe two bills now before the house . They did not pro . pose that these two bills should go together , on the ground that that more immediately under their consider , ation was conferring a boon upon the proprietors , and tbat whilst tbey were gi'ing a boon by the one band they would impose a burden by tho other . It was most desirable that a large portion of the population of Ireland

      should find other employment than that now alf irded them , and be knew of no better means of procuring them this than by encouraging the proprietors to improve their land . Now he doubted if this bill would have all the effect desired , if it were not accompanied by another measure , which provided fur the compulsory maintenance of the starving poor in Ireland by tbe owners oi property . It was upon this ground , and this alone , that It was proposed that both bills should go together . A * to the great numbers now employed on tbe public works , he had the satisfaction of informing tbe house that the government had entered upon acourse , since the passing of the late act , which be had every reason to hope would soon , and greatly , diminish the number at present so employed .

      Mr . Smith O'Brien said be did not rice for the purpoie of bandying compliments with the hon . number for Bath . He believed that nothing would gratify that hon . member more than showing him tbat his speech bad ruffled his ( Mr . O'Brien ' s ) temper , and so far from such being tbe case , he was rather inclined to thank the honourable member for the ardour which he had devoted to promoting a cause which he ( Mr . O'Brien ) warmly advocated . He believed the honourable member bad done more latterly to advance tbe repeal question than any other individual whatever . ( Hear , hear . ) He did not think , however , that he waa ot liberty to pass in silence a " challenge that the honourable member had

      thrown out . Tbe honourable member spoke of the advocates for repeal coming of late with bated breath and whining tones , asking England fur a continuance of the Union . He utterly repudiated any such notion ; and , on the contrary , he would say that every hour of this awful year , and every day that he Bat in that parliament , only convinced him more and m ore of tbe necessity of a domestic parliament for Ireland ; and he wculd psril all that ho was worth in the world to obtain & repeal of the Union next week . ( Hear , hear . ) The honourable gentleman proceeded at some length to show that the financial injustice perpetrated upon IrcUnd at the time of the Union , was a sufficient answer to Mr . Roebuck's resolution .

      Mr . D . CjiiAOflAN-said thatone of tbetwo gentlemen whom Mr . Riebuck had censured for notsub .-cribini f to the relief fund at Mallow , had but a small property in that vicinity , and that tbe other had no property at all there , but lived at Fermoy . It was not for him to attribute motives to honourable gentlemen for any course of conduct they pursued in tbath ^ use , but he thought people out of door * would ash why it was tbat the hon-

      Jfuluax, Aiarctt .5 Ireland.—On The Orde...

      ourable and learned member for Bath had chosen to take up this subject . He would state a fact with reference to tbe honourable and learned member . He ( Mr . Callag . han ) had tho misery one evening this session to sit by the honourable and learned gentleman . It happ « i » ed to be the very night when the honourable member for Water , ford ( Sir II- W . Barron ) said something which seemed to irritate tho honourable and learned gentleman . An honourable gentleman came up at the moment , and , sitting beside him , said , " Roebuek , did you hear what Barron said of you V " I did , " replied tho honourable and learned member for Bath . " Well , " said tbe other

      honourable member , "thty , will all be at you one after another—take care . " "Oh ! " said the honourable and learned gentleman , "Ihave an answer for them all : I'll g ive them what they don't like—an income tax . " ( Laug hter . ) The honourable gentleman who thus spoko to the honourable and learned member for Bath , wore a Quaker coat and broad-brimmed . hat . From his garb he ought to have been a friend ofpeace , and of tbe honourable and learned gentleman ; butbe ( Mr . Callaghan ) was sickened tbat a man , calling himself the friend of pence , shouldaiten . pt further to exasperate the honour , able and learned member for Bath , after the attacks whkh he had already made in that house upon Irish

      landed proprietors . After some further discussion , in which Lord G . Benthick , Mr . Monck'on Milnes , Mr . Muntz , and Mr . Yorke , opposed the motiem on various grounds , and Mr . B . Estcott , Mr . S . Crawfjrd , and Mr . James supported it , The house divided , and the numbers were —• For the amendment 20 Against it ,,, ... ... ... 121

      Majority for going into committee % The house then wentinto committe on tbe bill , whereupon its various clauses passed through committee , and the chairman reported to the house , The report to be brought up on Wednesday . Tbe committee on the Poor Relief ( Ireland ) Bill was then postponed till Friday , after which The other orders of the day were disposed of , and the house adjourned at two o ' clock . TUESDAY , Mabch t > . Mr . S . Cba wfobd gavenotice that on Tuesday , the 23 rd of March , he should move for leave to bring in a bill to repeal the Septennial Act .

      CAPITAL PUNISHMENT . —After the dismissal of the private business , Mr . Ewabt brought forward his motion for tbe total repeal of the punishment of deatb . After reviewing the various mitigations of our criminal code which had been made of late years , and after quoting a great mass of statistical returns to prove thxt crimes had decreased as the severity of punishment had diminished , be inferred therefrom tbat tbe infliction of death was no longer necessary as a safeguard against crime . He came to this conclusion from reflecting on the improved system of prison discipline which we had recently adopted , on tbe Increased strength of our police force , and on tbe better education of tbe people . The disproof , however , of tbe necessity of tbe infliction of death as a punishment did not lie on him ; on the contrary , the proof of its necessity was thrown on those who

      argued for the continuance of capital punishments . He urged not only that the punishment of death was not necessary , but also that it was positively iajuviousto tho administration of justice , to the criminals themselves , to the juries who found the verdicts , and to the public for whose protection these sanguinary penalties were en . acted , Beecaria bad said that the great moral value of punishment arose from the certainty of its infliction . Hut in this country you could not inflict death as a punishment even in every case of murder . Your Jaws , therefore , created a system of moral gambling in tbe minds of your criminals , and they staked their lives against their chance of escaping punishment . It also evented sympathy for the criminal instead of an abhorrence for his crime . It weakened the force of your tribunals , as both judge and juries looked not to the crime , but to the punishment subsequent to the proof of it , and

      were , tberelore , morbidly sensitive to tbe responsibility under which they acted . It was not even useful as an example tothe public ; for it was not invested with the pomp sf a solemn ceremony , but was inflicted at an early hour in the morning , as if to withdraw it from publicity . He might be asked what punishment he would substitute for that of death in cases of murder . To that question he replied that he would substitute imprisonment tor life . He would cease to make punishment a civilized revenge , and nould give the criminal time for repentance , instead of closing the gates of repentance against him . He thought that from the better education ef our people the time was now arrived when the great experiment which he recommended could be safely and successfully tried . He , therefore , called on the house to sacrifice old prejudices on the altar of civilization and of Christianity , and to give him leave to bring iu a bill for tbe total abelitioa of capital punishment .

      Br , BowaiNO seconded the motion iu a short speech , in which he further enforced the arguments of Mr . Ewart . Sir G . G & ey observed that he could not consentto tbe sweeping measure recommended by Mr . Ewart , inasmuch us he proposed to abolish the punishment of death not only in the most aggravated cases of murder , but alio in cases of high treason , where life to an indefinite extent might be sacrificed by the guilty attempts of those who committed it . So one now wished us to retrace the steps which we had already taken in the mitigation of the severity of our criminal code ; nor was he prepared to say that in some cases we might not even still proceed further . The only legitimate object of punishment wag the prevention of crime and the protection of society , Mr , Ewart contended that the punishment of death did

      not answer that object ; but his arguments in support of that position appeared to him to he anything but satisfactory . It was true that since the j ear 1811 there were certain classes of crime on which capital punishment had not been inflicted ; but it was also true that since that time no case of murder had taken place in which the execution of tho murderer bad nut followed . There had been in consequence a decrease ia the number of murders committee ) of late years ; aud he attributed that result to the certainty with which extreme punishment followed the commission of tho crime . In the case of murder , public opinion was not iu favour of the ahuli . tion of the punishment of death ; oa the contrary , he believed that it would be shocked by the enactment whiclt

      Mr . Ewart proposed . Thepublie were of opinion that life was protected by tbe continuMiee of tbe punishment of death ; and as a proof of it he referred to the readiness with which individuals prosecuted , a » d witnesses came forward , and juries convicted in cases of murder . He concluded by giving a direct negative to the motion , Mr . Homk contended that Sir G , Grey had not lUot any of tbe arguments of Mr . Ewart , but bad evaded them all . He asserted that there was great hesitation on the part of juries to convict at present iu any case where death was certain to follow a verdict of ' ¦ guilty . " He implored the house to proceed in the good couise in whie-li it had been proceeding lor some time past , and to allow this bill to be introduced .

      Mr . Aoliokbt denied that public opinion was in favour of the continuance of the punishment of death , and contended tbat it was not for the public good to inflict it any longer . He should support tbe motion for bringing in this bill . SirR Inglis contended , upon theological grounds , tbat it was not left to human legislators to consider whether , as a matter of expediency , they should or should not inflict death in eases of murder . The Divine Legiflator had declared that " whosoever sheddeth man ' s blood by man shall his blood be shed , " We might deem it expedient to abolish death in cases of forgery , sheepstealing , and other crimes , but wo were not at liberty to abolisb death as a punishment for murder . Mr . Brother-ton controverted ihe doctrines of Sir R , Inglis , and declared bis intention to support tho bill . The house then divided , when there appeared—For the motion 41 Against it ... SI

      Majority against it ... ... 40 AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS . —Mr . M . Gibson moved for leave to bring in a bill for the collection of agricultural statistics in England and Wales . The house was fully agreed as to tho importance of obtaining agricultural statistics ; and tho object of this bill whs to create the machinery by which they could be obtained . It was proposed to procure returns from every occupying tenant of not less than live acre's , containing a description of every soi t of crop , be it wheat , barley , or oats , suvu upon his laud . The returns were to be annual ; but iu liioe it should b « found that annual returns were unnecessary , and that they could be raoro conveniently given at longer periods , a dispensing power was given to tbe Board oi

      Trade to call for tbern atinore distant intervals . England and Wales were to be d ' vieleel into Superintendent Regis , trars' districts , and these again were to be divided into Registrars' districts . The Registrars would be authorized to appoint agricultural enumerators to communicate with the fanners . It was through this machinery that lie proposed to collect these statistics . The enumerators would return their papers to the Registrar , and the Registrar would return tbem to bis Superintendent . By the Superintendent tl . ey would be tabularized , and forwarded to the Board of Trade , by whom they would be reduced into proper form , to be submitted to Parliament . It was proposed to obtain similar returns from Scotland end Ireland , but in a different wny , wbicb be briefly described to the bouse .

      Mr . Home contended that this was a very wild and useless inquiry , aud that the statistics in question eemUl be more easily obtained by cul . ing for such reiui'lis from every parhh in tbe kingdom . After a few words from Mr , Ileniey , leave was given to bring in the bill . MORTALITY IK VRELaJSD . —On the motion of Mr . S . O'BaiKN , a return was ordered of the number of persons who have died in each parish hi Ireland during t-ueh month since the 1 st of November , 184 G , in so far a * the same can be ascertained by information derived from the inquiries of the constal'ulary , speciij ing the number \ i \\ o have died from starvation or disease consequent upon the insufficiency of food , with a summary for the whole of Ireland .

      A conversation of some duration took ph \« e , on the polie-y of making this return , in which Sir G . Grey , Mr . J , O'Connell , Lord John Russell , Mr . Agliouby , and other members joined . The success of the motion w us endangered at the close of the conservation by a declaration ot Mr . S . O'Brien that from 200 , 000 to 240 , 000 peio , us had perished in Ireland from starvation , lie would never cease to arraign the Legislature if such a state of things tve-re allowed to continue , and lie wo & 'ld take every opportunity of publishing to the world that bis countrymen were allowed to perish like vermin by tho Bi itisb go-

      Jfuluax, Aiarctt .5 Ireland.—On The Orde...

      vernment . This calledup Mr . Hume , who remarked that as Mr . S . O'Brien had declared that not one individual should be allowed to perish from starvation in Ireland , he must call on that gentleman to declare explicitly how such a result was to be prevented . He would not allow such a charge to bo brought against tho government , when its humanity towards Ireland had been extended beyond all due bounds . In this declaration Mr . Henley joined , and cautioned the government not to allow any returns on the accuracy of which it could not rely , to be made on this subject . The motion was granted . The other orders of the day were then disposed of , and the house adjourned at fi o ' clock . WE 3 NESDAY , Mabch 10 . The House met at twelve o ' clock .

      ARREST FOR DEBT ( IRELAND ) BILL . — Sir II , W . Barrom moved the second reading of this Bill . The honourable gentleman explained the previsions of this measure , the main object of which was to assimilate tbe law of arrest in Ireland to tbat existing in England , prohibiting arrest for debt when tho sum demanded is under £ 20 , The Solicitor General ( for Ireland ) did not wish to meet the bill with any positive opposition , but he trusted that the honourable gentleman , if he would not consent to withdraw it altogether , and leave the matter in the bands of the Government , would at least consent to postpone the second reading of it until he had time properly to consider its provisions . He had scarcely been three weeks in the house , and from the multiplicity of other objects demanding his attention , he bad not as jet bad time to giro it tbat consideration which it required at his hands . If the hon , gentleman would consent to press the bill no further , but leave the matter entirely in the handiof the Government , be would promiso him that it wonld undergo the most serious consideration .

      Mr , Shaw was not prepared to offer any opposition at present to the principle of the bill , but he hoped tbat the honourable gentleman would comply with tbe suggestion of the Solicitor-General in respect to it . Mr . Moncktok Milnes supported the second reading , adducing a variety of instances in which the law of arrest , as it at present existed in Ireland , was converted to purposes Involving the grossest abuse of it . Mr , Laboocbebe said tbat he was unwilling to give any distinct pledge that if the measure were then withdrawn the Government would bring in a bill with a similar object to that of tbe bill now before the house . His

      chief reason for refusing this pledge at present was the groat pressure of Irish business which existed alreadysome of which he feared would have to be postponed if the Government undertook to bring in a bill like that proposed bj the honourable gentleman , Considering the importance of the many Irish measures already before them , he thought it would be unadvjsable to risk the passage of any of them by encumbering themselves with a measure of this nature . The subject would , however , undergo the best consideration of tbe Government , and he hoped the honourable gentleman would consent to go no further at present , without extracting any pledge from him beyond that already given .

      After some further conversation the bill was withdrawn . DRAINAGE BILL . —The house then went into consmittee on the Drainage Bill , Some amendments were proposed to the measure by SirG . Grey , tbe object of which was to render certain the application of tbe money borrowed from the Government to the purposes designed , and to extend tbe benefits to be derived from tbe bill ns widely as possible , which amendments were concurred in by Sir J . Graham and by Lord G . Ben tinck , the latter , however , expressing an opinion that more money than was proposed should be expended for the purpose , if it was sought to carry it beneficially out . The different clauses of the bill , with the amendments proposed , were severally adopted in committee .

      The next business which occupied the attention of tbe house arose on bringing up the report on tbe Landed Property ( Ireland ) Bill , some new clauses to which having been brought up , the further consideration of the report was postponed till Thursday . The house adjourned at G o ' clock . TKURSDAY . March 11 th . Lord George Bentwck moved for a comparative return of tbe number of deaths which have occurred in each parish in Ireland , commencing the 1 st day of September and ending the 1 st day of March respectively . The noble lord believed the government were in posses- »• sion of informaiion showing that 240 , 000 persons had perished of famine and disease in Ireland .

      Mr , M . Milxes , who briefly reviewed Lord Jjhn Russell ' s speech of Thursday last upon the subject , then maintained tbat the assent of the house to the resolutions now before it would give additional force to the protest which the government had deemed it its duty to mak « against the incorporation of Cracow , If tbe noble lord persisted in bis declared intention to move the previous question , such a course would be liable to miscoustruction abroad , and would materially weaken the protest alluded to . He then adverted to the origin and proceedings of the Congress of Yienna , for the purpose of showing that Cracow did not become a "political body" by the exclusive consent of the Three Protecting Powers . The independence of Cracow could not have compromised the security of either of their states , and it was in order

      to get a pretext for invading that independence that Cracow became subject to the most systematic and vexations annoyances ; amongst which be might instance the armed occupations to which it had n : ore than once been subjected . It was by these annoyances that Cracow was driven into those acts which led to its absorption into the Austrian dominions . All this he conceded to be , to a great extent , the result of a dereliction of duty on tbe part of this country and France , Had consular agents been sent by these countries to Cracow , on the occasion of its first armed occupa-. ion , the misfortunes which bad since befallen it might have been averted , andits liberty and independence might have been permanently secured . Lord Palmerston bad intimated that a consular ageat would be sent thither , but neither he , nor his successors in office , after

      that intimation was given , had carried it into effect , and he trusted the noble lord would explain to the kouce the circumstances which prevented hitn from carry , ing bis formerly expressed intention into execution . The atrocity of the act , whereby the independence of Cracow was extinguished , was most apparent when it was considered that all that had been attained by it , so far as Russia , Prussia , and Austria were concerned , might have been secured without any violation of thetreaty of Viennr , As t ; the payment of the RuSSO . Dutch Loan , one of the considerations for which we bound ourselves to that payment was the adhesion of Russia to the general arrangements of tbe treaty of Vienna . It was undeniable that Russia had disregarded some of the more important of these arrangements , and with the violation of aay of them our bargain to pay the money feUtothe ground .

      Dr . BoffRiNc aud Mr . T , S , Dbncohbe supported the resolutions . Sir R . Inqlis supported the first resolution , as did also Lord Dalmeny and Sir W . Moleswortb conditionally . Lord Mabon and Lord G . BtNTl . vcs strenuously opposed the resolutions . Sir R , Pbel bad the greatest doubt as to the right of this country to relieve itself from the Treaty of 1815 and the Convention of 1831 ; and if there could be any question of such a right , he doubted the policy of attempting it . It was evident that we had received the Cape of Good Hope , DtUierara , Escquibo , and Berbiee as an equivalent for our portion ot the interest of the Dutch Loan , and it was an express stipulation

      that the payment of the interest shall continue even in the event of a war with Russia . Supposing then that the violation of the Treaty of Vienna was so ibtfrast as that we should go to war with Russia , still , he contended , we should be bound to continue the payment of this interest . The right honourable baronet being therefore unable to agree in the practical conclusion recommended by Mr Hume , was prepared to give that portion of the resolutions a direct negative ; and doubting the policy of afllriiiing the first portion of the resolutions , he was prepared to meet it by votingfor the previous question , although he repeated his opinion that the incorporation of Cracow by Austria was a violation of tbe Treaty of Vienna , and an in & uVt to the spirit of Europe .

      Sir J . n Aisn moved tbe adjournment of the debate till to-morrow ( Friday ) . Lord J . Russell strongly objected to a postptmement . The debate was finally adjourned to Tuesday next .

      Forthcoming Meetings. Assembly Rooms, 8s...

      FORTHCOMING MEETINGS . Assembly Rooms , 8 S , Dban-sirbet , Soho . —Mr . T . M . Wheeler will lecture on Sunday evening , March loth , Subject— " The Effects of Monarchical and Aristocratical Government . " Asnwir . —A meeting of members will ba held on Sunday evening , at six o ' clock , in the Chartistroom . Barkslet . —Mr Mirfkld will deliver a lecture on Sunday evening , at eight o ' clock , in Mr Pickering ' s large room . Subject— " The Rights of Man . " Bmmingiiam . — The petition committee , and all persons holding petition sheets , are requested to meet at the Ship , on Sunday evening , ( to-morrow , ) and bring their petition sheets . Bacup . —A meeting will be held in the Chartiatroorn , Rochdale-road , on Sunday , March 14 th . Cliair to be taken at half-past ten o'clock , a . m .

      Biunroito . —The members will meet in the large room , ( formerly the shooting gallery ) , Buttenvorthbuildings , at two o ' clock , p . m . The petition and other committees vfili meet , nsabove , at three o ' clock on the same day . Buky . —The members will meet on Sunday afternoon , in the room over the Old Water Works , Clarkstreet , at two o'clock . BmsTOL—A meeting will beheld on Monday evening next , to adopt the memorial to Lord John Russell for the release of Frost , Williams , arnl Jones . Chair to betaken at ei » hto ' clock .

      Messrs . Clark and Doyle will visit the following places during the ensuinc wt ek : —Plymouth , Devtnport , Buckfastleigh and Totnesa . Finsbvhy . — An olnc-uliouary entertainment , «! k . will be given nt the City Lecture Theatre , Alil . oiistrect , on Wcncsday next . T . S . Duncombe , E * q ., will take the chair at 8 o ' clock precisely . The committee have issued an attractive programme , and between the parts , Mr . Butler , ti young and vrry clever imitator of many of our popular actcrs , will appear . The proceeds of tlie benefit are i « aid of the

      Forthcoming Meetings. Assembly Rooms, 8s...

      library of the Mutual Instruction Society . —Mr . T S . Toole will deliver a mathematical lecture on Monday evening next , at nine o ' clock . ' Greenwich . —A general meeting win he held at Mr Paris's , Cold Bath , on Tuesday , March 16 th to take into consideration the propriety of calling * a public meeting-, to investigate the conduct of Admiral Dundas , in votin ? against the repeal of the Rate , paying Clauses in the Reform Bill . A subscri ption has commenced in aid of Dr M'Douall , and " West ' s Tcstioioma ' . " Hull . —A meeting will beheld at the Ship inn Church-lane , on Sunday evening at six o ' clock , on business of importance

      Lancashire Mivhrs . —The next general 'delegate meeting of Lancashire miners will be held at tho Wheat Sheaf , Coppull , near Cborley , on Monday March 22 nd , chair to be taken at eleven in the forsl noon . There will also be a public meeting , which will be addressed byWP Roberts , Esq , and other gen . t , emen . Livkrpool . — A meeting of members will be held on Sunday evening , March 14 th , at Mr Fan-ell ' s , 4 , Cazncau-street Manchester : —A tea party and ball will he held at the Grand Hall , Cnmpfield , on Good Friday afternoon , in honour of the principles contained in the People ' s Charter ; and in commemoration of tho Land Scheme , propounded by F O'Connor , Esq Marylf . bosk . —Mr . J . F . Lindon will dclivar a lecture at the Coach Painters' Arms , Circus-street , on Sunday evening ( to-morrow ) at seven o ' clock precisely . Subject—* ' Political Economy contrasted with Natural Economy . "

      Nbwcastlk-on-Tvnb . —Dr . MDonalIwill ; fecture at the Quay-side on Sunday , March 14 , at two o ' clock ( weather permittine ) . The Dr . will also lecture in the lecture-room , Nelson-street , on Monday , March 15 , at eight o ' clock , p . m . —Correpondence respecting the Dr . ' s tour to be addressed to Mr . J . Nisbett , 6 , Gibson-street . Oldham . —On Sunday ( to-morrow ) Mr . Joneg , o £ Manchester , wijf lecture in the school-room of toe Working Man ' s Hall , at six o ' clock , p . m . Subject" How can Labour best emancipate itself ?" Rochdale . —On Sunday , the 28 th instant , the Chartist council will meet in their room , Millstreet , at ten o'clock in the forenoon , instead of Monday night . Shotxrv Bbidgk . —Dr . M'Douall will lecture her » on ThursdayMarch 18 _ __

      , . ,. , ___ Stjhdrrund . —a general meeting of members will be held on Monday , March loth , at half-pa * t seven o ' clock , at 5 , Number ' s Garth , to nominate the Executive Council Dr . M'Douall will lecture here on Tuesday and Wednesday , March 16 sb . and 17 th . Stockport . —Mr Robert Wild , p f Mottram , will lecture on Sunday evening , at six o ' clock . £ Soho . —The General Election and Central Registrition Committee willmeet at the Assembly Rooms , 83 , Dean-street , on Tuesday evening next , at eight o ' clock . The secretaries of the several local com mittecs are invited to attend , and supply information respecting agitation for repeal of the rate-paying clauses of the Reform Bill . The National Victim and Patriot Widow and Orphans' Committee mwt as above , at seven p . m . of the same day .

      Meeting Op Journeymen Bakers To Shorten ...

      MEETING OP JOURNEYMEN BAKERS TO SHORTEN THE HOURS OP LABOUR . On Wednesday evening a numerous meeting of tho operative bakers of the metropolis was held at the White Conduit Tavern , to take into consideration the best means of shortening tbe hours of labour , especially as regards night-work . Mr . Oastlcr , " the Factory King . * was present . It was expected that Mr . Buncombe , M . P ., Mr . Ferrand , M . P ., and Mr . C , Cochrane , would hava been present , but they sent letters of apology , expressing at the same time sympathy in the object of the meeting * Mr . Wakley , M . P ., was called to the chair .

      The Chai « kaic then proceeded to address the meeting , and said—Tha object of the promoters of tbat meeting was to release themselves from a grievous wrong ; and if men who suffaved from wrong quietly wibvavtt & d to its Infliction they were sure to be bad citizens , and well deserving of the sofferinps Imposed on thorn . ( ITear ^ hear . ) He knew of no class of workmen who suffered the same amount of misery , of annoyance , of persecution , and degradation , as the j » uraeymen bnkers of London , ( Hear , hear . ) How they had borne it so long he could hardly understand . It was only to be explained in this way—tbat by the time they began to get angry with the system they died . ( Hear , hear . ) There was not a greyheaded man amongst them . He understood that a greyheaded Journeyman baker was as difficult to find as a dead donkey on a common . ( Laughter . ) How was this ? There was no union amongst tbem . { Hear . ) Iheir

      dough Was not well set . If they only heated their ofn ovens for themselves as wall as they heated thtra for others , they would not be there to complain of the grievance which had culled them to gether . ( Hear and laugh , tcr . ) It depended on themselves , then , whether they would be able to produce a batch to their own satisfation , ( Hear . ) He was told tbat there were 7 , 000 journeymen bukers in London , many of whom had families . But b » understood that tbe masters did not like to employ married men . ( Cries of" True . ") Now , many of those who eat bread really knew nothingof the labour which was expended in its production . They little knew that the production m" that Vjrtad was the cause o ? grievousdiseases , nnd that frsquently twenty out of the twentyfour hours were employed In its manufacture , ( Hear , hear . ) Nay , he was informed that frsquently men we » e engaged in the bakehouse for two days tojethtr , without being able to etirfrom the toil which they had to endure .

      Now , was there a necessity for this state of things ! ( Loud cries of "No , no . " ) If they only combined be . nestly to relieve themselves , they must be successful , for their cause was a good one . The question was , how vera tbey to succeed ? Fir-t , by combination ; next , by dig . cussion ; and , lastly , by temperate agitation . ( Uear , hear . ) Their proposal was , ns he understood it , not to be employed more th . in twelve hours a d ; iy . —( Hear . ) Well , he thought this was quite long enough for men to be engaged in any employment ; but when it was recollected that the journeymen bakers were tmployed at the mouth of an oven , in a temperature , varying from 75 to 85 , and then in a moment passing into one berlow tho freezing point—when it w «» recollected tbat the effect of this system was to bring on a short cough , nn 3 that the consequence was a continuance of disca-e ending in premature death—he thought these were additional reasons why , in the baking of bread , the hours of labour should be limited to at least the number here mentioned .

      —( Hear . ) Then , again , he wished to know if it was necessary to work at night {—{ Cries of " No . ") Some say that it is , and some that it is not . —( Cries of Xo . ) Vi'hy was it necessary to work at night 1 To supply nice hotrolls to phase the diseased palate of some old maid ?— . ( A laugh . ) He , for one , was willing to assist , and would exert all his power and influence to produce a change in n system which was alike destructive of the health , comfort and morals of the class affected by it . — ( Htar , bear . ) Mr . Ives , an operative baker , in moving the first resolution , which declared that Ihe hours of labour duringwhich the journeymen bakers were employed , namely ,

      from eleven o'clock atnight to five and six the following * evening , and their occupation during the night , was injurious to them physically and mentally , and destructivo of their domestic comforts , said , that although there might be some doubt as to tho possibility of giving up night-work , there could be none as respected the short , cning of the hrurs of labour . —( Hear , hear . ) Not only did men connected whh tbe baking business die earlier , owing to tbe severity of the labour which they had to undergo , but tbe old men were set aside in order that young men might be engaged—so that the old men wer » only to be found in the workhouses , or in some raiser abla room In some wretched house . —( Hear , )

      Mr Williams , another operative , seconded the resolution , and said that 12 hours were quite long enough for anyjournejmauto wovk , andthe ' masterthfttcouldiiotdo business with suck hours' employment ought to retire from it . ( Hear , hrar . ) The spsakor then protested a ) -ain 5 t ihe * ystem of night working , and observed that ib « journeyman baker was fastened down in the bakehouse , so tbat if a fire were to take place in Hie house he might be destroyed before a chance of escapa could be afforded . He knew persons to diein the bakehouse , and the fact was not known until the master cameto learn ihe result of the baking . ( Hear , hear . ) They must make an effort to

      get rid of the grievance of which they complained . " Let it come slow , or let it come fast , Wc will endeavour to be free at last . "—( Cheers . ) The resolution was then put from the chair , and ajrrted to . "Mr . Read then proposed the nest resolution , which waa to the ( fleet that night work , and the hours of labour during which journeymen bakers were employed , were the cause of the ruinous competition which exutcd in the trade , «! sc . ilr . Kead proceeded to refer to the history of baking , and to contend that the present system was highly injurious to the workmen as well as to the trade at large .

      The resolution having been seconded , was put and ad carried . Mr . Oastlfu then moved the adoption of a petition to to Parliament , praying it to pass a measure to restrict th » h * hours of labour of the journeymen bakers to twelve hours , rs , and to nbohuh night work . The masters were to be so- solicited to sign the petition . Mr . Oastler contended that iat out of the twelve hours even two ought to be allowed fo » fo » meats . He also contended that by shortening the hours urs of labour , a bonus would be given to labour , so that iu- iustiad of the principle being injurious to the working man , an , it would be serviceable to him . Ho contended also , that hat the only way to ensure protection to tho workmen , was was by obtaining an Act of Parliament on the subject . — t . — . ( Hear . ) The resolution was seconded and adopted , Tlintiks having been given to the chairman , the meet- eetiug separated .

      Printed Bv Dougal M'Gowan, Of 1g, Great Windmill- Mill Street, Llnynmrket, M Tli» City Of Westminster , Ilt The T Till

      Printed bv DOUGAL M'GOWAN , of 1 G , Great Windmill- mill street , llnynmrket , m tli » City of Westminster , ilt the t till

      Ollii-I'I In The Sumo Street Ami I'Ansh,...

      Ollii-i ' i in the sumo street ami I ' ansh , for the Pro- Pro privtor , FEMIGUS O'COXNOU , Esq ., ami publishedishe < by William Hewitt , of N « . 18 , Charlcs . strect , Hran-llran doiLsttvct , Walworth , hi th « parish of St . Mary , New- New ingUn , in the Cnuuty « f Surrey , at tho Office , So . 16 , o . 16 Great Wiadinill-street , Ilajuwrket , iu Uv & City uiSV est . SV est minster . SRtm-ihtv . Jliuok lSUi , 1317 ,

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), March 13, 1847, page 8, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns2_13031847/page/8/