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    it was impossible lie could mean anything offensive because it was said with a smiling face , I hope he will excuse me for reminding him of another quotation , which appears to me to be at least as applicable as that which he used— "A man may smile and smile , and be a villain . " ( Confusion , and cries of " Oh ! " ) I am at a loss to know to whom this can be offensive—who says " Oh ?" The Earl of CtABKWDOir , advancing to the table , and exclaiming , with vehemence , " It was to me !—it was to me !" We have a right to feel offended by that expression . ( Cheers . ) We are not accustomed , my lords , to hear such expressions in this House—( renewed cheers . ) Never in this House , not even in the language of poetry , are we accustomed to hear such a word as " villain "—( "hear , hear , " and confusion . )

    The Earl of Derby : I must say , that the warmth of the noble Earl was quite uncalled for , and the manner in which he gave expression to it unbecoming the position which he at present holds . ( "Oh ! " and renewed confusion . ) He must have heard me say , before I used the expression alluded to , that I was making a quotation in which I was quite certain that the right reverend prelate would feel I was not applying to him the expression it contained , and that I meant no personal application of the words , any more than I believe , after the explanation he has given , that he had intended anything personally offensive to me . It is bootless to vent indignation when none is needed . I can assure him I had not the slightest intention of doing so , and I cannot think the feeling of the House at all joins in the somewhat singular demonstration of wasted wrath he has made .

    Strangers were then ordered to withdraw , and the House divided . The numbers were : —

    Content ( for the amendment ) ... 78 Non-Content ( against it ) . . . . 117 Majority for the Government . . —39 The amendment having thus been lost , the clause was agreed to , as were the remaining clauses , and the House immediately afterwards adjourned , at a quarter before one o ' clock . Of course , further opposition was hopeless . On the motion for the third reading of the Canada Clergy Reserves Bill , on Thursday , the Duke of Newcastle , in reply to questions from the Earl of

    Wicklow and Lord Redesdale , explained that the guarantee would have the same effect as before the passing of the present bill , should the fund fall below the specified amount , the clergy reserves remaining on . the same footing under any circumstances , with this exception , that the authority over them would be given to the Canadian legislature . According to the law officers of the Crown , if the reserves were secularized , the guarantee would fall with the condition on which it rested , and this country would not , in that event , be answerable , as had been anticipated . The bill was then read a third time .

    The other defeat of the Derbyites—not quite so utter , but still sufficiently stinging—was on

    IltlSH NATIONAL EDUCATION . Mr . Hamilton moved for a select committee to inquire into the working of the national system of education in Ireland , with a view of ascertaining how far the instructions in Mr . Stanley ' s letter of 1830 had been followed or departed from by the Commissioners , or in the practical operation of the system , and whether and to what extent a united or combined education had been attained ; and also to inquire whether , by any further extension of the Commissioners' rules , or otherwise , the conscientious objections of many of the Irish people to the present system could be removed , so as to

    render it more extensive and national . In a long speech , supported by statistics , he urged that an issue of fact existed between the partien interested , as to whether the existing system were—first , united ; secondly , scriptural ; and thirdly , neutral , which latter ho contended it was not , but Roman-catholic ; adding , that the model schools were not models , and that the reports were unsatisfactory . He said , that ho had brought forward the motion in no hostile spirit , but it was time the unlmppy controversy should cease , and he thought that the committee might devise some mode of settlement , for which thero was a strong wish in Ireland . Hut he could not conclude without a bitter

    uttnek on Ijord Aberdeen—The Earl of Aberdeen was reported to have stated " elsowhero" that ho could scarcel y repress the indignation ho felt at seeing tho most hopeful effort thut hud boon made for many years to irnprovo tho permanent condition of the poopio of Iroland thwarted . It might be that thut noble Earl was not in a position now to render tho acknowledgment ho otherwise might to men who , amid grout difficulties and inducements to act othorwiao , hud adhered to opinionB conscientiously entertained . It

    might bo that that noblo Karl would be glad to boo extended to matters pf a religious charactor , as well as to political matters , tho kind of indifforentism ( crios of "Oh , oh !") which characterized that which bore the designation of . Radical Conservatism and Conservative ltadiculium . ( "Oh , oh ! " ) Hut tho noble Earl would find that tho people of Ireland would not take his viow upon that subject . That poopio , Itoman-catholics ns woll as 1 ' rotentantH , wero us deeply affected by religious considerations as any poopio upon tho face of tho oarth . Mr . Wjcwam seconded tho motion .

    Sir John Young- asserted the promptness with which Lord Aberdeen paid respect to the religious opinions of others , and said that he himself approached this subject in no spirit of indifferentism . The main and only object of the promoters of this motion was the subversion of the national system . There was nothing , ho said , in the original instructions to make scriptural extracts part of the secular system of education in the national schools . If any complaint were made against any individual school , or any number of schools , it should occasion the most rigid inquiry . The system was opposed by the majority of the clergy of the Established Church , and by a diminishing number of the gentry belonging to it ; and he would speak of

    their scruples with all respect , but could not admit that they made a claim for toleration , but rather the reverse . The Roman Catholics had a conscientious objection to the use of the Scriptures , without note or comment , by young persons . The people of Ireland were exceedingly alive to the advantages of education , and would make any sacrifice to give it to their children . He enlarged upon the various influences under which the poor Irish might he induced to send their children to schools of which they disapproved , and be argued that the Protestant who demanded the light of private judgment should be ready to give it to others . He sketched the working of the system , which had been twenty-one years in existence . He said that out of the immense numbers of children that had attended the

    schools not one proved case of proselytism had taken place , and from statistics he sought to show that the Roman Catholics had not had an undue share of advantages . In generally answering the arguments on the other side , Sir J . Young said that it would be most advantageous if more money were laid out upon these schools ; and he bore a high tribute to their excellent teachers , and especially commended the school-books , which had become a national literature , and from one of which he read an extract which he described as imbued with morality and true religious feeling . He dwelt feelingly upon the admirable results of the schools , which had attained their main object ; and he expressed an earnest hope that the House would persevere in upholding a system which tended to elevate the whole of the humbler portion of the Irish nation .

    Mr . Napiee reiterated that the Protestants were excluded from the advantage of these schools , and he complained that the principle for which they contended in vain was conceded to every relig ious denomination in England . Lord Monck admitted the conscientiousness , but denied the rationality of the objections to the national system . Mr . Lucas said that Government had two opinions on education—one for England and one for Ireland ; the former of which he considered sound , the other the reverse . The Irish system was one thing in name and another in fact , and he denied that it produced any real amalgamation . He should be prepared to support a measure for the establishment

    of separate systems of education for different Churches . Ho agreed in a great deal that had been said by the supporters of this motion , but ho had great difficulty in voting for it , because he was unablo to satisfy himself that the objects which they had in view were in accordance with the spirit and terms of tho motion itself . If he thought they were , ho should havo no difficulty in voting for it . Ho confessed that what before had been a eortainty with him , had that evening , owing to the tompcrato tone which had been adopted , been converted into a doubt , and bo should like to have that doubt converted into n certainty the other way by obtaining a categorical answer from the hon . mover of this resolution as to what his intentions

    really were . Ay or no , did he wish to have tho funds distributed in a iair proportion among the different sects according to their numbers P In the debates of 1848 arid 1849 , tho hon . gontleman and tho right hon . gentleman tho member for Midhurst , and others , clearly enough stated that they wished to haves the grunts mado to tho Church Education Society . Did they now want to establish , not a scpamto system , but a " united Scriptural education , " in which wore to bo brought together 12 () , ( XK ) children under the tuition of tho bishops and clergy of tho established church , 4 i , < KX > of those children being Roman

    Catholics ? If that woro the system which they wished to establish by means of a public grant , then he hui < 1 avow it at once ; let there bo no mistake tliut it wiw the old system of the Kildaro-ntreet Schools which they wished to promote , and in that caHc they would receive from him and thoso who thought with him the strongest and bitterest opposition . ( Ifear . ) If those schools were OHtublinhed on the basis laid down in thoso speeches , then they came to tl , ; H that grunts wero wanted to establish schools into which the children of Catholics -wore to bo allowed lor purposes of pronely tism . If such were their intention , let it bo avowed plainly to tho House .

    Lord Naah gave a cordial support to tho motion , on the ground that tho time hud coiao when inquiry ought to bo made bow fur the objects of tho foundurH of the HyHtoin hud l > e < sn carried out . Ho denied that at present it could fairly be called a combined system of education . Sir jAMKfl Gbaitam , in resisting tho motion , stated hw inability to consider it oh anything but an attack uuou tho national system , which , ho contoudou , and was

    prepared to prove , had met with as much success as could have been anticipated by its ori ginators . He asserted , in answer to the promoters of the motion , that the national system was one of mixed education ; and argued at some length that the difficulties which embarrassed the schools were mixed up with political bitterness— , , . ¦ " The object of the present motion is to establish a system with separate grants ; and what will bo the consequence ? The claim of the Eoman-catholics will then be irresistible . Your grants must then bear reference to the respective numbers of the different sects , and the Roman-catholics being by far the most numerous , the largest proportion of the grants must be given to them ,

    and much the smallest portion to the church of England . The name of religious discord would then indeed be spread throughout the country , a proselytizing spirit would be added to the evils and sorrows of that country ; and , instead of a scheme of peace and concord , you will have a great aggravation of all the ills and misfortunes which now afflict Ireland . Something has been said by the hon . member for Dublin University , about the opinion of Dr . Chalmers with respect to mixed education . Now , i 3 it true that Dr . Chalmers thought that secular education , without religious teaching , is incompatible with the good of a community ? I have here the opinion of Dr . Chalmers , which was recorded within a short period of his lamented death . Dr . Chalmers ' s biographer says : —

    " ' During the last few months of his life , the subject of national education was mnch upon his mind . The following was written about a week before his death , and comes to us sealed with the impressive character of being the last formal expression of his truly enlightened judgment on any great public question . Dr . Chalmers says on this subject , ' I would suffer parents to select what part of education they wanted for their children , and would not force arithmetic upon them , if all they wanted was writing and reading ; and as little would I force any part of religious instruction that was given in the school , if all they wanted was secular education . '' " But I have a higher authority than even that of Dr . Chalmers . I have here the opinion of Archbishop Usher on this very point . Archbishop Usher , referring to the state of Ireland in his day , says : —

    " ' The danger of this ignorance being , by the confession of the most judicious divines on both sides , acknowledged to be so great , the woful state of the poor country wherein I live is much to be lamented , where the people generally are suffered to perish for want of knowledge—the vulgar superstitions of popery not doing them half that hurt that the ignorance of those common principles of the faith doth , which all true Christians are bound to learn . The consideration whereof hath sometimes drawn me to treat ¦ with those of the opposite party , and to move them that , howsoever in other things we did differ one from another , jet we should join together in teaching those main points , the knowledge whereof was so necessary unto salvation , and of the truth whereof there was no controversy betwixt us . '

    " And I am satisfied that if Archbishop Usher were now alive , he , the Primate , would be the natron of the national school in the city of Armagh . That is my firm conviction . Amid all these symptoms of religious difference , it is impossible to conceal from ourselves that there lurks a degree of political bitterness . Something has been said of tho examination of witnesses before the select committee of 1837 . I was a member of that committee . Hero aro answers to the questions 7087 and 7688 , with referenco to the alleged denial of tho use of the Bible : —

    " ' As soon as the system was announced , meetings wero got up in almost every town in Ulster . The great meeting of Kathfriland , at which Lord lloden presided , wiis tho first . The people wero led to believe that the Government were about to send round the police to take possession of their Bibles . To this meeting they carried their Bibles , and flourished them over their beads , expressing tlieir determination to die in defenco of thorn . After this meeting , gun-clubs wero established , for tho purpose of furnishing tho peasantry with guns to protect their Bibles . '

    " A pamphlet has been published upon tho system of the Church Education Society , by the Jtev . Mr . Trench , anil a most able one it is . I think I can show , from a fact mentioned by Mr . Trench , that there lurks , under the semblance of religious differences , a bitter churaeter of political animosity . In one town in Ireland , in which there is a National school and a Church Education school , Mr . Trench says , — " ' In company with the landlord of tho town , I visited , first , the National school , and afterwards the Church Education school . In tho National school , wo found the Scripture ex true Id were read . On our entering the Church Education school , the landlord , not . being well acquainted with the principles of the Church Education school , asked tho muster whether tho Scripture extracts wero read in his school ? Hin reply was , ' Oh , no , Sir ; wo ureall Tories bore !"' . .. .

    "I say that this House will act most unwisely if they consent to this inquiry , invited as they are , with an intention which honourable gentlemen opposite have hardly ditiHomblod to avow this evening , to overthrow a system wliich has existed for twenty-two years , and whieli has , in my opinion , wrought inlinito good iu Ireland . And is thin good stationary P The population of Iroland has been ( lifninisbed by nearly 2 , <) 0 O , ()<) O . Do the- _ number * of tho children attending theses schools diminish in tho sumo proportion P On the contrary , tho numbers of the children attending the schools havo progressed and increased during all the period of Ireland's greatest misfortune ; and last ye « r , when , tbo emigration was the greatest , tho number of children' in these schools wan lurgor than was over before known—exceeding , as it did , 620 , ( XX ) . I liopo that Parliament will not , at the moment when its success is tho grentcut and moat promising—when Lord Derby , tho

    Untitled Article

    April 30 , 1853 . ] THE LEA PER . 411

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), April 30, 1853, page 411, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1984/page/3/