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Leader (1850-1860), 26th May 1855, Edition 2 of 2, Page 3

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      I Contend, A Right To Know From The Nobl...

      I contend , a right to know from the noble lord what is . really-the position in which the country is now placed with respect to recent negotiations ; in short , to have much more information than seems to have satisfied the : right honourable gentlemen who raised this discussion . Why , what is the state of the case ? The noble lord tells us that he believes he can venture to say that he hopes it is not impossible that peace may yet be obtained , and that all the means of solving the political problem have not been exhausted by the distinguished men who now possess -the confidence of the sovereign and the country . ( Laughter . " ) But has the noble lord stated any circumstances which may induce us , the representatives of the people , to suppose that there is any light by which we may guide our conduct at a moment eo : difficult as the present ? Has he given us any ground to justify us in forbearing from any expression of opinion at the present moment ? No . "

      "When his " baffled colleague" came back from Vienna , Lord Palmerston might have intimated that all means for the solution of the peace question were not exhausted , and that therefore discussion would be impolitic ; but he did not do so . Neither did he deprecate entering into the question when Mr . Milner Gibson gave notice of his motion ; but , on the contrary , disturbed the natural order of the business of the House to give an opportunity for bringing forward the motion . And now , when the whole country is expectant , Lord Palmerston desires that , upon the vaguest declaration on Ms part , this great discussion shall be silenced to suit his own convenience . " I do not know what the right honourable member for Manchester means to do with his motion ; but , from the remarkable promptitude of Lord Harry Vane in responding to what I will describe as most unreasonable suggestions , one is almost afraid that the proposer of these resolutions , as well as the seconder , has fallen into a position more convenient to the Government than honourable to himself . ( Loud opposition cheers . " ) I ask is there nobody to be considered—is there nothing to be considered—but the convenience of the minister ? ( Loud cheers . ) What are we to suppose the country will think of the exhibition of this evening ? " ( Continued cheering . ")

      . o Should the House waive all claim for explanation , q it will be placed in anything but a favourable light " before the country . p Lord Palmerston said that , if the recent negotia- w tions had not terminated favourably , the fault did B not lie with the Government , nor with our ally , the ti Emperor of the French , nor with our ally to a 11 certain degree ( laughter ) , the Emperor Tof Austria ; r ( but with Russia , and with her alone . Mr . Disraeli u : had said that he ought to have come down to the fo House with a message from the Queen ; but he had st refused to do that , because lie did not renounce all tl : hope of a satisfactory result . He had not opposed pi Mr . Gibson's motion , although he looked upon it as h ( very impolitic ; but it was not for him to dictate to se members , and , feeling it to be his duty to face the Ik motion boldly , he was there for that purpose . Mr . of Gibson must use his own discretion ; but , if he cc persisted , the Government were prepared to meet g < him . Mr . Disraeli required further explanations ; la but these the Government did not consider it fit to A give . Ho considered it would be highly injurious if ot the House were to take upon itself the power of hi carrying on negotiations . A " It the her of All his A

      Mr . Bright declared . he would be equally satisfied ut if the motion were pressed or if it were postponed in —Mr . Roebuck , urged Mr . Gibson to proceed . The tei pcoplo wcro afraid that a party in the cabinet were ( C anxious for peace at any sacrifice ; and it was because he ( Mr . Roebuck ) did not concur in that in , feeling that he desired the discussion to be proceeded m < with . —Tho Marquis of Granijy thought it was ed necessary to understand clearly whether at this time negotiations arc actually taking place . —Lord John ac < Russell stated his opinion that Austria , before the H < Conferences finally close , will make some proposition bu which must have one of two results—either it will exi be rejected , and then the Conferences will be broken hw off ; or the negotiations will bo renewed with a better crc prospect of peace . Tho negotiations , ho explained , all aro not at present brokon . off ; they arc ' only sus- gr < pendod . — yir John Pakington insisted on tho we necessity for a greater amount of information . —Sir so Geokgiis Gkky thought Lord John Russell's state- tin ment sufficiently clear . ' —Mr . Mii-nuu Gihson said op < Unit , under tho circumstances , tho Government lm < having declared that the Conferences are not ended , of ho could not , consistently with the interest a of the wil country , persist in his motion at tho present ; and lib bee should therefore postpone it until after tho Whitsun- sui tide recess . — After a few observations from Mr . ful Malinb ( who protested against Avlmt ho termed a the mock proceeding ) , from Mr . Cayi / h y ( who held that ncc this discusuion would Liavo ft most mischievous effect , be JV . ul would cause Franco to think that wo aro about aiK to desert her ) , from Sir If . WiLi . oucmiiY and Mr . eei John M'GuEaon , tho subject dropped . Ho oomo routine business was then gono through ( in me the courao of which tho Lords' Amendments of tho mo ( ing edly but had were so time had of with boon ful the ncod be and move

      Scotch Affirmations Bill was agteed to ) , and the House adjourned at eight o ' clock . EAKL GREY ' S 'MOTION . Earl Grey , on Tuesday , in answer to Lord Lywdhurst , intimated that he still intended to bring forward his motion with respect to the Vienna Conferences on Friday , unless sufficient reason should be adduced against it . A brief conversation then ensued , in which Earl Derby and Earl Granvjxle took part ; but nothing was said to induce Lord Grey to alter his determination . After a little routine business , during which the , Sewers ( House ) Drainage Bill passed the remaining stages , the Lords adjourned till Thursday . j he D" a n ° ; n ^ Jv ie l S

      : : : < ' ' j < METROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT BILL . At a morning sitting of the House of Commons , various details of this bill were gone through in committee . —Clauses 27 and 28 were postponed ; and , with those exceptions , the clauses up to 39 inclusive were agreed to . Clause 40 was subjected to certain amendments . The ensuing clauses up to 7 O were then passed , with an amendment of the 48 th ; and , the Chairman having reported progress , the House resumed , when , on the motion of Lord Barkington , it was ordered on its rising to adjourn to Thursday , in order that hon . members might have the pleasure of attending the Derby on Wednesday . THE MILITARY COLLEGE AT WOOLWICH . . In the evening sitting , Mr . Hexwood gave notice that he should upon that day month move for an address praying her Majesty to issue her commission to substitute open examination for the system of nomination at present prevailing at the Military College , Woolwich . s , n 3 , e n e I , ie r , r , e a a ** V

      c , ? * ® , ? -1 Q STATE OP" THE NATION . P Mr . Disraeli , referring to the scene which had i taken place in the House on the preceding evening , i t observed that the language of the Government on i that occasion was so equivocal , and their demeanour t j altogether so discouraging , that he shrank from the c j idea of consenting to the recess without obtaining 5 some clearer conception of the position of the coun- n r try with respect to the great question of peace or r war . In 1853 , that House had , with exemplary for- I bearance , forborne embarrassing the Government by 1 < questions and comments ; and , as a consequence , we n drifted" into war . With this recollection , the v people could not help fearing that during the recess si we might " drift" into a disgraceful peace . The JV House was about to adjourn for an unusual length of p time , and at a crisis full of danger to the country , ol was impossible to deny that the nation felt tho- tl roughly disgusted with the ambiguous language and tl uncertain conduct of Ministers ; and it would , there- jc fore , be the duty of the House before it rose to take tl steps which should show that it is not the fault of members if that uncertainty and ambiguity still prevail , and that they are prepared to support Majesty in this war until the attainment of a secure and honourable peace . He believed that the 3 , i r i r . of j

      . honourable member for Aylesbury had given notice a motion of great importance . ( A laugh . ) Of course he had no right to express a wish that that gentleman should give way to him—( continued laughter )—nor to presume to press him to do so . he ( Mr . Disraeli ) could say was , that if lie obtained an opportunity he should certainly make motion , and even if the honourable member for ylesbury persisted , he ( Mr . Disraeli ) would do his utmost before tho adjournment for the holidays to induce a debate on resolutions which he thought tended to vindicate the honour of the House . — Cheers and laughter . ) Mr . Latakd , amidst mingled laughter and cheer- , said he most cordially concurred in the senti- ments of Mr . Disraeli , and that ho would undoubt- give way on Thursday . Lord Palmerston observed that Mr . Disraeli had accused members on the Government side of the House of enacting a scene on tho previous evening ; certainly the scene they had just witnessed far exceeded the preceding one in dramatic interest . It been well done , and he gave tho actors great credit for their performance . ( Laughter . ) As to the alleged ambiguity of the Government , it would bo a great breach of propriety if fuller' explanations given . Tho forbearance of tho House in 1853 , far from destroying the chances of peace nt that , had very greatly increased them ; and tho opening of negotiations at the suggestion of Austria in no degree prejudiced tho vigorous prosecution the war , since tho Government had proceeded hostilities precisely as if no negotiations had opened . Lord Pnlmoreton concluded by as- suring tho House , in answer to tho fuar of a disgrace- peace oxprosscd by Mr . Disraeli , that , rb long as presont Government remain in power , the country bo under no approhonsion that any poaco would mado which would riot bo honourable for England safe for tho future . ( This intimation was re- eeived with loud cheering from all aides of tho House ) Towards tho end of tho evening , Lord Pal- mcrston gavo notice that on Thursday ho should tho postponement of tho orders of tho day until

      after the motion of which notice had been given by Mr . Disraeli , in order that that motion might be taken as a substantive one . THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE . Mr . Wise moved , " that it is the opinion of this House that the complete revision of our diplomatic establishments , recommended in the report of the select committee of 1850 on official salaries , should be carried into effect ; "' and proceeded to show , from . the report of the committee , the great irregularities and expense of our present diplomatic system . One of the suggestions of the committee was , that " ministers" instead of " ambassadors" should be sent to foreign courts , as being less expensive , and involving fewer forms and less etiquette . Russia has no ambassadors , but only sends first-class ministers to foreign courts ; yet it must be admitted that Russian diplomatists are quite as successful as our own . As respects Paris and Constantinople , Mr . Wise acknowledged that a great change had taken place since 1850 , and that it might be desirable that we should have at the former court a representative privileged to hold personal interviews with a sovereign who takes so great a share in the government as the present Emperor ; but the expenses of the Parisian embassy are too large . He then quoted certain figures showing the heaviness of the ambassadorial expenses at Paris arid in the Levant . He objected also to the smaller missions . If we had a minister at Frankfort ( which Napoleon said was the window from which you could look out upon the whole of Germany ) , another at Berlin , and another at Vienna , it would answer every purpose as regards Germany . The committee also recommended that the mission at Florence should be united with one of the other Italian missions ; and , for his own part , he thought the principle of amalgamation in respect to many of these small missions might be acted upon with advantage both with regard to economy and the the effectiveness of the service . Another recommendation was that no diplomatic salary should exceed 5000 J . a year ; though this was a point which it would not perhaps be well to press at the present moment in regard to the embassies at Paris and Constantinople . But it should be borne in mind that since 1840 no less than three millions have been expended in diplomatic services , and in diplomatic and consular services no less than 4 , 667 , 000 / . The country also should have better informed men for its diplomatists . Mr . Addington , who was for some years in the diplomatic service , and afterwards was Under Secretary the Foreign Department , said in his evidence on the subject of promotion in the civil list— " I fear that the tendency to favouritism , vulgularly termed obbing , is inherent in every system of government ; that members of Parliament will ask favours , and that

      m of tr . m ca j ni vi w sc ts vi fc ci in ai a * ar st di of ni an po ministers feel obliged to accede to their requests , and often in this way appoint persons to places for which they are wholly unfitted . " The selections for diplomatic services ought to be from the cream of the candidates . It might also be advisable if the young j men in the Foreign Office were encouraged to cultivate languages , and acquire that knowledge which would fit them for this higher branch of the public service . In France and Germany , great care was taken that persons appointed to the diplomatic service were properly qualified ; and in Germany , before any person's name was placed upon the list of candidates , he had to pass a very strict examination in languages , political economy , international law , and other branches of study . It would perhaps be as well to establish such a system in this country ; and , no \ y that we are going to have a new Downingstreet , we should allow tho old defective system to disappear with the dilapidated and inconvenient offices . —Mr . Ewart , in seconding tho motion , dwelt more especially upon tho " necessity for establishing an educational test for diplomatic candidates . . Lord Palmerston , while acknowledging tho importance of the question , altogether dissented from

      an efl an an sai mi pa its « s tin Pe tin far nn As rec be < am mi m » mil 50 C «» r | lt of . an opinion which Mr . Wise had expressed , to tho effect that it is the business of diplomatists to cheat and deceive , that thoy aro only honourable spies , and that their want of veracity is proverbial . Such , said his Lordship , is not tho character of the diplomatists of the present day . In theso days of newspaper expresses , any government would throw away its money who employed it iu paying spies . So far as this country is concerned , when every column of the Times is reprinted by electric telegraph in St . Petersburg within twelve hours after it appears here , the employment of spies is surely unnecessary . So far from our consuls being less cflicient than those of nny other country , ho believed thoy aro fully equal . As Mr . Wise himself acknowledged , eoyeral of tho recommendations of tho committee of 1850 havo been acted upon . For instance , the salaries of our ambassador at Paris and Constantinople , of our minister at Vienna , and of Bovoral others of our diplomatic agents abroad , havo boon reduced . The committeo recommended that no salary should exceed 5000 / . j and that recommendation has invariably boon carried into oH ' oet , except in tho case of our ministers nt Paris , Vienna , and Constantinople . Tho courts t ) f Franco and Turkey are tho only places in which

      May 26,1855.] The 'Xitera B E !E. ^^83 _...

      May 26 , 1855 . ] THE 'XitErA B E ! E . ^^ 83 _» ' :

  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), May 26, 1855, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_26051855/page/3/