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Leader (1850-1860), 17th April 1858, Edition 1 of 2, Page 363

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      ' - ^ ' . 3 t a recurrence of the evib , of which recantions nga . n 3 C hocau 3 e _ _ Inreplving to ^ " ^ ta ^ Si question , the Chancki . u . b of ¦ thk Benjamm H «"« l ' - inlv had no intention of EXTT / thfbU which he thought would be likely 36 vedby " ^ discussion on the resolutions and ^ ^ Slblv in the end become the law of the land . T ££ j £ I Supply was then agreed to .

      THE WAR ESTIMATES . On the proposition to go into Committee of Supply , Mr Wul ^ MS complained that the war estimates for jlT . wilw * r larger by millions than thC CUad ever co , e before the H « , use-7 , 257 , 00 W . SeShan P-InLd to the unrefonned House In 1 * 30 STs 000 , 000 / . more than under the Government of Srd Melbourne . He moved , by way of auie . id . ne . it , She estimates be referred to a select Committee — Sir John Paiuxgtox opposed the reference to a . select oomuuttee , and promised to explain the estimates m Sittee of the whole Housc-Thc House div . ded , Sm the amendment was defeated by 161 to 24 .-1 he House then went into committee of supply , Mr . Litzkov in the chair .

      THE NAVY lCSTIMAll-. M . Sh-John Pakington , in laying his statement before the House , said that , " on the first vote , ' number of men , wages of seamen and marines , ' the estimate was higher than of late years , or of last year ; but tho Government felt that their predecessors in office took a bold and wise course , and he could not propose any reduction . Twelve months ago , the vote was 33 , 000 seamen and marines , 2000 men for surveving purposes , and 5700 for the Coast Guard . At a late p ' eriod of the year , 2000 more seamen were added , so that , for the year 1857-8 , the total number was 42 , 700 . For 1858-9 , the late Government asked an increase of 2000 for officers and seamen to man our ships , and of 1000 for the coast-guard service . Of this number , however , 080 was merely a transfer from the civil service to the military . The total vote for the year , then , was 2 , 401 , 559 ? . When , some time since , he asked far a vote on account , he stated that there were somc-. thing like 1000 men on the books beyond the last vole ; at the present moment there are borne on the books 1621 more than the last year's vote ; and 13 IS men are required in addition . The present ; state of our force in East India and China is satisfactory . In 1856 ' , ' ^ consisted of 17 ships , with 332 guns , and manned by 3151 sailors : now there are 75 ships , with 953 guns , and 11 , 863 men . Several of the ships arc on their way home ; but there would still remain a force of GO ships , with 789 guns , and 10 , 300 men . A gre . it increase had also taken place in the force on the coast of Africa , fur the suppression of the slave trade . In 1 S 55 , we had there 20 ships , with 134 guns , and 1957 men ; now wo have 29 ships , with 215 guns , and 3363 . So that , including the six . ships now on their way home , we have now between 15 , 000 and 10 , 000 of our whole naval force in tho-: e two squadrons . But the state of things at home is far less satisfactory ; and Government are of opinion that it is far better to ask Parliament for aid in supplying the deficiency than to attempt to conceal a fact which must bo known to every Government in Europe . " We have the noblest ships that ever floated on the sea ; but many of them are not fully manned . "In accordance with the recommendations of tho Duke of Northumberland ' s committee , the ' continuous service ' system and tho ? nuval volunteers , ' or ' marine militia' system , had been adopted with tho very best effect ; and within a fortnight or a month at least , we could put to son twenty vessels to cruise in the Channel . But this could only be done in case of a national emergency ; and it was not creditable to the country that wo should not have tho means of sending a ship to sea except under ouch circumstances . Ilo was in hopes to bo able to meet the case by the extension of tho continuous service men . " Sir John l ' nkingtou then condemned tho conduct of tho Into Government in discharging 8000 of these men , under the pressure of tho cry of ' economy . ' The hnmodiulo result was , tho loss of 3000 most efficient hands ; and the moral effect was still worso , ns it induced men enlisted for ton years to believe that they could be discharged at any moment . The Government nro unanimously of opinion that England should aover be without a Channel squadron ; and ho hoped that , before tho summer is over , we shall have such a squadron , lie deprecated tho dismantling of our war Bhipa not n year ago ; but ho did not wish to oxompt himself from blumo on tho subject , as the course in question hud been taken by tho Government under pressure of tho IIoumg . The present Ministry is endeavouring to repair that orror , into which they would not i ' ull again . Ho thought thud ships should bo put into commission fur five inatoad of throe youra . Tho number of niuu and boys proposed to bu ^ voted-wns-& 9 j 818 . ~ -l-j 0 a 7-, U 67 / .-WouUl _ be ^ . iiVttl 5 « Ui » victualling tho navy , being an inuroaso of 105 , 159 / . on tho sum which was voted last year . "It was not tho intention of tho Government to " auk for n voto for more t'lan 10 , 800 men for dookyurdH , lining tho number asked laat your . This estimate would lio 50 , 000 / . below that propound by tho Into Government for tho present your ; but il " , at tho clone of tho summer , ho found that tl » o money was not sulUolunt , ho would ask for a further » um of 60 , 000 / . Ho nloo proposed to reduce tho vote of the Iftto Uovcrnmout for naval etoreu by 76 , 000 / .,

      which sum was made up of 15 , 000 / . for general stores , 10 , 000 for fitting ships bj- contract , and 5-, 000 / . for steam machinery . He should state upon t » , Ls subject that it was the intention of the Government to issue a small commission to investigate the conditijrt and care of steam machinery . The next vote to which he would refer was 694 , 618 / . for new work , which lie proposed to reduce by a number of small items , amounting in all to 108 , 756 / . The sum of 495 , 500 / . was asked by the late Government for the transport service , and this sum he proposed to reduce by 85 , 000 / ., 45 , 000 / ., for freight , and 4 O , OUO / . for fuel , consequent upon this reduction . He had been enabled to effect this reduction by a num . ber of hired ships having been paid off in China . The total difference between his estimates and the estimate of the late Government for 1858-9 , was 318 , 756 / ., and the total reduction , as compared , with the estimates for the year 1857-8 , was 613 , 84 . 3 / . "

      ? Sir Chakx . es Napikr condemned the reduction in the number of men lust year . —Sir Charles Wood could not agree with the " reductions indicated by Sir John Pakington , and the s : une view was taken by Mr . Dkummond , Mr . Uentixck , and Admiral Walcott . —Mr . Cokry vindicated the course takea by the Govejp » ment in their desire to reduce expenditure . —Sir Gkokge 1 ' echkll regretted the Government had not given them any information with regard to keeping up gunboats on the coast of Africa and the coast of Cuba . — Lord Claiucnce Paget advised the Government to pause in the construction of enormous ships . — -Lord 1 ' a . lmerston differed from this recommendation , and observed that our dockyards are inconveniently small , and that some of them shuuld . be reconstructed if the } ' are to hold the lineof-battle ships that are being built . Their machinery should be also enlarged ; for it is obviously useless to build large vessels if we have not the means of repairing them . —Sir Jons Klfhinstoxe considerei that the recently constructed gnu-boats were failures , and that the competitive system would not be beneficially applied to the navy , if made a preliminary to appointments . Sir John Pakisgtox having replied , Mr . Horssian said that the Government needed no apology for adhering to the estimates of the late Government ; on the contrary , he should not have objected if they had asked to increase them . It seemed , from all the statements made that evening , that , while calling ourselves the first of maritime nations , we are no longer masters of the sea . With respect to France , it appeared that , while she has forty ships of the line , we have forty-two ; but the ships of France are of greater force and of a much more convertible description than ours . They had all heard of the enormous works at Cherbourg and of the railway to tliat arsenal , which would be open in the course of the summer . The French have a line army and a naval conscription ; and with theso two arms they could , between Cherbourg and Toulon , man a licet and despatch an expedition in an exceedingly short period of time . Napoleon once said that with twenty-four hours' possession < . f the Channel he could conquer England ; and the first naval authorities arc ot opinion that an invasion of this country under such circumstances would be a very serious atl'air indeed . Mr . KiNN . viKJj thought that the vote on half-pay and retirement required revision , He believed that the principle adopted in France —that of retirement at a certain age— -was the best that could bo adopted . —Mr . Wiujaju observed that the expenditure now asked for was only 000 , 000 / . loss than that demanded by Lord Aberdeen . Ho believed that the present Government had been greatly misled by the extravagant estimates of their predecessors . The vote was then agreed to , as were also the iollowing : —1 , 401 , 559 / . for the wages of seamen and marines ; 577 , 357 / . lor depots for seamen and marines ; and 70 , 000 / . for the offices anil contingent expenses ot the Admiralty-ollU'c ; Tho Chairman then reported progress ; tho House resumed ; and tho Oaths ISm . l having been road a third time , and paused , amidst much cheering , and some routiuo business having boon despatched , the House adjourned at a quarter to ono o ' clock .

      Tuesday , April HQth . luiel uk . l . In the Housk of Lords , Lord Cami'ijkll moved tho second loading of this bill . Tho bill is founded on the recommendations of tho Committee to which , during last year , somo defects of tho prosout law had been referred . Tho measure consists only of throo clauses : ono relating to tho immunity from actions for libel to bo givon to tho publication of tho dobutoa of Parliament ; tho other two defining tho protection to bo extended to reports of ordinary public mooting * - At present , tha h \ v gives such a protection only to tho published procowlingrt of tho courts of jiutioo ; but thin Immunity tho ii ) ilt"irf ^ poWa ^ to 'iBx-toird : ^ Tiio ^ neaauro : r ( axplaiiiea , ]« . i Lordship ) will not in tho remotest dogroo affuot tho privllogoa of Parliament . Hut tho proprietors of newapnnora are « tlU liable to prosecution for publishing words spoken in Parliament if they aro libellous . Whan tho cmiua matter transpire * In a court of law , thy publirthera aro' not liable to any action for recording It , if done faithfully and without malice . Why should thuy not have an equal dogroo of Immunity for ronortinfi tho debates of tho Houses of LoglulatiouV The third cluuso

      I of the bill defines the public meetings to which his Lord-I ship wished to see the same principle applied . I Lord Lv . vmiUKST condemned the bill as inadequate . I The attempt in the third clause to define what shall be considered lawful meetings left many points undecided ; and he therefore recommended the omission of that clause altogether , so that the bill should apply to all meetings called for a lawful purpose . Commenting on the absurdity and injustice of the law as it at present stands , his Lordship said : — " A man attends a public meeting ,, and makes a speech , of a most malicious character . He sees the reporters taking down every word . He knows it will all be published—he makes it for the very purpose of having- it published ; and yet the law cannot take hold of him . ( Hear , / tear . ") The reporter , onthe other hand , is wholly intent upon taking down accu * - rately what he hears ; he has no opportunity or time fior consideration ; he sends away hia slips as fast a ^ he writes them ; and , if he revises the report , he do « 3 it in the utmost haste . He lias no malicious motive , and , indeed , he may not even knew the point upon which the calumny turns ; yet he is made the scapegoat . Nothing can be more unjust . { Cheers . ) The principle of the distinction between written and verbal slander obviously does not apply to reports . If a . man dictates the slander , and it is written down and published , then the person who dictates is liable . Now , it is quite true , that a person in making a speech does not give any express authority for its publication ; but everybody knows that his intention is that it shall be published . What is wanted is some machinery by which to supply this trifling link in the chain , and so to make the author of the calumny responsible for it . " Lord Wexsle y dale strongly objected to the bill , and moved that it be read a second time that day six months . —The Lord Chancellor thought that the proposer of the measure was bound to furnish some proof of real inconvenience caused by the existing state of the law . That had not been done , and therefore the bill ought not to pass the second reading . —Lord Ckanwokth contended that the inconvenience of the present law in certain cases had been distinctly proved . —Lord Cambell replied , and the House divided , when the bill was thrown out by 35 to 7 . Their Lordship 3 adjourned at nine o'clock . NEW CHKL 3 EA-BBIDGE . la the House of Commo . vs , Mr . Bkadt asked the Chief Commissioner of Works if he was aware that footpassengers entering on the Xew Chelsea-bridge are compelled to pass over whether they desire it or not , and then to pay a second toll to be allowed to return ; and , if so , did he propose taking any steps to remedy any inconvenience so unprecedented ?—Lord John Manners said , that the present arrangements relative to the New Chelseabridge were made with a view to meet the public convenience . ( Cries of " Ok , / " and law / liter . ) No less than 30 , 000 people passed over the bridge last Sunday ; and if they had been allowed to go half-way and turn back , great inconvenience would have resulted . Of course , if it were found that that did not suit the public , an alteration would be made . THIS MEDITERRANEAN TELEGRAPH . The Chancellor of this Exchequer stated that no arrangements had yet been concluded to effect the object of extending the Mediterranean system of telegraphs to Alexandria and for bringing India into telegraphic communication with this country ; but he hoped that in a veryshorttime arrangements embracing that objectwould take place . Ho added ( in answer to an inquiry by Mr . Wyld ) that arrangements were pending between the Austrian Government and the Government of her Majesty upon the subject , but that the giving of a monopoly to the Austrian Government did not form part of those arrangements . OUIt UEPttESENTATIVE AT TURIN . In reply to Mr . Wise , tho Chancellor or the KxciiEQUiiK said there was no intention to recal Sir James Hudson from Turin , but that Mr . Erskino , tho Secretary of Legation , had beeu recalled to this country to answer for his eouduct , aud had boon suspended . TUB SISTTLKMENTS IN THIS STRAITS OF MALACCA . Lord Jluitv cullod attention to the condition of the settlements in tho Straits of Malacca ( viz ., Penang , Singapore , and Malacca , ) , commonly called the Straits Settlements , and asked tho Chancellor of the Exchequer whether there would be uny objection on tho part ol Government to except tho Straits Settlements from tho iSKThl bill for placing the territories of the East India Company under tho control of Uie Crown , and to pace thorn in tho immediate charge of the Secretary ol State for the Colonies . Tho Indian Government uses These settlements aa oonvlct stotwns , and tho respectable " . habitant ., complain of being obliged to receive all tho scum of Madras , Uou ul , and JJombay , as we 1 as to pay tho expenses of tho oonvlet establishments and to mtTftary TofcoS : —lirnddition ~ fco-tfie-quofltloa _ wjA | flh , ^ o _ bad put upon the paper , ho should conclude by making a motion fur tho production of any corrospondouco that had panned between her Majost / fl Government and the East India Company upon the subject of the hottlo . uonts in the Strait * of Malacca . —Mr . Bau . uk said It waa impossible for her Mujoaty ' s Government to deal with the . subject without drat communicating with tho feast India Company ; luusiuucU as the Bettlomcats referred to lorin

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      » a- * ai . Apbh . 17 , 1858 . J . . ' T HE ^ UJE g 30 *

  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), April 17, 1858, page 363, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct2239/page/3/