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    Lord Brougham : urged similar objections , pointing nut very stronglyhow little security there would be « nder this bill for the safety of political offenders . On the other hand / the Lobd Chancellob seemed to he of opinion that , because provision for greater security than was comprised in a mere accusation would make the convention a dead letter , therefore their lordships ought to agree to the monstrous provision . " Great care had been taken , both in the convention and in . this act , as regard * political offenders . We could not of /> n in . he apprehended , between the French Government

    and their ownsubjects . We could prevent a Frenchman under our care and . authority from bemgimproperly carried to France to be tried ; but if he once went to France he apprehended that we could not do more than had already been done by treaty— -viz ., make a solemn stipulation with the French Government that he should not be tried for a political offence committed prior to his surrender—or that , if he should be tried for a political offence , he should be at liberty to plead his surrender by us as a discharge from the offence imputed to him . Lord Bbottgham . —Gr that he should be sent back again The IiOBD ChawceIiIiOB , —Yes ; that was a valuable

    suggestion . He did not think that the French Government could be called on to pass a law for giving effect to the stipulation . He agreed that the retrospective clauses went too far back . Lord CampbeM . said , it was a novelty to make the warrant , or the word , of the accusing party conclusive with respect to the party accused . Hitherto it had been an invariable rule that reasonable evidence should be given to the Government , called upon to surrender a man , that the crime had been really committed by Mm .

    "It was now for the first time proposed to make the mere assertion of the Government that claimed the alleged criminal , conclusive evidence of his guilt , and a sufficient warrant for our delivering him up to be tried in bis own country . Ifow , it struck him as an extraordinary thing that no reciprocity in this respect had been proposed . To say that the mere warrant of the party making the demand should be held to be conclusive evidence of the guilt of the accused would necessarily lead to abuse and oppression ; and if this bill passed , the result would be that we should be bound to deliver up to the French Government any

    Frenchman m our dominions whose presence was wanted in France by that Government for any purpose whatever . " The Earl of MjlLMEBBUBY said there was a discretionary power given to the magistrate . lord Campbbi . Ii denied that the magistrate would have any discretionary power . All he would have to jdo was to ascertain the identity of the individual , and , having ascertained that , he was bound immediately to order the individual to be delivered up to the French government . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , this was a very dangerous mode of proceeding , and very liable to be abused .

    Here the Lobd Changeixob thought it necessary to enter into explanations in reply to Lord Campbell ' s pertinent remark that there was no reciprocity . He said that although the terms of the law were not the same in reference to both countries , yet it was understood that there should be complete reciprocity between them . The Duke of AbgylIi showed that we were called upon by our Ministers to trust to the good faith of the French Government in carrying out the terms of the convention , as respected political offenders .

    "With every possible respect for the French Government , they must all feel that , under present circumstances , it was impossible to feel that any act of the French Legislature could give a guarantee equal to that which an act of the Britis h Parliament would give . There wore so many and suc h rapid political changes in that country that , althou gh a law might bo passed at p resent by a largo working majority , thoro mighfc soon bo an effectual majority in favour of a different principle . " Lord Cranwobth said , the treaty contained " stipulations and promises which were absolutely inadmissible »

    Lord Maimesbtjby , whoso advocacy of tho bill was characterized by an artful simplicity , admitted that the question of proof before committal was tho point of difficulty . . " . But , " said ho , "it had struck tho Government that by giving discretion to tho magistrate upon sufficient proof , tho ugh not direct proof , to order a remand for a month , Much did not exist under the old convention , time would wms bo afforded for an investigation of tho caso . " If it wore not agreed to , the convention would bo a < loiul letter .

    To show tho different viow which was entertained m franco with roforonco to the clauses in this bill , ho might Biato that ho had had gomo difliculty in arranging tho e auBo which related to political offenders ; not because « w Fronoh Qovornmont—for ho boliovod them to bo porlocuy sincere—wished to obtain tho eurrohdor of their o « e « uora by moans of any trick , but because it was posmwo that many of them remaining horo , under a cunfff ? o high treason , porhaps , might purge themselves of that } IJh crime by gettingV friend over tho water to charge U ° m with Bomo small offonco cognisable under tho con-J «« tion , for which they might bo prosecuted . Tho French "ovornmont , had they been doHirouH to interpose difh-2 Si % *? fSht vory wo » have pressed that point , and havo i . « » fc had in it tho gormB of too unrestrained a Ubort y ; booaueo , undor tho convention , tho offondor would 1 \ .

    only have to be accused of some minor offence , which would occasion him . to be taken to France , and he would be exempted for ever from all accusations standing against him for more serious crimes , committed , it mierht be . during the revolution . " Obviously the feeling of the House was against the biu , and its supporters appealed to the law lords , begging them to let it be read a second time , and amend it in Committee . But * said Lord Campbeli ,, and the

    Lobd Changeedob concurred , if we alter the bill we do not give effect to the convention . You will want a new convention . Earl Gbey struck in with a compromise . The convention , said he , is not to take effect until a day to be named with the consent of both parties . Of course they could abstain from naming a day until the terms were finally settled . He could not , at all events , agree to the passing of the bill in its present shape .

    Other remarks were made ; Lord Maimesbuby , growing more courteous and supplicatory , adopted a tone of disinterested frankness , and declared that his only object was to get the best convention he could for the country . If the House would let him know what powers he should possess , and on what grounds he could propose a new convention , it would then be for France to accept it or not , as she pleased . And he carried his point so far as to get the bill read a second time .

    CASE OP THE REVEBEND ME . BENNETT . Mr . Hobsman made his long promised motion / for " a select committee to inquire into the circumstances connected with the institution of the Reverend Mr . Bennett to the vicarage of Frome , " on Tuesday . In his method of treating the case , Mr . Horsman reverted to the discussion of the 20 th of April , which we reported in the Leader of the 24 th of that month , and gave an aecount of that debate , into which we need not enter . Having described the principal speeches on that occasion , he , while professing to disregard the question of Mr . Bennett ' s alleged delinquencies at Kissingen , endeavoured still to show that there were grounds for believing

    that Mr . Bennett had acted there in a way inconsistent with his character as a member of the Church of England , especially by never attending the Protestant church there , while he frequently attended Eoman Catholic mass ; and by carrying about with him , as is customary with Roman Catholic priests , a small stone altar , before which he and his party ^ worshipped . In support of these allegations he noticed the expression of Mr . Bennett when he resigned the curacy of St . Paul ' s , Knightsbridge , " that the end must be , ere long , that he must give up the conflict , and seek peace elsewhere ; " expressions which , Mr . Horsman contended , could mean only that Mr . Bennett intended to seek peace at Some . He , further , read letters from a

    clergyman at Trowbridge , politely requesting Mr . Bennett to contradict the statements as to his Kissingen conduct , to which letters Mr . Bennett returned no reply ; a fact which could lead to only one . conclusion , that a contradiction was impossible . Mr . Horsman then set about stating what in reality was the substance of his speech—tho conduct of the Bishop of Bath and Wells . He contended that the bishop had instituted Mr . Bennett with indecent haste , without due examination into his relig ious belief ; and without giving the parishioners of Frome an opportunity of legally opposing that institution . Ho stated their case at great length , but it amounted to this : that Mr . Bennott ' s appointment to the vicarage was known on tho 30 th of December 1851 ; that on the 7 th of January certain clergymen and

    parishioners memorialised the bishop for delay ; that they in the meantime learned that tho legal mode of opposing tho institution of Mr . Bennett was by entering a caveat at Wells , and that on tho day , the 24 th of January , when tho caveat was prepared , Mr . Bennett was already instituted . Tho next part of tho caso related to tho certificate of Mr . Bennett , from his former diocesan tho Bishop of London . Horo Mr . Horsman alleged that that document signed by threo clorgymon and countersigned by tho Bishop of London , was also accompanied by a letter from the Bishop , warning his colleague of Bath and Wells that Mr . Bennett had resigned tho curacy of St . Paul ' s , Knig htsbridgo , because ha tho bishop , was of opinion that " tho poaco and good

    order of tho church" would bo interrupted by his remaining . That ho considered acquitted tho Bishop of London " of being a party in any manner to mislead or deceive tho Bishop of B ath and Wells" ( loud cheers . ) Tho cortificato rocoived by tho latter was not tho ono required by law . He thought likewise that tho Bishop of Bath and Wells had not duly examined Mr . Bennett touching somo extraordinary opinions entertained by him , among winch was this , that * all ideas of tho Biblo and of tho dissemination of Christianity by moans of tho Biblo woro positive fiotiona and absurdities . " Ho urged that tho accused prolate had not oxaminod Mr . Bennett touching his a < - TmsMinn of tlio supremacy of tho Crown—a doctrine , which tlio

    it was edloged , ho hold in a " non-natural" sense . Aa parishioners of Fromo had no remedy , ho insisted that at least tho Houso nhould inquiro into tho oircumstancos . Tho Houso was tho proper tribunal . Thoy woro rcpoatodly told thoy should take no cognisance of tho Church bocauHo tho JIouho of Commons was not composed of momborB of tho Eatabliflhedll Church . Why was Parliament not composod of mombors of tho Established Church P because- tho people whom it represented woro not composed ot momborB of tho Established Church ; and if thoy said that thoy , tho representatives of tho people , woro ho dissovor od from tho iCatabliahod Church that they could not take notice of tho E stablished Church , then a fortiori tho nation was so dissevered from tho Established Church , that thoro should b o no EetabUeUod Church at nil . ( Ifoar , hoar . ) Ho hold that

    the Church as established by law was the creation of Pafliament , and that Parliament could not undertake a more weighty responsibility than to allow the ministers of that faith to become the secret agents of another . ( Hear . ) He terminated his very long speech by throwing tho responsibility of the whole matter on Government . " The question , either as affecting the sincerity of thenfaith , the supremacy of the Crown , or the jurisdiction of Parliament , involved most serious considerations , and he thought it would be fatal in the event of a majority deciding agaiiist his motion , for it would only show how

    fatal was a majority when opposed to truth . ( Hear , hear . ) A majority of that House could not influence public opinion ; it could not acquit Mr . Bennett , for public opinion would not acquit him ; nor would it acquit the Bishop of Bath and Wells , for his acts convicted him ; but this a majority might do—public reprobation might be diverted from otherparties , and the finger of scorn would be pointed at the House of Commons , while it would be said that their Protestantism-was a pretence — that their loyalty was a sham—and that in endeavouring to screen individual delinquency they permitted a public wrong to degrade themselves and to destroy the Church . "

    Mr . Gladstone , after waiting first to see if any member of the Government would rise , and , secondly , until Mr . O'Connor was disposed of , replied at great length : — He complained that Mr . Horsman had not confined himself to the legal question , but that he had allowed the warmth of his feelings to mix themselves up with the facts ) of the case . Then he replied to the concluding portion of his speeeh , where Mr . Horsman told the House that they must adopt his motion , or that their Protestantism was a pretence , and their loyalty a sham . " Now , sir , " continued Mr . Gladstone , it appears to me that this issue is too strong ( hear , hear)—it appears to me that we should exercise a discretion—that we have a right to test whether

    the honourable gentleman has adhered to his own doctrines —to see that he has not overturned one portion of his speech by another , and that we are entitled to say ' yes * or ' no' on this question , regardless of the threat , that if we say ' no' our ' Protestantism is a pretence , and our loyalty a sham . ' ( Cheers . )" He took Mr * Horsman to task rather severely for his denunciations of the whole bench of bishops , and pointed out how it was nothing new to find Mr . Horsman in the character of " public- accuser . " He then proceeded : — " This is the dilemma which the honourable gentleman has put to the House . Either this House is fit lor debates like the present , or else you ought not to have an Established Church at all . I am in fear and trembling to

    differ with the honourable gentleman , but it does appear to me just possible that " we ought to have an Established Church , and yet that this House is not the fitting arena for discussions like the present . ( Cheers . ) Sir , I do not scruple to say that this House is not a fitting arena for these discussions . ( Hear , hear . ) I do not say that it is possible to avoid them . I admit that there is much provocation—that there have been many imprudencies—that blame has been found justly , and I will admit that tho Church of England is rent and torn with her dissensions ; but I put it to the House , and I ask , 7 > o you think that religious divisions are likely to be mitigated ? Do you think that the sores and wounds of the Church of England

    are likely to be healed by rhetorical declamation , by tho misrepresentation of occurrences , and the misstatcment of facts . ( Cheers . )" And he laid it down as a rule that if tho country was to bo governed in tho ecclesiastical or civil matters by tho private opinions of popular men in opposition to a fixed system of law , then " representative institutions would become littlo better than a nuisance , and ecclesiastical discussions would become tho bane and pestilence of tho House . " They had to decide one of two questions : have tho laws been obeyed , and are tho laws good ? If they were good , obey them : if not good , alter them . But thoy had no right to correct tho law by an extra legal system . Mr . Gladstone proceeded to state , citing evidence to

    that effect , that tho people of Fromo woro satisfied with Mr . Bonnott 5 to arguo that Mr . Bonnott was not properly before tho Houso ; to assort that , being chaplain to a private family , Mr . Bennett was not bound to attond tho English church at Kissingon ; and to state that ho did not bohovo tho story of tho littlo stone altar . From this point Mr . Gladstone proceeded to defend tho Bishop of Bath and Wells . Tho accusations against tho Bishop of Bath and Wolls resolve thomsolvos into three distinct chargos . First of all , undue haste , that haste not boing needed ^ but being founded on a sot and corrupt purpose to prevent tho panshionors from having a fair opportunity of objecting to his appointment . Tho second charge

    was that ho presented Mr . Bonnott without requiring tho proper certificate from his former bishop ; and tho third charge was that he prosontod him without a duo examination into his doctrine and teaching . ( Hear . ) Now it appears to mo that each and ovory ono of theso chargos ia without tlio slightest shadow of a foundation . " In proof of hia assertion , Mr . Gladstone showed , with regard to tho first accusation , that tlio Bishop wuu bound to mstituto a clerk undor BoriouB penalties ; that tho parishionors of Fromo might have entered a caveat

    four-andtwonty hours after thoy hoard of tho intontion to present Mr . Bonnott , which proceeding would havo furnished tho Bishop with solid ground for delaying institution ; but that , instead of doing this , thoy sought advico twonty-fiva days after thoy ought to havo sought it , that is , when Mr . Bennett wob on tho point of being instituted , As to tho accusation of an informality in tlio cortificato , Mr . Gladstono disposed of that by showing that all tho law required , and tlio Bishop could demand , was a cortificato signed according to custom , and countersigned by the Bishop of London . Tho noto appended by the latter was of no legal effect . Tho courts would not recognise it , and tho signature , in point of law , romained tho same whatever was appended to it . But ho scorned to admit that the ex-

    Untitled Article

    Jpne 12 , 1852 . ] THE LEADER . 551

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), June 12, 1852, page 551, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1939/page/3/