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Leader (1850-1860), 1st May 1858, Edition 1 of 2, Page 413

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    • No, 423, May 1, 1858.] Til E LEADER. 413

      No, 423, May 1, 1858.] Til E LEADER. 413

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      Isfonday, April 26th. Government Op Indi...

      petuate it . —Mr . Lygon considered the abolition of church-rates a simple though dangerous expedient , and thought that means might be devised to exempt persons who have conscientious scruples . —Sir G . C . Lkwis entirely dissented from the plan of Mr . Puller , because he proposed a general , new , and compulsory charge upon the real property of the country for the purposes of the Church , whereas tlie present rate is a parochial rate , imposed by the vestry ; and he would impose the tax in all those parishes where church-rates had been _ practically abolished . He objected to Mr . liuxton ' s amendment upon similar grounds ; that would also impose a new general charge upon real property . —Mr . Newdegate supported Mr . Puller's motion . — Lord Joiis Russell

      could , not understand how we could have a national church establishment , with a provision for the minister , and no provision to support the fabric of the church . He must , therefore , vote against the simple abolition of the rates . ( Jtear , hear ); but lie was ready to consider any fair proposition for the settlement of the question . —Mr . "Walpole concurred that the abolition of church-rates without an equivalent would be putting money into the pockets of landlords to which they are not entitled ; but he considered that , with regard to the specific motion before the House , the arguments of Sir G- ' C Lewis were unanswerable . '—Mr .. Roebuck spoke in favour of the entire abolition of church-rates . —Mr . Wioram- supported the motion , and Mr . Buxtos withdrew his amendment . M > . Puller then briefly replied , expressing his willingness to withdraw his motion . —Several members , however , objected to this course , and a division was accordingly taken . The numbers were—For the motion ..... 54 Against .. 317 Majority 263 Mr . Ayrton moved the adjournment of the House , with a view to preventing the introduction of Mr . LygOn ' s bill on the subject of church-rates without discussion . —The Chancellor of tub Exchequer and Sir Gr . C . Lewis appealed to the hon . member to withdraw his motion , which—having obtained an assurance from Mr . Lygon that he would not bring the bill for ward that night—Mr . Ayhtox consented to . The motion was accordingly withdrawn , and Mr ; IjYGOU postponed his measure to the following day . COLOXKL LEWIS A . ND JO 1 XS BYRNE . Mr . Peteh O'Brien moved for copies of the civil bill ejectment tried before James Major , Esq ., Q . C ., assistant barrister for the county of Monaghan , at Castleblaney , at the last January Quarter Sessions , wherein Colonel Lewis was plaintiff and John Byrne was defendant ; and , of the entry in the book of the clerk of the peace in relation to said ejectment , containing the names of the witnesses examined on behalf of the plaintiff and of the defendant . Of the facts of this case our readers are already in possession . —After some discussion , in which Lord Naas said he thought the motion would end in nothing beneficial , the motion was withdrawn . The House adjourned about one o ' clock . Wednesday , Ajn-il 23 th . AG 1 UCULTURAL STATISTICS BILL . Mr . Caird moved tlie second reading of this bill . Within the last fifty years , thc * population had doubled ; but the area of the country could not increase , and , so far as they could learn the fiiet from the ICnclosure Commissioners , the extent of waste land added during the last ten years to the arable land of the country , did not exceed 30 , 000 acres . The producers , consumers , and merchants are injured by the ignorance that prevails in

      reference to agricultural statistics . The returns show that in the year 18-16 the small farmers were losers in three months , through want of knowledge of the true produce of the harvest , to the extent of one million and a half per month . Mr . Caird proposed that the acreage returns . should be made to the Board of Trade , and that n department of that board should arrange the machinery for carrying out the details . Some farmers might refuse to give the information required ; but the relieving officer might he employed to obtain it .

      Mr . Packe moved to defer the second rending for six months . The farmers object to the measure , which they consider inquisitorial and compulsory . —Mr . Ducaxic seconded the amendment . —Sir G . C . Licvvis did not believe that these statistics would be of the smallest practical value . What would be the probable expense of collecting them in England ? lie doubted if they would be worth the cost . The fifth clause appeared to him compulsory , and he believed that neglect to fill up tlie papers or to mgn them would ho an indictable ottence . —Mr . L ) iujmmoni > remarked that the bill was intended to obtain

      information as to the quantities of grain grown every-year ; but it is impossible for a fanner to give a true estimate . Tlie measure was only a menus to an end , and it ended with the means . —The bill waa supported by Mr . Tuknkr , Mr . W . S . Lini > hav , Mr , Hasn , Mr . Caui >\ vi : ll , ami Mr . Mi Lies ; and was opposed by Mr . Hkntinok , Mr . Kku Skymkk , Mr . Stanuoit ., Sir John * mkllky , Mr . Wiiu'knidk , Mr . Ki >\ vaui > Hall , and 31 r . IIknlky . Tho last-named gentleman , speaking on hcluilf of tho Government , said that , as to ( lie compulsory collection ol statistics , he apprehended some difficulty , and he tea rod that amnc of the young fanners might tiiko the inspector

      hy the scruff of the neck and eject him from the land . ( Laughter . ") The returns , he feared , would not be got in for three or four months , and then the information would be out of time , even if it were perfect , which it would

      not be . He would advise the hon . gentleman to withdraw the bill , and not divide the House upon it . Mr . Cairo having replied , and suggested that any objectionable clauses might be remedied in committee , the House divided , when the second reading was lost by 241 to 135 . The Customs Duties ( No . 2 ) Bill was read a third time , and passed . STADE DUES . Mr . Henley moved for a select committee to inquire into tlie origin of the claim of the Government of Hanover to levy the Stade tolls ; to consider in what degree they are detrimental to the commerce of the United Kingdom ; and the effect of giving notice to determine the treaty under which this country has assented to the payment of such tolls for a limited period . — Agreed to .

      NEW WRIT . On the motion of Sir William Jolt ^ iffe , a new writ was ordered to issue for the election of a member for the county of Leitrim , in the room of Mr . Montgomery , who has accepted the office of Steward of the Manor of Hempholme . The House adjourned at ten minutes to six o ' clock .

      Thursday , April 29 th . AKTNEXA . TIOX IN INDIA . In the House of Lords , the Earl of Albemarle presented a petition from 12 , 000 of the inhabitants of Manchester and Salford , praying for the restitution of the King of Oude to the throne of that country . In so doing , the Earl expressed his dissent from the object of the petition . To restore Oude would shake British rule in India to its foundations . Still , he entirely disagreed with the policy which led to the annexation of the state alluded to . He felt the utmost abhorrence of the wholesale system of annexing , or . rather of confiscating , the dominions of the native princes in India . When a responsible Indian Minister would be appointed , he did net pretend to say . He had read the different measures proposed in the other House , and he did not think that any of them would answer the end in view . He begged to give notice that on Monday , the 10 th of May , he would move the following resolution : — " That it is the opinion of this House that the principle of annexing native states in India , for supposed default of heirs natural , or under pretence of malrgovernment on the part of native princes , is a flagrant violation of international law , opposed to the feelings of the people of India , derogatory to the Christian character , and dangerous to the stability of British rule ; that this House , therefore , pledges itself henceforward to abandon such policy . " DESPATCHES FOR INCI > IA . Earl Granville asked , in reference to the despatch recommending clemency and discrimination in the punishment of the Indian mutineers , why it had been sent to the Secret Committee of the Court of Directors , as it was not addressed to any of tlie native chiefs or princes ; and whether this was the legal and usual course . —The' Earl of Ellenuokougu stated that the course taken was strictly legal . It would have been most inconvenient to make the subject-matter of that despatch public before the fall of Lueknow . T 1 IK DIVORCK BILL AND IRI ? LAND . Lord Lyn-i > iiurst inquired whether the Government intended to extend the provisions of the Divorce Bill to Ireland . —The Lord Chancellor said it was not the intention of the Government to introduce any measure having that object . As the compensation paid to proctors by the act is very large , the question of expense must be considered before applying a similar law to Ireland . —The Karl of Wicklow observed that the late Government had promised that an act of the same kind should be introduced into Ireland . —Lord CttANWOimr admitted that that was so . 1 IAR 11 KL ORGANS , The Murquis of AVestmkatii moved the second reading of his bill for the suppression of barrel organs ; but tho motion was negatived , and the hill was thrown out . THIS CAGLIAUI . Ill reply to questions from tho Earl of Aiklik in reference to the capture of the Cagliari , tho Earl of Malmksisiiuy stated that the condemnation of that vessel by tho Neapolitan Courts was not completed ; and that the despatch of tho Marquis il'A / . eglio , of the tl 2 nd of March , had been answered . Ho regretted that , in consequence t > f the explanation given of the error committed by Mr . Er . sUino in copying tho despatch of the Earl of Clarendon to Count ( Jnvour , the Sardinian Government had drawn the inference that Kuglatid intended to abandon it . 1 I « could not discover that the English Government h : id ever made any promise to cooperate with that of Sardinia in this question . From the merely ' English point of view , their connexion with it , was extremely flight , consisting only in tho neeideiit . of two English engineer * being oil board the ( Jngliari . Her Majesty ' s Government hud obtained their liberation , tins opinion of the law odtcers of tho Crown being unanimous that their detention was illegal ; tho

      two Italian States . To prevent the occurrence of hostilities so dangerous to Europe , her Majesty ' s Government had offered its good services to Sardinia by supporting it 3 endeavour to obtain the restoration of the Cagliari ; and , in the event of those failing , he had advised Count Cavour to have recourse to the mediation of some friendly Power , according to the principle laid down in the Convention of Paris , before proceeding to any measures of hostility . The Earl of Clarendon was glad to hear that the

      j Government had also demanded from Naples an , indemnity for their imprisonment . The feeling in Sar-! dinia with regard to the capture of the steamer was very ! strong—so strong as to create a risk of war between the

      Government had demanded an indemnity for the two engineers . The late Government was for a long time in complete ignorance as to the condition in which they were kept . No access was allowed to them , and the Neapolitan Government represented that they were treated well . The riven were clearly entitled to an indemnity , not only for the cruel treatment they had suffered , but for the deception put upon the English Government . ' —Lord Wensleydale called attention to the fact that a difference of

      opinion exists amongst the Crown officers regarding the capture of the Cagliari , and suggested that the opinion of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council should be taken on the question . —Lord Campbell remarked that the Judicial Committee might not be unanimous in their opinion , and , if that were so , they would , by asking for that opinion , only add to their difficulties , and give the King of Naples a plea he doe 3 not at present enjoy for refusing compensation . — - The Marquis of Claxricarde asked for the production of the reply of the Government to the despatch of the Marquis d'Azeglio . —Lord Ceaswokth opposed any reference to the Privy Council .

      The Eavl of Derby said he was sure their Lordships must be satisfied with the statements that had been made by Lords Malmesbury and Clarendon . He considered a reference to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council unnecessary , and it might be inconvenient should there be a difference of opinion in that learned body . He was not prepared to lay the reply sent to the Marquis d'Azeglio on the table at present , it being impossible to do so while the negotiations were in progress . The Government were acting in strict concurrence with the views of France . They had not tied themselves down to act with Sardinia respecting the amount of indemnity to be claimed ; what they did was to promise Sardinia to give her all the moral support they could .

      EAST INDIA BILI , Si The Duke of Argyll moved— " That ' there be laid before the House the report to the general court of the East India Company from the Court of Directors upon the two bills now before Parliament , relating- to the government of India . " He severely criticised the bill of the present Government , and said , that it proposed an entirely new constitution for India . " The independence of the council was an absurdity ; it was an independence that could not be given ; and he objected to the election of the council . He had seen , with great astonishment , a statement made by a right hon . gentleman in another place in regard to the power now

      exercised by the present Doard of Control over the government ol ' India , that it was a power lately on the increase and one which had never received the formal sanction of Parliament . Why , the whole machinery of the secret committee had been sanctioned by Parliament over and over again . In 1853 , the noble Earl opposite ( Lord Ellenborough ) expressed the strongest possiblo opinion against the principle of election being adopted with a view to anything like a representation of special interests in the council . Such interests are now represented in the worst manner . The noble Earl at that time showed a decided preference for the principle of nomination and in that opinion ho ( the Duke of Argyll ) now coincided . "

      The Earl of Ellenrorougu said he had thought the present time very inopportune for making a change in the Government of India ; but , Parliament being committed to a change , there was no drawing back . The East India Company liad conducted public business in a very amicable way , and he had never had a dispute with them . The groat evil of tho present system is tho evil of delay . It was advisable that they should have in the Indian Council persons with , whom the President might consult with regard to the commerce between England and India ; and he thought it was by the principle of election that such an element could be best obtained . The Hoiiso should take up the question of India in earnest , and not suffer a week to be wasted , as tho condition of that country requires the exercise of their utmost energy .

      Earl Grey believed the dangers of delay much less than those of taking n false . step that might ha irretrievable . It was evident that the public mind was not prepared to deal with tin ) question : the importance of the rocon . sl . metioii of the : home Government of India had been much exaggerated by all parties . To tins natives of India , who know no ouo hut the Govenioi-Goiieral , it i .- ) of little importance . —Earl Qranvillk contrasted the principles embodied in the prcsout bill with Iho opinions expressed by the Earl of Ellkniiokough in

      No, 423, May 1, 1858.] Til E Leader. 413

      No , 423 , May 1 , 1858 . ] Til E LEADER . 413

  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), May 1, 1858, page 413, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/ldr_01051858/page/5/