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      Mabch 10, 1849. . The Northern Star

      MABCH 10 , 1849 . . THE NORTHERN STAR

      Imperial Barliamnrt,

      Imperial Barliamnrt ,

      Moxday, Mabchs. House Of Lords.—Scoica M...

      MOXDAY , MabchS . HOUSE OF LORDS . —Scoica Marriages Axn JtEGisiBATioN Bnxs . —On the question of the third readingof these bills , The Harl of Aberdeen repeated bis objections to the Marriage Bill , at the same time admitting that while the Registration Bill on the one hand would remedy some existing defects , on the other it would entail great inconvenience . There was but one feeling in Scotland on the subject of these bills , and that -was a determined hostility to their becoming

      law . Measures of this description deserved mucn more caution , and be never availed himself of the privilege of parliament with greater pleasure than m entering his protest against the Marriage mi , which he considered both impoUtic and unjust . Lord CAUTBEiidefended the measures , which had been nnder consideration in three session ! and contended that in no civilised country in ^ the ^ world could marriages be effected as m Scotland under the existing law . The bills were then read a thud time and passed . . . _ , , » ,,. „ IrelandBill

      The Vice-Guardians of Unions ( ) on the motion of the Marquis of Laxsbowxk , was read a second time . xT .-r .-i * After a few words from Lord Stan-let , the Earl of Wxckmw , the Bishop of Cashel , and tho Earl of Lucas , the second reading of the Relief of Distress ( Ireland ) Bill having also been moved , Lord Brougham urged that the giant of £ 50 , 000 was too little to be of permanent use , and too much , because it ought not to be given at all . A national polity must be in a most diseased state when other supplies were looked to than those which arose out of the industry of the people ; and this the people of Ireland ought to be made to understand . The hill was then read a second time , as also was the Buckingham Assizes Bill , and their lordships adjourned .

      HOUSE OF COMMONS . —Among the questions put to ministers previous to the commencement of public business , was one relating to The War nf the Pcxjacb . —Mr . Heme said : Seeing the noble lord at the head ofthe government in his place , I wish to ask him a question , but I feel considerable difficulty in shaping it in such a way as to obtain suflicient information . But , sir , after the statements which we have seen in the Gazette of Saturday List , and in the Gazette prior to that , relative to the affairs of India , the state of that country can no longer be a matter of indifference to every man who looks to the future . ( Hear , hear . ) I should be sorry to prejudge any man , and particularly one who is not present to answer any statements that

      might be made , hut certain facts which are developed in the despatches wbich were received three or four weeks ago , without any relation to the late melancholy transactions that have taken place , authorise me in inquiring whether her Majesty ' s ministers have taken any measures to place the army in India under such command as shall obtain the confidence of the men , and secure all those advantages of art and science which we , as a civilised nation , possess for the purposes of warfare ? It appears from the despatches that in recent events those advantages were not used , and I do hope , therefore , that her Majesty ' s government will state what measures they have taken to ensure better success for the future . ( Hear , hear . ) . Lord J . KcssEii ( whose statement was received

      with the most profound silence ) said : There can be no doubt that the state of our military operations in India must be a matter not certainly of indifference hut ofthe deepest interest , to every member ef this House . ( Cheers . ) I can , however , only state at present , that her Majesty ' s government , after considering the intelligence which has been received , have offered to her Majestv that advice which they think best calculated to meet the emergency which at present easts in that part of her dominions . But I have not as yet received her Majesty ' s reply to the advice which 1 have humbly tendered to her Majesty ; but as soon as that answer is received , and can be with propriety communicated to this House , I will lose no time hi laying it before it .

      The Ibisu Rate is Aid . —The House having agam gone into committee on the rate in aid resolution ofthe committee on Irish Poor Law , Mr . Osborxe opened the debate by stating that whatever differences might exist in that House as to the resolutions which had been brought forward by the noble lord , there could be no dispute that the case had been fairly put , which amounted to this , that the poor law had entirely broken down in the western districts of Ireland , and that the House was called upon to levy a contribution on the north and south of the country to support the poverty of the west . After the reasons they had heard in favour of the proposition , that no one could resist the conclusion that her Majesty ' s

      ministers were not able to grapple with tho tremendous difficulties hy which they were surrounded , for they were now only administering a palliative , instead of attempting ' a cure , and it behoved the House to pause before it entered on a course of policy which would destroy the vitality of the eastern and northern unions without communicating any permanent benefit to the western . It was all verv well to suppose that the rate in aid Would amount to £ 250 , 000 , and that it would all come out of Irish pockets ; but what security was there that the money to be drawn from the consolidated fund would he hereafter paid from the rate in aid ? There was only one precedent for the course taken by the noble lord , which would be found in " Gil

      Bias . " It was the treatment of Sangrado , for here was Ireland complaining , and the political Sanfado of the day was suggesting the necessity of a tie more blood letting . He was prepared to vote for any motion which would make the rateable property of Ireland available for the sustenance of the poor , but the House ought to have some guarantee that tho rate to be levied should not be spent in eleemosynary grants . It was the duty of the government rather to assist in introducing some system of home colonisation and of emigration to other parts . Political economists might object to such measures ; but the great master of that school , Mr . Mill , had expressed a contrary opinion , having put the casein which the western unions could only be relieved from the

      pressure to which they were subjected , "by emigration or starvation . " If the noble lord was worthy of his place at the head of the government , he was bound to come forward with a definite plan , which had not simply for its object the support of this population by eleemosynary relief . It seemed a fashionable jdoctrine that , because a poor law had heen granted , parliament had done its duty to Ireland . A poor law did not add to the capital or revenue ofthe country , but rather diminished them . He had himself found It necessary , from the increase of rates , to discharge labourers . He had to thank ihe government for having made him last year pay £ . 1 , 000 . But he had to discharge labourers in consequence . Yet it was said government had given a

      poor law to Ireland , and the property of Ireland should support its poverty . That was a most dangerous doctrine . They might speak of Louis Blancism—and , in justice to Louis Blanc , it ought to be stated that he had not set the ateliers nationaux , on foot , as had been alleged ; they might speak of Poulctt-Scropeism , but the system now proposed , if it were to be carried out , was nothing but a system of legalised Communism . Government went a begging and asked every one "What do you proposeT * ( A Voice . — "What do you propose ? " ) He would volunteer his opinion to the noble lord , though the noble lord had not asked hhn to take a scat in the Cabinet , and before he sat down the noble lord would probably obtain a greater

      knowledge of Ireland than before . He would suggest for the noble lord ' s adoption three measures—first , a bill to enforce the sale of lands which bad not contributed their share to the poor rates ; secondly , a hill to remodel the whole system of estates in the hands of receivers in Chancery ; and lastly , a meagare which would free the land from all restrictions , and make it an article of easy sale by simplifying transfer and tithes . These measures might be too bold for the noble lord , who might rather be disposed to content himself with coming to Parlia ment for an occasional dole ; but it was for the House to adopt measures which would be adequate to meet the circumstances of the case . He knew not what effect the noble lord ' s dream ofthe future might have on the minds of hon . gentleman . The noble lord said he had no doubt that Ireland was in a state of transition ; and that at no distant

      period she would be prosperous . The noble lord told the House that , when the starving people should crawl like famished rats on the barren soil , new modes of cultivation would be introduced , and spontaneous harvests would follow . Lord J . Russell—I said nothing like it . Mr . Osborne continued . —He had come to the cheerless conviction that , so long as the destinies of ihis empire were swayed hy tho present combination ef parties , so long would Ireland have no hope hut in looking to the root which had caused her present destitution , and England would have no proiection ^ from the painful effects of that union which infused * the infection of pauperism into her more healthy and lest corrupted frame . He should vote against the proposition on the present occasion , thouoh , if the noble lord had come forward with 8 ome plan suited to the urgency of the occasion , no man would have been more ready to give it his

      lir K . PEES , without one word of P * f &^ addressed himself to the consideration of the two question before the House—first , whether , in the present state of Ireland , they should leave the people of cettain districts to he supported exclu sively by the unions or electoral divisions in which thev lived ; and secondly , if theywere of opinion that extrinsic aid was necessary , frtom what source was that aid to he derived ? He could not in the present state of Ireland , consent to throw , the support of the poor exclusively upon the individual unions . If they newrefosed extrinsic aid , the con- j wquences would be greatlogg of life , lirst by famine , and then by disease , as its consequence . Be could

      Moxday, Mabchs. House Of Lords.—Scoica M...

      not believe that the House would adopt so painful an alternative . The system of indiscriminate aid might have an injurious tendency , but what answer had they now to make to the individual sufferers themselves—those who had been taught by them to rely more upon charity than upon their own exertions ? Such a policy mig ht be wrong , but it was not now upon its victims that its consequences were to be visited . In the late unparalleled state of Ireland courses might have been adopted which , had there been bettor opportunities for foresi ght , might have been avoided . But there tbe people were menaced with starvation , and he could not now consent to let them starve , no matter from what source the aid might be derived . He gave his support , therefore , under all the circumstances of the case

      , to the proposal now made to provide some extrinsic aid to the suffering unions . As to the source whence aid was to be provided them , he thought that the other parts ofthe empire had every right to demand from Ireland a strenuous effort to support her own poor . He did not rest his demand for such an effort on the ground that there was no equality of taxation between the two countries . Ireland should make the effort on different grounds . The vicinage in England supported the poor when the parish was unable to do so . But this principle would be defective in its application to Ireland , a consideration which led him to prefer a general rate to the plan of making a nei ghbouring union contribute to make up the deficiency of a suffering one . There was another ground ' on which tbey were entitled to call

      tor such a rate in the present juncture . On what principle did Ireland refuse to repay the advances of £ 1 , 200 , 000 made for the erection of union workhouses ? The amount of this sum repaid did not exceed £ 36 , 000 . If Ireland would immediately repay it he would relieve her from the proposed rate in aid . But finding more than a million sterling due on this account , not likely soon to be repaid , and that the principle of vicinage would be defective in Ireland , he had no alternative but to vote for the proposed rate . He would , therefore , vote for the rate , although he believed it to be an incomplete and ineffectual remedy for the real difficulties ofthe case . The right hon . ' gentleman then drew the attention of the House to the most important question before them—that connected with the future

      prospects of Ireland . A mere temporary advance did not relieve them from the obligation of considering it . What would be the condition of several ofthe Irish unions after this relief was exhausted ? It was now incumbent on them to do something in earnest for the purpose of laying the foundation of a better system for Ireland . It would be unwise any longer to rely upon the potato . Not only was that root liable to disease , but its cultivation was being rapidly diminished . This was the case in the union of Ballina , which might be taken as a type of several of the Irish unions . That union was at one time well supplied with fish ; but it appeared that this source of subsistence was also failing it . This being so , what were its prospects ? and , if it were to be taken as

      a specimen of other unions , what were the prospects of a large section of Ireland , unless something were immediately done for its rescue—something tending to the improvement of the physical and moral condition of the people . There was but one remed y which he thought could be successfully applied . On that remedy they might , in his opinion , place reliance , although it might be somewhat slow in its operation . The remedy which he proposed was the introduction of new proprietors , who would enter with capital upon the cultivation of the land , with new feelings , and inspiring new confidence into society in Ireland . He would not propose to gain such an advantage by any violation ofthe rights of property . But he thought that it would be possible for the

      government , with the sanction of the House , to devise the means whereby new capital mi ght be introduced into Ireland for the cultivation of the land , which seemed to him to be the only feasible course which lay before them , if they would brighten the prospects of that country . They had precedent for what he now proposed . By the aid of the government , extensive settlements were made in Ulster in the time of James L — settlements afterwards extended to Leinster , and from which the happiest results followed . He trusted that , by the adoption of some similar course , equally beneficial results might be now secured . But unless they applied , to some degree , the principle of settlement then acted upon , he could anticipate no permanent improvement in tbe condition of Ireland . If the

      application of it were now to be attempted , he trusted that it would be done without doing that which was the chief blot in the scheme carried out in James the First ' s time—the establishing of distinctions on account of religious belief . Let them do something like tliis , with a careful regard to all the existing rights of property , and they might have some ground for hope that a better system would ere long arise in Ireland . He was quite aware that an act bad been passed , last session , to facilitate the transfer of real property . But he feared , considering the provisions of that act , and the alterations which it underwent at a late period of the session , in its passage through the House of Lords , that it would not be found effectual for its purpose unless some additional aid and stimulus were given

      to the transfer of property . If they relied exclusively upon that act , they would not secure that infusion of new blood into the west of Ireland which was absolutely essential for its physical and moral regeneration- They would make but little progress towards their object if they relied simply upon individual purchases . It was with deference that he made any suggestion on this matter to the House and government , but he did think that it would be prudent to appoint some commission which would , after examination , pass its deliberate judgment upon the proposed scheme , and consider the possibility of effecting that change in the possession of property , without doing violence to existing rights , which he regardedas indispensable to any permanent improvement in the condition of Ireland . To carry out this purpose it might be necessary to have some intermediate agent by means of which they could get possession of the property on equitable terms , and afterwards arrange and manage its

      re-distribution . He would repeat , that in carrying out this proposal for the introduction of new blood and new capital into Ireland , by working a change in the possession of property , no violence must be done to the just rig hts of the present proprietors . He would purchase no advantage at such a price . But if they took a comprehensive view of the present state of several of the unions in Ireland , the conviction would be forced upon them that such a change of possession was necessary . How to effect it was the difficulty . To do so not only was the intervention of the government necessary , in his opinion , or that of some commission or other authority , acting in concert with the government , but they must also extend to such parties as might be ready to invest their capital in Irish property a guarantee that they should not be overwhelmed by the poor-rates , and that tithes should be made secure . They should , for instance , be guaranteed that for ten , twelve , or fourteen years , the

      poorrates should not exceed a certain maximum amount But whatever they might do in this respect , the main hope for Ireland was now in the transfer of property—a transfer to be effected with every attention to the rights of property , and to be effected through the intervention of the government , or of some commission acting in concert with it . Whatever means tbey resorted to for the permanent improvement of Ireland , they could be better applied after getting the proposed rate in aid , wherewith to meet the present emergency . The right hon . baronet thus concluded his speech , and was listened to throughout with the deepest attention : —I am most unwilling to assume the functions of the government to propose anything in lieu ofthe present plan—all I can say is , that if the

      representatives of Ireland should be favourable to an equitable commutation of a tax upon personal property as well as upon land , I shall be most willing , after having obtained the vote for a rate in aid , to listen to the proposal which was made by an hon . gentleman , whose suggestions arc entitled to the utmost respect from his personal character , his knowledge of Ireland , and his attachment to her best interests—I allude to the hon . gentleman the member for the county of Limerick ( Mi * . Monsell . ) I shall then be most willing to listen to his proposal , and substitute a Property Tax payable upon personal property as well as upon land . I am not sure , if I had a Property Tax so levied in L-cland , that I would not consent to appropriate its proceeds tn relieve her from her most nainful position . If I

      had a Property Tax in Ireland , I hope it would be for a period suflicient to afford a prospect of extrieatin" her from her difficulties . If it were levied on the princip le ofthe English Property Tax , varying the details according to the circumstances ofthe country , I should not object to apply the proceeds of it to that purpose . I' think that that would be a most useful appropriation . I look to the west of Ireland with perfect despair , if the present state of things is to continue . ( Hear , hear . ) I care not whether you get £ 3 Wftw or . £ 400 , 000 this year , and the same sum next year ; I am deeply convinced , that unless you make some more vigorous effort to rescue the country from the calamity under which she is now sufferin ? . and the evils now

      impending oyer it , her condition at the expiration , of the two years will he worse than it is now—her nabits ^ of self-dependence destroyed , her people overwhelmed with hopelessness and despair , and property will be more uncultivated and perfectly unsaleable and valueless . The west of Ireland affords opportunities for improvement which , speaking comparatively , no other , part of the world appears to & l ' rli ^ S *? eat ^ orld S T * up on the other side ot the Atlantic ; I see the facilities of communication by railways and by steam . I see every reason , why Ireland , if her position in respect to tenure could be improved , should be most prosperous . I recollect some lines in one of the ballads ' that were published at the time ofthe unfortunate rebellion in 179 S-when men of talent were direct , jig their 8 Pih ' ty and morts to propagate treason and

      Moxday, Mabchs. House Of Lords.—Scoica M...

      disaffection—which appear to me to be most applicable to Ireland" ^ Y ^ en Em first rose from the dark heaving floodi « od blessed the green island , and saw it was good ' In sun , and in soil , and in station twice bless'd—Her back turn'd to Britain—her face to the west . " Her face will still continue to be turned to tho west > but I think , now , you have an opportunity of con ' ciliating her affections and binding her to this Country . If you leave her as she hes she is overwhelmed with poverty and despair . But now , by a vigorous effort , in which every part of the empire shall join , it appears to me that there .-ire opportunities , by a new constitution of property , by

      inviting with the aid of the government new capital to be invested in the cultivation of the soil—it appeal's to me that you have opportunities of materially improving her * condition , and , if you succeed , of extracting from her present state of calamity and wretchedness the means of future prosperity and happiness for herself and of strength to this united empire . ( Cheers . ) Major Blackall moved as an amendment , " That an auxiliary fund , for the relief of the extraordinary distress in Ireland , be raised by a rate not exceeding 6 d . in the pound , to be levied on all property and incomes in Ireland above the annual value of £ 150 . "

      Mr . W . Bbown considered that if Sir Robert Peel ' s plan was carried out , it would afford the best guarantee for the future prosperity of Ireland . Having kept a debtor and creditor account against that country he was prepared to show that Ireland owed England £ 300 , 000 , 000 ; and he thought it but just , therefore , that the Irish should put their hands in their own pockets instead of applying to the industrious inhabitants of Yorkshire , Lancashire , and other English counties for assistance . He should vote for the rate in aid . Sir E . Macnaghien , Mr . Scully , Sir W . Verses , Mr . Boukke , and Sir A . Brooke , addressed the House against the rate . Mr . Clejiests urged the imposition of an incometax rather than a rate in aid .

      Mr . B . Roche supported the resolution because it proposed a temporary relief for a temporary want , because he thought it was due to the English people who had such sacrifices for the relief of Irish distress , but he did hope the rate would not be levied until after harvest . Referring to the speech of Sir It . Peel the hon . member said nobody could say that it was not a most important speech ; but at the same time , he must say that there was a great deal in that speech from which he dissented . In the first place , he was rather inclined to question his historical conclusions . He did not agree with him that the plantation of Ulster was a great boon conferred by England on Ireland . Bethought , on the contrary , that it was a great blotand stain on the English character that that plantation had been effected in the way it had been . ( Hear . ) The right hon .

      gentleman had quoted an Irish ballad of 98 . He ( Mr . Roche ) , with reference to this point , would quote a stanza from an Irish ballad made by those who planted Ulster two centuries after the p lantation . ( Shouts of laughter . ) He found he had made a slip of the tongue . It was a propensity of his countrymen to do so , and he would not deny his countrymen . ( Continued laughter . ) Well , here was a song . ( Renewed laughter , and loud cries of " Sing , sing . " ) He was afraid he could not sing amidst so many mterruptions , but here were the words" The battle of the Diamond"( Far let the watchword fly )—" Where craven Papist rebels crouched " Upon the earth to die ; " Slam by devoted men and true , " Who fought with heart and blade ,

      " And slaughtered in then * ambush vile "By swords they had betrayed . ' ( Laughter . ) He confessed that he did not anticipate much benefit to Ireland from such plantations , but the right hon . gentleman also proposed that the government , by means of a commission should purchase some of the estates of Connaught , and sell them to new proprietors . If the object were to create an independent yeomanry in Ireland he believed that some good would be done ; but if they merely bought the estates from tho present Ero prietors , who had manifestly neglected their duty itherto , and put in their place another set without taking some security that they would not follow exactly tho same course as their predecessors , he feared that evil would be done in place of good .

      The right hon . gentleman also said that he saw no reason why they should not purchase the Conhemara property , lie ( Mr . Roche ) had no particular objection to their doing so , but he feared they would not find it a very profitable concern . He did not think that King Williamstown , in the county which he represented , had turned out a very profitable speculation . ( Hear , hear . ) But if the right hon . gentleman really ' wished to regenerate Ireland , let him face the question of tenure of land ; let him bring in a bold , practical measure to enable the money of the farmers and yeomen , which was at present lying idle in the savings-banks , to come into connexion with the land which was lying untilled , and he would not only benefit the country at large , but do great credit and honour . to himself .

      Sir A . Brooke opposed the rate as impolitic and unjust . Sir G . Ghet , after adverting to the inability of the distressed unions , if left to their own resources , to support their poor , observed that he saw no alternative but to procure , from some source or other , extraneous aid by which to supply for the time being the deficiency of means in these unions . This seemed , indeed , to have been admitted on all hands . It had also been admitted , but by no means so generally , that the time had at length come when a stop must be put to the system of repeated applications to parliament for grants for the support ofthe Irish poor . If the Imperial Exchequer was no longer to be called upon tor such grants , and the aid

      now required was to come from some resource in Ireland itself , the question was , whether the proposal made by government for a general rate in aid , was not tbe least objectionable mode in wbich that aid could be secured . He then proceeded to consider and refute the objections urged against the proposal by Mr . Osborne , Mr . Stafford , Mr , Monsell , and others . The government was charged with introducing a new principle , but that which it introduced in connexion with this proposal was not so novel as would be that of extending the income-tax to Ireland and applying its proceeds to local purposes . Yet this was the substitute which was proposed by those who accused tho government of abandoning beaten tracks and introducing new

      principles , lie then met the objections to the rate which those who spoke on behalf of Ulster urged against it . Objection had been taken to the proposed rate , because the valuations were different in the different unions and electoral divisions in Ireland . It might be possible partially to correct the inequality of valuation , if not entirely to remove it , but its correction or removal would be a comparatively slow process ; and was there a single member ofthe House who would take upon himself the responsibility , in the present state of Ireland , to postpone the imposition of the rate until valuation was equalised ? The government proposed the rate simply as a tem-Eorary measure , and in proposing it as such it would ut ill acquit itself of its responsibility if it did not

      contemplate some other measures designed for the permanent improvement of Ireland . The right hon . baronet the member for Tarn worth had expressed an opinion that the government was bound not only to provide the means of relieving the destitution at present existing in the west of Ireland , but to look forward and adopt measures by which that part of the country might be placed in a condition of independence , so as to render unnecessary these continual calls for extraneous assistance . He entirely concurred in the opinion expressed by the right hon . baronet , tbat the remedy for the disastrous state , of things existing in the unions of the west of Ireland was the transfer ofthe great bulk of the property from the hands ofthoso who had inherited it

      overwhelmed with burdens , with incomes insufficient to enable them to discharge the duties of proprietors , to others possesssd of capital sufficient to furnish employment to people on their estates and to insure the proper cultivation of the soil . The right hon . baronet said that be would do nothing which was inconsistent with the rights of property ; but experience showed how strongly the influence of education and of long cherished habits inclined common law and Chancery lawyers to consider all the forms employed in their profession essential to the maintenance of the rights of property . Much benefit would be experienced if purchasers were relieved from the dread of competing for the purchase of estates encumbered with an accumulation of arrears

      of poor-rate , and one of the propositions which his noble friend intended to submit to the committee up stairs would be directed to that object . If , in accordance with the right hon , baronet ' s suggestion , a commission should bo appointed to decide upon all questions of property , the members of it must be lawyers , and in that case the same delay would be experienced as was now complained of with reference to the Court of Chancery . These were some ofthe observations which it occurred to him to make with reference to the right hon . baronet ' s proposition , but any suggestion arising j from that nuarter must necessarflycarry great weight with it ,

      and was entitled to the fullest consideration . Lord CAsiLERBAon having moved that the chairman report progress , to which Lord J . Russell objected , the Committee divided upon thai motion , which was negatived by 251 to 104 . The motion for adjourning the debate being , however , renewed , Xord IT ' Russbm . yielded ,- and the chairman reporting progress , obtained leare to sit again on Tuesday . •'; "¦ -. In disposing ofthe remaining business , a division took place upon the appointment of the Select Committee on the Briberyat Elections Bill , when there being only thirty-four members present , the House adjourned at one o'clock . TUESDAY , March 6 . HOUSE OF LORDS .--AmiRS of Sjciw . —

      Moxday, Mabchs. House Of Lords.—Scoica M...

      hSad bi ' , ltlons ^ inst a rate in aid for Ire-Lord StaK W ¥ vavious ^ ^ > wasbtheh-S ? ed t * - ether a contractor ' who ^ rnment M ^* - ?™ 18 ' to the British aSfrom thJ ™ een al ! owed to wi tbdraw such 3 Tb ? tt & ' lt St 0 res f 01 ' P ^ se of fiS , o 2 n ? T he mm' ^ * Sicily . * rnnitv nfW- - La ? sdowj * was glad of an oppo * - Sffimin ^ T ? , ° real ,, tate 0 f th 0 case A flieSi , VS haafboG 1 \ . «» t ™> tor for arms to lutumn ^ i 0 VC 1 'r < intdd ' . tue cou ™ of last eluded ' or ? r ° th ° x TT tic ( ? m SiciIy ™ conoonthui ^ - * l nyrate before it was known to be concluded m this country , make an application to the Boardof Ordnance for permission ^ ake back froni the stores some guns which he had ™ LX > _ tureci tor her

      Majesty ' s service , and that , too for the-ayowed purpose of fulfilling another contract made with the Sicilian government at that Se of OMnfnf fos °£ ™? ™ ° ™ nted . The Svd unti 1 ™ S ' " - thcir asscnt to that application , Sefv Si ' 1 Wasmade in another quarter K & nlip * r Secretai'y of State for ForeignAffairs oSSeo ^ Si " T as made . ' then t & o Board of auentlvSnl ^ ° desired , and they conse This iimS t 0 , take the arms out of s " >™ - IxuKKh fu % f ^ borised , i ! called upon , to KSS f ' and t ° Btete that * ll ! l ( l oc ° u « -ed taken to n ? , ^ nce , and that measures would be I li ?> mit lt ? recurrence in future , snolcen £ ° . Ax said the noble marquis had ment l , oc tllC lns ^ 'gents as the Sicilian governmenc , ile supposed he meant the insurgent

      governw ~™ n , ^ ls i ' - 7 VSD 0 ™ P liedlie meant the government dc facto , the insurgent government . « , n « l-7 h n . ™ " \ otortedthatnc sftould as soon £ i < W > Bwen ' a oommittee "the English comm % . ? cal 1 the insurgent government in Sicily " the , Sicilian government . " The Earl of Ellen-borough , in reply to Lord Brougham , said it was true the people of Sicily had risen against the government of their King , but they had previously to that a constitution demure , if not de facto , and stood pretty much in the same position as tho people of England did before King William the Third ascended the throne . They desired the ') -re-establishment of a constitution , to which they were as much entitled as the people of England were to have their rights secured to them

      by Magna Charta and by the llevolution . The Earl of Aberdeen thought , if this country had given to Sicily ai guarantee to maintain her rights , it was their duty to assist her , but if no such guarantee had been g iven , it was most , dishonest and disgraceful to affect a neutrality which was not honestly observed . As the noble marquis , however , had stated that the government was fully aware of every step that had been taken , he would make no further observation on the subject . The Duke of WelukotOiV said : the King of the Two Sicilies , commonly called the King of Naples , assumed the former title when he signed the act of accession to tbe treaty of Vienna , and he inserted in

      that act a certain condition , on which he accepted the sovereignty , and specified the manner in which the government of the island of Sicily should be carried on . It was true that tho English government were not bound to enforce the execution of that article of the treaty , or of any other , on other powers ; but England was bound not to commit a' breach of that article , which unquestionably would be done by supplying arms to the present insurgents in Sicily , England being bound to remain neutral . He hoped it would be found , when the general question was discussed , that no step had been taken which would bo construed into a breach of any part of the treaty .

      The Earl of Mixro had been mast anxious in executing his mission to maintain the union of the two crowns ; but he could never consent to treat the peopleas being in unlawful rebellion against their sovereign . On tho contrary , they were asserting a right . wliich they had a reasonable prospect of obtaining . He had been roost desirous in his interference to induce them to accept the conditions which were offered to them by the King ofthe Two Sicilies in 1812 . Lord Brougham suggested to his noble friend that he should read the treaty of Vienna at least three times , and then state whether the King of the Two Sicilies , was the King of only one or both . The Earl of Mixto said the treaty of Vienna only provided for the restoration of tho king to his Neapolitan dominions , but recognised him as King of the Two Sicilies , in addition to which ho was King of Jerusalem .

      Lord Brougham . —But you did not go to Jerusalem . The Earl of Mi . vto already knew the treaty of Vienna pretty well by heart , but he thought there were circumstances connected with the history of the period which were unknown even to the noble and learned lord . Criminal Returns ( Ireland ) . —Lord Monteagle in an explanatory speech moved for returns showing tho amount of crime in Ireland and the amount of mortality in the prisons of Ireland for the last five years . Eail GfiEv had no objection to the motion , but denied that the mortality or overcrowding in the Irish prisons had arisen from any alteration in the law of transportation , but in consequence of the greatly increased number of persons who had been sentenced to that punishment during , the last two years .

      The Duke of Richmond complained of tho difficulty there was in obtaining accurate returns from Ireland , and was loth to take for granted any statement that came from thence . He also complained that the number of Irish labourers wandering about the country was a great source of alarm , and trusted some means would be taken to put an end to such a deplorable state of things . The motion was then agreed to . The Belief of Distress ( Ireland ) Bill ; the Vice-Guardians of Unions ( freland ) Bill and the Buckinghamshire Summer Assizes Bill , were respectively read a third time and passed . Their lordships then adjourned . HOUSE OF COMMONS .-Mr . John Mitchel . —Mi * . 110 B 1 N 80 X said , that seeing the First Lord of

      the Admiralty in his place , he begged to put a question to him of which he had given notice . The right hon . gentleman not having held any official situation last year , he begged to inform him that he inquired last year whether there was any foundation for the rumour which was then circulated ,- that Mitchel , the convict , on his way to Bermuda in the ship ' Scourge , had messed with the officers , and had been' treated in a manner by Commander jyingrovc , which , if true , was greatly derogatory to hhn . Hcnow begged to ask whether the Admiralty , having , as he presumed they had , made inquiry into the subject , had received any report from the commander on the North American station on the subject , or whether Commander Wingrove had made any attempt to vindicate his character from the aspersion which had been cast upon it by the rumour in question .

      Sir F . Baring said that the rumour referred to was quite correct in so far as that Mitchel did dine at the captain ' s table on board the Scourge ; but it was not true that ho messed with the officers in any shape . He dined at tho captain ' s table that he might be separated from the other officers , who the captain considered ought not to be brought into contact with him . The captain ' s sole object in so doing was to keep the prisoner in safe custody in a manner consistent with humanity and the state of tho prisoner ' s health . ( Hear , hear . ) The Admiralty had made full inquiry into the subject , and they were quite satisfied that the captain had not been actuated by the motives which had been imputed to him , but

      that he had been merely anxious tor the prisoner ' s safe custody and his separation from the officers and crew . ( Hear , hear . ) Mr . Robinson begged to remind the right lion , gentleman that the Secretary of the Admiralty had stated that orders had been given to Commander Wingrove that Mitchel sheuld be confined in a separate cabin , with a sentry over it , ; and that he should take Jits meals in a separate cabin . From the explanations now given , however , it appeared that these orders , had been deviated from . He wished to ask whether , the Admiralty proposed to take any notice of Commander Wingrove ' s disobedience of the Admiralty orders ?

      The Armv in India . —Lord J . Russell then rose and said : The hon . member for Montrose having asked mo a question yesterday with respect to India , I stated that her Majesty ' s ministers had given advice to her Majesty on tho subject , but that until I received a reply from her Majesty I could not answer the question of the right hon . gentleman . I have now to state that the advice , which I humbly tendered to her Majesty was that Sir Charles Napier should be appointed Commander-in-Chief of the army in India . ( Loud cheers . ) Her Majesty has been pleased most graciously and fully to approve of that appointment . ( Continued cheers . ) Both the Duke of Wellington , tho Commander-in-Chief , and I have seen Sir Charles Napier to-day , and I have the satisfaction to state that he is ready to obey her . Majesty ' s wish that he should proceed

      to inaia in the capacity in wnicn ner Majesty has appointed him-. ( Renewed cheers . ) The Court of Directors have not yet met—I believe they , will meet to-morrow ; but from what I know of their patriotism ; ' I'fully , expect that . they will receive with joy and satis / action the appointment . wbiqh . her Majesty has been pleased to make . ( Prolonged applause . ) Personal Explanation . —Sir H . W . Barron made an attempt to explain the circumstances ^ nder which his unfortunate Trial of Offences ( Ireland ) Bill , reiected last week ,, was drawn up , but only made tho matter worse . He attributed it in ' tho : fii * St instance , to Mr . Beswick , the assistant barrister , Who repudiated its authorship in a lotteraddrossed totnepapors . and . also to . the . House , . but he . allowed that Mr . Beswick : was by no -means complimentary to him . The Rate in aid . —The House again went into committee on the Poor Law ( Ireland ) , tho debate

      Moxday, Mabchs. House Of Lords.—Scoica M...

      being resumed by Mr . Grogan , who opposed the rate in aid and was followed by a number of Irish members who all took the ' same view of tho subject . Mr . D . Callaghan , Mr . M . J . O'Connell , Captain Jones Mr . F . French , Mr . CoNOLL \ - ( a new member ) Lord Castlereabh , Colonel Dunne , and Mr . St . George , all opposed the government proposition on various grounds and ' in lengthened speeches . Lord Lincoln also threw his weight against the government by expressing his determination to support the amendmen ^ because he considered it , although defective , to be . a step in the direction of the only sound principle , the principle of equal taxation , and

      if that amendment should be earned he should then bo prepared to vote for assimilating the Income Tax between the two countries , making Ireland pay 7 ^ d . and notCd . in the pound . Mr . Muotz wanted to know what was the reason why countless loads of produce came from other countries antt not from Ireland . It was not bad land that was out of cultivation , but good land . Capital , it was said , was wanted ; but capital would not go there without remuneration . With respect to the proposition ofthe government , ho thought it was a bad one ; but as he considered that all poor rates should be national rates , ho should vote for the amendment , as he thought it more just .

      Lord John Rubseli < then rose to reply to what had fallen from Lord Lincoln . The House generally seemed agreed upon the two propositions , that assistance was necessary for some of the western unions , and that that assistance should be received from Ireland herself . The question , then , which remained was , in which of two ways was the required aid to be drawn from Ireland—whether by raising the taxation of Ireland towards an equality with that of this country , or by having recourse to a special rate or tax for the purpose . He did not propose this rate , as an equivalent for tlie unequal taxation between the two countries . Ho thou proceeded to consider Lord Lincoln's objection to the rate founded upon the defective valuation which prevailed in Ireland . As to the proposal to substitute an income-tax for this rate , he reminded tho noble lord that to collect that tax a new machinery must bo instituted

      , which would not be necessary to collect the rate . But if tho House , at the " Suggestion of an Irish member , preferred an income-tax , he would bow to its decision , although he warned the Irish members that , whilst some of them objected to the rate because it might extend beyond the two years , the income-tax would certainly do so . It was from no want of consideration that be then omitted particular allusion to Sir It . Peel ' s suggestion . He would say , however , that in his opinion it would be difficult now to pursue a simil ar policy to that pursued in James the First ' s time , with a- hope of attaining ' the same results . He then left the question in the hands of the committee . . If it granted the rate in aid the destitution of the western unions would be relieved , but if it preferred the amendment , those Irish members who were clamorous for an income-tax would succeed in their object .

      The committee then divided , and the numbers

      were *—For the amendment . „ ... 1 C 4 Against it ... ... ... 237 Majority against ... ... —73 Mr . Reynolds proposed that the rate in aid of sixpence In the pound should be charged on all salaries of government officers of not less than £ 150 a year , and of all incomes derived from the public funds , on mortgages , and on all incomes derived from property in Ireland . After a short discussion , the committee divided , when the proposition was negatived by a majority of 161 , the numbers 51 to 212 . A division tiien took place on the main question , when tho rato in aid was carried by a majority of 172 , the numbers 206 to 31 The House then resumed , leave was given to bring in the bill , and the adjournment followed at a quarter to two o ' clock .

      WEDNESDAY , March 7 . HOUSE OF COMMONS . — Real Profeiity Transfer Bill . — Mr . Drummond , in moving the second reading of this bill , said , that he had better state at the outset what he was not going to say . He was not now going to allude in any way to the lawyers in this matter . He did not think that in the present state of the question it was a matter which concerned the lawyers at all . He should endeavour to show that it was tho landholders alone who were interested in it . If the lawyers should come forward and help them out of their troubles they would of course be much obliged to them , but the lawyers as a body had no reason to be dissatisfied with things as they were ; whereas

      with the landowners it was quite the reverse . Before he attempted to show how the landed proprietors must get out of their difficulties , it would bo necessary to call the attention of the House to the manner in which they got into them . The difficulties in which the landed property of the kingdom was involved wore as old as any institution of the country whatever .. Their origin was simply thisthe king took possession of the land of the country , and divided it into about 720 parts , under the name of baronies , & c . These lands were given to certain persons upon condition that they should furnish a certain number of men when required for the defence of tho country . In other words , the landlords defrayed tlie whole expense of a

      standing army . They subdivided the lands among other persons , who held them by a similar tenure to that by-which thoy themselves hold them of the King . But the landlords of those days ran into debt very niuch as landlords did now . ( A laugh . ) Their creditors wanted to . seize the land , but the King said , " You shall not seize it , because I want military service , and unless you are a fit person for that purpose you shall not have the land . " Besides , he might mention the King derived a great revenue from fines of inheritance , marriage of wards , and the like . Well , the creditors went to tho judges , and asked what they were to do in these circumstances . The judges said , "It is true you can't touch tho land , but you can prevent the

      owners from having a bit of anything that grows upon it . " And so it came to pass , that there were persons then , as there were now , who were content to bo called the nominal owners of land over which they had no control . But then they wanted to provide for various persons , and , being unable to part with the land , individuals were appointed into whose possession tho land was nommally placed , with full power to receive the profits arising from it , and to apply them to the required purposes , thoy paying over whatever remained to the real owners . Hence came the system of trusteeships . This tenure of land began to die away under the Tudors , aud was finally put an end to under the Stuarts . Then came the system of complicated settlements , - under which , with a view of indulging the vanity of founding families and perpetuating their names , parties

      made provision for every possible contingency that might happen to every child they had , or should , or might have , and their descendants after them . The consequence was the establishment of the power now exercised by the Court of Chancery , by which that court had first of all to guess when and how certain contingencies had arisen , then what the dovisor intended by his different devises , and next what wore tho means for carrying it into effect . So that really and truly all that the [ people complained of with regard to the lawyers , under the present system , came out of their own follies . / Hear , hear . ) The expense of sales was immense , owing to these causes . Before making a sale it was necessary to prove that with respect to your father , your grandfather , your great-grandfather—and ho did not know how much farther back—all the

      settlements that had been made were exhausted , and that every single person who could by possibility become entitled to the property was either dead or disposed of somehow .. ( A laugh . ) He held in his hand a list showing the lieavy costs which had arisen in nine cases of sale , of small property , but would trouble the House with reading only one or two of them . There was , first , tho case of a property which sold for £ 12 , 000 , on which the costs of sale amounted to £ 200 , or about seventeen per cent . ; another , which sold for £ 500 , on which the costs amounted to £ 124 , or twenty-fire . per cent , ; a thii'd , in which tho property sold for £ 150 , and the costs were £ 50 , or thirty-three , per cent . ; and a fourth , in which the property sold for £ 620 , and the costs

      of sale amounted to . £ 200 , being about thirty-three per cent . also . ( Hear , hear . ) Every attempt which had been made to diminish the expense of sales under the present system , had been futile . People talked of long recitals being the cause of the expense of preparing deeds ; but he would be glad to know bow they were to predetermine the length of a recital without knowing the nature of the deed . The length of-the recital must depend upon the matter to be recited . ( Hear , hear . ) They could not expect a boy to recite the whole of Homer's Iliad in twenty minutes . ( Laughter . ) Under the present system , therefore , it was hopeless to expect to derive any benefit from shortening recitals . But that was not the worst of it .. The owners of property were completely in tho hands of solicitors . They knew no more about their lands than they did about what was-going-on in China . They knew

      that there was a . box of . parchments belonging , to them , and that some of . those parchments had a bit of red wax tied to thorn ; but that was all they knew . Their solicitor brought them a paper ; to sign , and they signed it ; and . after putting a seal upon it they , delivered it as their act and . deed ; but what it contained they knew no more than a blushs ing bride ofthe marriage settlement to which she was led forward , covered , with a veil , to put her name . ( Laughter . ) Now , he contended that unless they cut up the whole . system by the roots they would do nothing , What he wanted to : make ; the country gentlemen understand was this , — - that it was their business to deliver themselves out ' of " the hands of the solicitors . They were a solibitor-ridden people . ( Hear . ) It was : possible to have the expenses of a court of law taxed ; but how on earth could they tax any attorney ' s bill ? It was impossible ( Hear , hear , ) The only means , in his opinion by which an effectual alteration could be made

      Moxday, Mabchs. House Of Lords.—Scoica M...

      in the present system was by having a re » gister in tho first place , and by making the transfer of property by a register in that book , just as at present they made sales of stock . In framing this bill he had to consider , first of all , that Houso , and , second , his own position in it . Ho had to nnd out to what extent the House was -oreparedtogoalong with him in this object , boor-use it was impossible to bore a hole with a saw , on to divide a tree with a gimlet . ( Laughter . ) If he had known how far hon . members were prepared to go along with him ho would have framed his bill exactly to that point , and would have expanded or contracted it according as he found ilient inclined to go further than his proposal or to stop

      short of it . In short , he would have made his bill like a pair of lazy tongs , by which persons were able to catch small objects a long way off . ( Laughter . ) But he had found considerable difficulty in this part of his task . With reference to a system of compulsory r & giatration , the objection was , that if it was ! adopted , there must be machinery ready prepared to receive upon the same day every single title-deed-in the kingdom . Now , he had heard the number of landowners in the country variousl y stated . He had heard it stated as low as 80 , 000 , and as high ass 280 , 000 ; but ho could not find out whether that included copyholds of inheritance or not . If the com * pulsory system were adopted , therefore , they would reauiro to have a machinery ready prepared . In

      the Register-office at Edinburgh he found that tiiere was business enough to fill -100 folio volumes annually . The registration should be voluntary—for , in tha first place , compulsory enactments with respecs to property were always dangerous ; and , in the second , the more cautiously they proceeded the better In » measure such as this , which would have the effect of altering the whole body of the law . He had a very great contempt for what were called extensive plana of legislation ^—t hey wore generally the mere creatures of empty heads , unable to perceive the difficulties in the way of thcir p lans . Taking it for granted , then , that the registration would not ho compulsory , it remained for the Legislature to determine how fax ? tho principle of registration should go . But when

      the House thus had given a parliamentary title to property , and refused any further search or question of it , it was but fair-that they should impose any conditions they pleased , and limit still further tha power of entail . ( Hear , hear . ) There were always plenty of people wise enough to find fault , who , though they could not see any harm in a thing itself , could look a great deal further into' a millstone than other persons , and were able to pcrceiva a bad motive for it . ( A laugh . ) To obviate the chance of any one saying he ( Mr . Drummond ) had a . personal interest in the question , he would at oncestate , that . every morsel of his private property waa settled in trust for ever . ( Hear , hear . ) Why , then , did he meddle in the matter ? Because for yeara back he had been convinced that if they would sava the landed proprietors of this country they must ; adopt some measuro . to save tho value of land . Tha measures they had lately passed would soon rcalisa

      tlie anticipations 01 the hon . member fov Bii'imngham witli respect to the landed interest , and , if they wished the land to be cultivated any longer , it would be absolutely necessary to bring increased capital into the pockets of the landlords and farmers ( Hear , hear . ) Tho Solicitor-General , assured the hon . gentleman that amongst the legal profession ' there existed a ' very general knowledge of tho great evils resulting from the complication of titles , the necessity which existed for simplifying them , and of making laud as easy of transfer , and of raising money upon it , as there was in disposing of funded stock , tha only difference of opinion being in which way that * object could behest effected . Having given the hon . ' § entleman's bill the best consideration , he felt ; eund to state that if it were passed in its present ' shape , the only persons who would derive benefit from it would be the lawyers , for it would give rise

      to more lawsuits and contests in courts of justice than any measure ever adopted by Parliament . On « a ofthe groat defects of the bill was that it did riot ; detail what was intended to be registered , and took : no notice whatever of interests in remainder and interests in reversion . Again , some ofthe clauses were still more singular , for tbey contained nothing to prevent any man from registering a title to his neighbour ' s estate , and getting absolute possession of if after a period of thirty years , and the effect would be to throw the whole country into a state of litigation . The whole subject was under the consideration of the registration commission , composed of eminent barristers , who were about to make a re « port ; and ho therefore suggested to the hon . gentleman the propriety of withdrawing the bill , and oil introducing some other measure hereafter more calculated than tho present to carry his very laudable

      views into effect . Mr . W . P . Wood considered that all that was re- ' quired upon tho present occasion was that the Ilousa should assent to the principle that a bill for general registration was imperatively demanded , England in point of fact being the only civilised country ia the world where such a system did not exist , tha result being that in Trance , Belgium , Holland , and America , estates sold for thirty-five years' purchase , while they rarely exceeded thirty-one in this country . He thought it behoved the country gentlemen , therefore , who desired to see the burdens of land diminished to bestir themselves , and endeavour , by tho adoption of a general registry , to check the evils of the present system of transfer , which often impled an expense amounting ,. upon the value of the

      property , to five , or six per cent . Tho discussion was continued by other members . Sir G . Grey , recommended the withdrawal of tha bill , seeing that no hostility to its principle had been shown , ana that ought to satisfy the mover , when taken in connexion with a promise that the government would on receiving the report ofthe commission take the matter up . This , however , did not satisfy Mr . Drummoxd , who insisted on dividing the House . Tho galleries were cleared but re-openei again after a short interval , when the Attorney-GEXERALwas found on his legs protesting agaUst tha bill , and moving " that it be read a second time that day six months . The House divided on this motion , and the numbers

      were—For the amendment 45 Against it 55 Majority —10 The announcement of the numbers was received with cheering . The bill was then read a second time . When the reporters were readmitted , Sir G . GitETwas expressing a hope that tho result of referring the bill to a select committee would ' be to free it from those objections which were felt by * hon . members who advocated an open system of registration . Mr . F . O ' Coxxor recommended that not a single lawyer should bo appointed upon the committee . ( A laugh . ) The bill was then ordered to be referred to a select committee .

      Foreign Affairs , —Mr . Bankes moved for an account of all ordnance stores returned from that department to any contractor in the year 1848 for the purpose of being sent to the Sicilian insurgents in arms against her Majesty ' s ally the King of the Two Sicilies , with tho consent of her Majesty ' s government . The hon . and learned gentleman' then proceeded to diverge from his motion into a variety of circumstances connected with the aftairs of the Two Sicilies , subsequently returning to the subject of the arms supplied under the circumstances recently referred to in the House of Commons , and in the llouse of Lords , on Tuesday night , stating that he could not conceive any state of circumstances under which it would be right to dispose of arms to

      insurgents to attack their lawful sovereign , until there had been a recognition of their independence , and yet this had been done under the authority of the Foreign Secretary , the responsibility thus incurred not being denied . ' Lord Palmehstox had no objection to the first part of the motion , but should oppose tho concluding words , dividing the house if necessary , viz . : " sent to the Sicilian insurgents in arms against her Majesty ' s ally the King of the Two Sicilies , with tho consent of her Majesty ' s government . " The noble lord , after some general observations as to' tha course pursued by Mr . Bankes in anticipating the debate which would take place when the papers relative to Sicily were presented ^ said * . —The hon . and

      learned member seemed to consider that all persons who took up arms hi vindication of their rights were insurgents and rebellious subjects , that nations wero made for sovereigns and governments , instead of sovereigns and governments having been oppointed for the benefit and advantage of nations . He would not follow the hon . and learned gentleman into a discussion of the affairs of Sicily , but this he would say , that the Sicilians had had a constitution ; for centuries , that their rights were ancient and indis-S utable , and that those ri g hts were confirmed by the irect and passive sanction of their sovereign in 1812 , when their ancient constitution was remodelled and reformed . At that time their constitution

      was sanctioned article by article , and therefore if the Sicilians had , in recent times ,- risen in arms to assert , their ancient rights , and to regain a constitutioa wliich had never been abrogated , which had only by an abuse of authority been suspended ,, he-could not concur in stigmatising the Sicilians in the manner that the resolution did . ' The noble lord thea proceeded to defend tho general foreign policy of the ' government , stating in conclusion that thi , oughov . i the Sicilian affair it had been their earnest desire and endeavour to continue the connexion between

      Naples and Sicily ; and to retain the two crowns oa tho same head . With regard to the ret Ulfl 38 to tih ' O arms , he repeated he had ho objection to its produc tion . The ; transaction was simply what he describedjon a former evening , namely , that a contractor having applied to the ordnance , stating , that ? he had an order from the Sicilian government ,- , and that , to effect : the more apeedy completion of / the contract he desired . the return of a few iron gun « from the Ordnance which he had supplied someituna before , and which he would rep lace at the earlieafc moment , tho Ordnance—and not tho contractor , as

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), March 10, 1849, page 7, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns2_10031849/page/7/