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    390 THE LEADEE. [No. 470, March 26, 1859...

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    ¦ —¦ .. W. • . ... Imperial Parliament. ...

    before their decision . Once Americanise the House of Commons , and they would lose raore of weight and intelligence than they would gain of popular vigour by electoral districts and manhood suffrage . ( Loud cheer ' s . ) lie would go as far as Lord John Russell in the admission of the working man , and cared not how wide the suffrage was , provided intelligence accompanied the suffrage . In conclusion , he warned the House that this was not a case in which they could give to day and call back to-morrow ; the popular voice was like the grave—it cried , " Give , give , " but , like the grave , it never returned what it had once received . His noble friend , the Secretary for India , had stated what was the backbone , the mainspring of the "bill . It was to maintain in the hands of the middle classes that power ¦ which they had exercised , so as to render liberty progressive and their institutions safe ; not to lower the franchise to the level of the working

    traced all the principal features of the bill to measures heretofore advocated by . members who now opposed it ,. and referred to passages in . their former speeches to prove the change which their opinions had undergone . The principle of uniformity was not so dangerous as the practice of perpetually disturbing the existing arrangements with proposals for further reduction of the franchise . JVeely conceding that the working classes had improved of late years in fitness for the franchise * he remarked that they had also improved in material prosperity . Wages were better , work more regular , and taxes lighter ; and if the industrial community better deserved votes , they were also better able to obtain of

    they don ' t like it in politicrs ; but least of all will they admire it in a man who—at a time \ vhen the "best interests of his country at home , and lior most peaceful hopes abroad , demand all the patriotism all the candour , all the forbearance of . statesmen— - ( cheers)—approaches the consideration of a great national question like this , not fairly to criticise not boldly to reject , but . to contrive a crafty and catching device ( immense cheering from the Ministerial benches ) to confuse , and , if it may be , to dislocate parties , and amid that confusion aiid dislocation to secure his own political aggrandisement and private advantage . " ( Loud and long-continued cheers . ) After some brief explanations from Mr . J . Wilson , Mr . M . Gibson moved the adjournment of the debate . . The House adjourned at half-past twelve . Wednesday , March 23 . At the sitting of the Hotrsis of Commons , the HiMi SherilF ' s Expenses Bill was read a second time , on the motion of Mr . D . Griffith . . Edinburgh , etc ., aitnuit y tax bili .. Mi * . Black having moved the second reading of this bill , Mr . C . Britce moved to defer tlie second reading for six months . He opposed the bill , as a measure of spoliation and robbery , tending to the direct annihilation of the principle of an established Church , so far as the city of Edinburgh was concerned , Avhich could not be done without inflicting a heavy blow upon the established Churcli of Scotland . The bill , he contended , offered no substitute , justly available for the purpose * that could be relied upon . He was quite ready to lend his assistance in putting this tax upon a better footing . —Mr . Baxter

    supported the bill . There vras a great and growing feeling in the country that all such qxiestioiis ought to be got rid of , and he appealed to the Government to make a candid and an explicit statement of ¦ what they intended to do to settle this question ;—Mr . Blackburn opposed the bill , characterising it as a most outrageous measure , which , as fur' as Edinburgh was concerned , would take the property of the Church , and provide no substitute for what it took away . — -Mr . Hqrsmak observed that the same principle which had been applied to Dissenters in England would apply , an id should be applied , to Dissenters in Scotland . The objections to the bill

    went to the details , to which there might be valid objections ; but what faults it had belonged to matters of detail , which could be amended in committee . —Mr . Stewart opposed the bill . —Tlie Lord Advocate- strongly objected to the proposal for sweeping away the annuity tax without providing any substitute . The Government , he intimated , were engaged , iri preparing a bill on the subject , which would shortly be laid before Parliament . He agreed that the tax was levied in a . most unfortunate way ; but the principle was mixed up with the question as to a substitute , and the bill proposed the total abolition of the tax without making an

    adequate provision for the ministers . He could not , therefore , assent to the second reading of the bill . —• Mr . Mokoreiitp said , although he could wot bind himself to the details of the till or go to its full extent , lie approved its principles , and recommended that it should be road a second time . —Mr . Cowan supported the bill , which was opposed by Mr . JJaillie . ¦^ Sir W . Bunbak advocated the principle of abolition . He maintained that this tax was identical m its principle with Ministers' Money in I » _ lnnd ' which had boon abolished . —Mr . Scoarr opposed the second reading , —Lord Elciio was anxious to see this vexatious question settled , but ho did not resett oment

    gard this bill as a just and reasonable , and , as the Government Jiftd promised a bill , lie should oppose its second reading . —Mr . LA » ouciiEnB thought this tax stood upon the same looting as Ministers' Money in Ireland , The quest on now was , whether the tax , ns it stood , should bo abohsiio i . Ho was not satisfied with the substitute proposed by the bill ; but that whs a question which' might w considered in the committee . —Mr . Mackib opnoaou tho bill . —Mr . Bright said , if the doscr P "" " ° * this tax given on botli sides tvoro correct , tho . Mouse should look favourably upon nny proposal for lts f " lltlon . Edinburgh possessed ^ ufflwont rcaouuos to in-ovido stiponds for its ministers ; why UiC " , «« aslccd , should the . House oontlnuo the discnasi « j « this quostion when tlioy must come ultimately to . tie enmnnnnAltiHtnn nfl roo-nv . llllir MimStCl'S ' MOIlOi nilU time

    Church-rates?—Mr . S . Ksroounx acknowledge ovory one must oomo to tho same conclusion , tiuw i »« tax ought to bo put an end to ; the only quest u vis in what manner it should be dono . Altor to «« nouncomont nindo by tho Lord Advocate , w J > « nskod , should thoy rond a second tnuo a W »> ° provisions of which thoso who supported U ilia noc improve ? -Mr , Wwlioh and Lord D" ^( / H '" favour of tho bill , nnd Mr . Black hn-vlna [ W ± upon a division tho second roading was unniou vy i 310 to 170 . j'oon it mum r ( iwar . ANo ; niix . Mr . QttitaoRV moved tho second reading ot tuw

    the privilege through the ordinary means qualification . But although he thought the working classes fully trustworthy , and was ready to give them a fair share in the representation , he declined to allow them to swamp 'the .-suffrages' of all other classes , which must be the case if they were indiscriminately admitted to the franchise through the medium of a very low occupancy qualification . The present bill threw open the franchise in a way it was never opened beforeh and contained provisions , especially in the savings bank clause , offering a participation in electoral privileges upon conditions accessible to every man of industrious and provident habits . Reverting to . Lord-John Bussell's that while it

    resolution , lie maintained practically cancelled the Government bill , it supplied no indication of the measure which its author would hnnr self propose by way ' of substitute ; " Some years ago , " said Sir Hugh Ciiirns , " Mr . Hume proposed an abstract resolution something like that which is now before the House . Mr . Hume did not specify the extent to which , he would go ; and what did the right lion , baronet the member for Morpeth say on that point ? He said , " Before you take away from us the constitution that we have , at all events tell us what you are going to put in its place . " ( Minis ? - terial cheers . } Well , now , in like manner , I say to the noble lord , since you will not allow this bill to be read a second time , tell us what you are going to have all

    put in the place of it . ( Cheers ) . We seen reports of public meetings on this subject , and . there is not a meeting of which I have seen an account which , besides the expression of opinion on the Government Reform Bill , did not not call for triennial parliaments , either manhood or hoiischold suffrage , and vote by ballot . Well , now , I wauto to know how much of . all this tempting bill of fare the noble lord the member for London , on his agreement with the lion , member , for Birmingham , has undertaken to accept . It is only fair that we should know . What did the noble lord say years ago of the hori . . ' member for Birmingham , who at that time sat for Manchester ? Why , he said this : " What I have to find fault with in the lion , member for Manchester , and

    those who agree with him is , that they are so exceedingly narrow-minded . ' . ( Ministerial laughter arid cheers : ) Get them , upon subjects with which they are particularly , conversant * and I listen with great admiration of their extensive knowledge and acute ability ; but' ^ vhen we come to discuss larg e questions , such as concern the future of our empire , then I see their intellect and understanding bound up in so narrow a round that , it is impossible to get them to understand those great principles on which our ancestors founded the constitution of this country , arid which we , their successors , humbly admire and endeavour to follow . " We are told now , that the noble lord and the honourable

    member for Birmingham are quite agreed ; not merely as to -the step of a night which is to dispose of a bill of this kind upon an amendment : but as tQ what the consequence of that amendment must be—< loud cheers)—as to what must be the end of that of winch ' this is only the beginning . I want to . know the extent of the agreement between tho noble lord and the honourable member for Birmingham ; and I think we are also entitled to ask what probability there is of the noble lord obtaining the support of those by whom lie is surrounded on those points , Sir , the noble lord may depend upon it that those questions will not be asked merely in this house , but will also be asked in the country . ( Hoar . ) The noble lord appeals , in propf of his in this amendmentto

    sincerity proposing , his woll-knovvn and long-tried attachment to tho cause of reform . Sir , we all know and admiro tho' noble lord's attachment to this question , but we also know that there is a form of the tender passion which sometimes develops itself in jealousy for tiny attentions to the object of affection from any other quarter . ( Boars of laughter . ) Sir , tho people of this country have differed , and they will' always differ about Reform Bills , about theories of representation , about social and domestio legislation of ovory kind . But there is one subject upon which the people of this country are entirely o , grood , they don ' t like anything which boars tho lonst appearance of approach to an artifice , or , if I muBfc use a homely phrase , to a ( lodge , ( Loud Minstorial cheers . ) They don't like it in business , and

    classes , but , on the contrary , up every citizen to the level of tho class above . This was the bill of the middle classes ; it went to retain the power in the hands of that class who had hitherto exercised it so as to maintain the resources of England unlimpared amidst the disasters of commerce arid the calamities of . war . ( Hear , hear . ) If they accepted the amendment of tlie noble lord the result would be to place capital and intelligence at . the command of ignorant necessity and uninstructed numbers . Sir Edward resumed his seat amidst such cheers as we scarcely remember within the walls of a ^ deliberative assembly . The shouts were renewed again and again by the whole body of Ministerialists

    for two or three minutes , and when dying away in the noise of members leaving the House were raised afresh by one or two voices at the highest pitch . Me . Bxno said , an examination of the principles and details of the bill had convinced him of its dangerous character , as the resolution affirmed principles in which he concurred he should vote for the amendment . — -Mr . Bkilipps , in opposing the amendment , said , upon the general merits of the bill he was of opinion that a Eeform Bill ought not to be brought in by a Conservative Government , and regretted that representation was not more connected with taxation ^—Mr . C . Forster declared his intention to vote for the amendment , which was

    opposed by Mr . B . Stanhope , who ; also expressed his intention to vote against the bill on account of the provisions , it contained for assimilating the county and borough franchise : ' —Mr . Dodson also opposed the bill , which he considered inadequate and incomplete . —Mr . Vansittart highly approved of the ministerial measure , and recommended Lord John Russell to withdraw his amendment . —Mr . Knjghtuey consented to support the bill , though frankly owning that he objected to many of its details . — Mr , Sidney Herbert and Mr . M . Gibson rose together , and the latter gave way . Mr . Herbert denied that the adoption of the amendment need be fatal to the bill . The Government had

    themselves liberally promised to afford large opportunities f or amending the measure . He did not look upon the . present motion as designed to eject the administration , and should be sorry if such were its results . Examining the details of the bill , he remarked that , the Conservative party , and many of the pres , en , t ministers , had opposed tho principle of uniformity in the cpunty aiid ^ borough , frahchi § e . That principle he regarded as most pernicious . He proceeded to argue against the system founded upon the representation of numbers , contending that . tho small boroughs sent many of the ablest members to Parliament , and furnished the best materials for governments , Uniformity of the

    franchise would destroy the present useful variety aixd happy balance of representation , leaving the house divided between tlie members of extreme opinions , with tho country gentlemen on one side and the demafepguos on tho other . As it was at the $ Ame time necossai'y to reduce the county franchise , some means must be found to preserve a aulHcient distinction between the counties and boroughs , JTor'this purpose he should have preferrod a , bill resembling that suggested by Mr . Henley- ; but in the absence of such a proposal , he intended to vote for . Lord John ' s amendment , as calculated to bring about the desired object , though in a less direct man nor . Ho wished , however , that

    the Government , withdrawing thoir present bill , would themselves introduce ft measure framed on the principles he had indicated . A largo majority in that house attached muoh higher importance to the copBtruction of a good Reform Bill than to any reconstruction of tho Government j arid if the Ministry WQuMproposo a anfo tvnd moderate moasuro , he . for ono promised them hie utmost assistance in passing it . — - The SowojTQB ^ GKNBnAt . observed , if ho said that the amendment tended to confuse and embarrass tho House in tho Isbuq before it , lie should oniy say that it accomplished the end for which it was designed , If it meant anything 1 , it moant that the Houso should pass by , the bill in order to alarm an abstract resolution on two isolated provisions in it . Ho

    390 The Leadee. [No. 470, March 26, 1859...

    390 THE LEADEE . [ No . 470 , March 26 , 1859 .

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), March 26, 1859, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_26031859/page/6/