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Leader (1850-1860), 22nd July 1854, Edition 2 of 2, Page 3

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      Attempts At The Public Money". In Commit...

      punishment had been brought down to 48 lashes in the navy . According to returns presented to the House , the number of men flogged in the army , in 1845 and the first six months of 1846 , was 341 , who received ' 38 , 500 lashes , being an average of 112 lashes to » each man ; the number of men flogged in the year 1852 was 45 , who received 1900 lashes , being an average of not quite 46 lashes to ' each man . In that Same year there were 101 regiments in which not a single stroke on the back of any man was inflicted . In the navy , in 1842 , 2107 men were punished , who received 71 , 024 lashes ; in 1852 only 578 men were flogged , who received 17 , 500 lashes . Wliy did the right hon . bdroiiet refuse to give the return he asked for ? Did he mean to say that , after the

      House liad placed in his hands 13 , 000 , 000 ? . to expend on the navy , and that without a single word 'of objection , they "were not entitled to the information that return would give ? If the statement made respecting the Star was correct , great mismanagement must have taken place , and the House ought to be informed of it . But the right hon baronet at last thought fit to remove Commander Warren from the Star . Wliat did the crew say ? They said they were ready to shed their blood in the service of their Queen , but they objected to have their blood shed by the cat-o ' -nine tails by this Commander " Warren . He was not surprised that the Government -should have removed that man from his ship , for many desertions had taken place in consequence of his treatment of the crew .

      Sir Ja ^ ves Gkaha . hi pooh-poohed the matter ; talcing advantage of the ' Miriisterialism which has set in among the Radicals . He denied the facts ; and asserted that where men had been flogged , it was because they had committed serious offences . The question , as to ¦ whether flogging ought to continue in the nary of tins ' enlightened country he dealt -with in his usual way—ras an open 'question . The matter dropped ; but the impression left was , that Mr . Williams had made out his case ; and there ought to be the further inquiry—Was Captain "Warren removed from the " Star" for misconduct : and if so , is the removal to be his only punishment ?

      HOUSE OF COM 3 IONS PRINTING . — -GOVERNMENT DEFEAT . On Tuesday Mr . J . Giieene called attention to the enormous expense to the country of the printing the papers , & c , of the House of Commons ; and lie moved for a commitiee of inquiry as to what new inventions could be brought into use with a view to economy and general national benefit in the cheapening of literature . The Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed the motion on proper economical grounds . The Government , he said , were considering whether the Parliamentary printing could not be done at a less expense ; but with regard to testing

      inventions , he considered that it was not the business of Parliament to go into such matters , which appertained entirely to considerations of private enterprise . Mr . Otway answered the Chancellor of the Exchequer : the House had appointed a committee to inquire into " Small Anns' " matters ; and the politico-economical principle being thus outraged , Avhy not in this csise ? Mr . James Wilson answered Mr . Otway : the case ^ instanced was exceptional . And then followed a ' crowd of members enumerating new inventions , jind urging ihe Government to yield . The numbers were : for the motion , 5 G ; against , 32 : so that Mr . Gladstone received tho intimation that he is not strong in the House .

      THE ESTABI / IsrriCD CHURCH TN in . EI . AND . On Wednesday the " adjourned debate "—adjourned so long that every one had forgotten all about the matter—on tho Church Temporalities ( Ireland ) Bill was resumed , pro forma , by Mr . Titrstuaiu Kennedy , one of the independent Irish pnrty , merely for the pin-pose of enabling Serjeant Siike , whose motion it was , to reply to the various criticisms made upon him on the former occasion : — " It would be recollected that when lie brought forward his motion his ol > j <; ct wu . s to transfer a portion of the surplus income of tlio Irish church establishments to two new commissions—one Presbyterian and tho other Roman Catholicin order that such portion of that surplus income might be

      omployod in building , rebuilding , replacing , and furnishing places of worm hip tot thu beneiit of Mio great body of tho Irish population , tho Piv . sbyti / iians and the lioman CiUho-Ucs , in tho sumo way us tho largo huiiih which were received by thu Ecclesiastical Coinrnissiouors wen ) employed for tho benefit of tliu minority—tho members of tho Established Church , And ho hurl entered into numerous stiitistien to show , that us tho revenues of the KatiiMinhod Church woro now applied , they did nut comluco to thnt end , which , according to Bishop Wurlmrton and Pnloy , wa . s tho only ono upon which « Church KHtahlmlunent would bojuntilio < l by tho oxtonnion and dinHoniiiiation of Cl . iiHtiuu knowledgo

      amongit lliugroaL lioily of tho peo | ih- ; nnd had'furl her quoted tint opinions of thu most eminent , ntnU'nme , n , inoluding Lord Ikougham , Mr , Mueaulay , Lord Grey , Lord Campbell , Lord J . ltusaoll , and Sir ( . 3 . ( . Iruy , thai thu profonl . Mnto of tho Churth Ktttablifthment in lielaud wnw lndi'lunuiblo , and that it wjih tho duty of Parliament , to correct tho uIiuhos whioh cxistiid . Tho stiiti-inent hu had then made certain "onouriiblo gentlemen < linputed . " Tho question , he contended , was only allowed to sloop because it did not suit , thci party tactics of either of tho aristocratic Koctlons of the governing class to make cnpltnl out of it . After entering into various ntiiu « tlc « , h « concluded thus : —

      Hodini . rc « l wnh Nomu « f lim honouruhlo friends ucurliim \ u . ) i , l , " i , 1 T 10 < lt ) l " . «; illi "K " ill , th < , H . ureh muph . H . He 1 f Vii " V ' « 1 ' ! y ' »•» llK'ir intoroHt to olmcvo their oath fat . h fully . Hu did not ngrw with them that it would

      be well for them that the church establishment shouTd Tre p ut down . If it were ptft down they would have a prose- ' Jytising army , instead of , as at present , a body of gentlemen 1 residing among them , wlio , though they-did Tiot administer to the spiritual wants of the people , did , when tliefe TvasJ distress , administer to fheir bodily wants-without'distinction ' of creed . His belief was that they ought , as far as they could consistently with the freedom of their church , to connect themselves by acts of parliament passed for their benefit with the Government under which they lived . l ? or this reason he regretted very much what had been said as " to giving up the endowment of Maynooth . He believed there would be no good government , no security for any liberal administration , no possibility of carrying on a consistent scheme of liberal education till the Government acted consistently and satisfactorily-on this great question of- the Irish church . It was to promote this object , it was for the purpose of getting rid of all dissension and animosity in Ireland , and of producing as far as possible , consistently . with the maintenance of an Established Church , religious equality in Ireland , that he proposed this bill . " ( Cheers . * ) Some conversation took place , the House hesitating ; to go into the matter , but Mr . Frewen , as an English member , ventured to suggest an opinion that Protestantism would . get on / better in Ireland if—there were more churches and .-more clergy ! i Mr . Coo an would vote for the motion ( for leave to introduce a bill ) , but doubted if he could entirely approve of it . It was too great a question to be treated arithmetically , as Serjeant Shee proposed ; but at the same time he would not like to force on a controversy which -might bring- Lord Derby and his faction back to power . Mr . Newdeg-a-te . then attempted to introduce the Appropriate bad spirit of the debate . Lord Derby , he assured Mr . Cogan , had governed Ireland with success ! The relative numbers of Protestants and Catholics in Ireland had now greatly changed ; and he thought they were now pretty equally divided in that country . He CMr . Newdegate ) would therefore put it to the House whether this was a time for the learned serjeant to come forward and propose the suppression of nearly 400 benefices ? Serjeant Shee—Not suppression , consolidation . Mr . Newde & ate' —That was a nice phrase , certainly . ( Laughter . ) But the learned serjeant , at all events , proposed to diminish by " consolidation" the Irish benefices to the number of 395 . And he would again ask whether this were a time to weaken the Established Church -when so many hundreds and thousands of Roman Catholics were daily joining it ! Mr . Bowyer supported the motion , aud would like to see the bill : — " At the same time lie objected to its principle , because he could not understand how any Roman CathoHc member could bring in a measure respecting the Irish Church which had not for its object the getting rid entirely of that nbuse and standing nuisance an the country . Ho would not go into tho question t > f the oath , because that was a subject which savoured somewhat ot casuistry , and was rather a matter for individual conscience . At the same time he could not conceive that tho oath could ever have been intended to fetter the members of the House in their legislative capacity , because that would bo entirely unconstitutional . He was far , however , from coveting the wealth of the Establishment cither in England or in Ireland . The Roman Catholic Church \ vus in a far wholesomer condition than would be the case if it was possessed of stato patronage ; and her bishops with incomes of 4 O 0 £ . ov 500 / , a year were as learned , as active , and as saintly as any bishops iu the world . The hon . and learned serjeant said he wished to improve the character and position of the Established Church by taking away what appeared to him to be a blot ; hut ho ( Mr . Bowyer ) | h < mglit that the Protestants were tho best judges of that thomsclvos . Ho did not 'wish to interforo with their affairs , just as he hnd wished tho Prdtostnnts not to interfere with the monastic institutions . He ftlt certain thnt tho people of Ireland would never bo'satisfied with thu bill as a aettlemant of tho Church question /' Mr . Brady contended that Ireland was more intensely a Catholic country 'than she had over been . Hero the thin House wearied of a mahapropos and mismanaged discussion ; and , on a division , there were only 81 for the motion—117 against . BRimon : mx ' A ,. Tho Committee discussion of tho many clauses of this bill was continued on Monday in the House of Commons . Tho analytical debate was extremely interesting—to party agents ; -would be incomprehensible to tho world at largo . Tho -whole of Thursday , from 12 o ' clock noon to ( 1 o ' clock in tho morning ( yesterday morning ) was occupied in getting tlirough tho Committee . Upon ai clnuso proposed by Lord K . Grosvbnor , a prolonged debate ensued touching tho legality or expediency of permitting candidates to pay for the conveyance of voters to tho polling places , or to iesuo refreshment tickutH . The clause strictly prohibited all payments upon either nreount , nnd was carried to n . division , but rejected by a majority of 190 to 80 — 10-1 . Mr . rhwNiioi'ia moved tho insertion of a clauso lognliHing tho issuo of refreshment tickets , not oxct'eding tho value of Ua . each , to tho voters at elections . Upon divinion this clause was also rejected by 112 votes to 120—10 . Tho bill was to ho reported Iu 8 t night , and will bo In tho Lords on Tuesday .

      REFORMATORY SCHOOLS ( 8 COTI . A . ND ) BflSL . ^ A religious discussion also took plaee upon this bill—the Irish Catholic members objecting to it , "because practically , by being connected with reKgitfus tests , Bible reading , & c , it would exclude the desti - tute Roman Catholic children of Scotland . IChe opposition was led by Mr . MagOir * :. Mr . M'Ma &*> n objected to giving , by this bill , summary powers to magistrates to send infant offenders to reforma & Jry schools ; Mr . LtrcAs supporting the objection , on fie ground that the effect of the clause would be to fimprison Roman Catholic children , not in gaols , but in

      Protestant schools . The Lord Advocate treated this religious apprehension with derision . He -ieminded the committee that this bill was to bencSat those poor neglected children who really had no * eligion at all in them . He did not "desire to make this bill a proselytising measure ; but he denied-that those parents who neglected entirely their childr-en , and left them to the mercy of the world , had any right to dictate what their religion should be . At the same time , when a child expressed a wish to go to any particular school , there he would be sent . Surely honourable gentlemen could not ask niore than this .

      Mr . M . MilIces thought it a deplorable thingtfeat " upon an occasion when hon . mem hers should join Sri philanthropic rivalry to pass this bill , so much , jealousy and rivalry should be exhibited . He could hardly conceive that -at this time , when religion and morality were so closely associated , hon . frnembers should contend that it was better that these poor children should remain steeped in immorality than jthat they should be liable to having their religious views altered . The discussion went on -until Mr . IE . Scullt took it up , and as he , of course , could not stop , having once started , the Speaker had to arrest ; the debate altogether when the fingers of the clock pointed'to the hour ( six o ' clock ) at which the day ' s sitting concluded .

      The Bill , for preventing He venue- collectors " paying themselves . —The " Public Revenue and Consolidated Fund Charges Bill" ( which , in future , would have required the whole revenue to be paid , -without drawbacks for collection , into the Treasury ) was brought for a second reading before the Lords on Monday , and met with unexpected opposition . Lord Monteagle , who has great sympathy for jobs , made exceptional objections to the bill , such as tbat it subjected some " fixed pensions" to the " annual control " of the House of Commons , moved , as an amendment , that the bill be referred to a select committee ; and being baefced by Lord . Brougham ( who said this bill would give tho Commons more work , and would therefore prolong sessionswhich seems to be a great evil for a country with represen - tative institutions ) , and by Lord Derby , who evidently did not understand the bill , but was seemingly glad to vex the Government , Lord Granville , who had charge of the measure , gave way ; and the bill stands referred to a select committee of Lords—that is , it is lost .

      Hospital Ship for Come Harbour . —The is no hospital ship for the great port of Ireland ; this Was Mr . Maguire ' s complaint to tho House of Commons on Monday ; instancing the propriety of his demand by a reference to the case of tho ship Diiigo , which , with cholera on board , put into Cork the other day , and had to go on to Liverpool , in quest of hospital accommodation ; seventeen new victims falling meanwhile . The Government , through Sir J . Young , a squire with no sympathies for emigrants , treated the matter lightly , so enraging tho Irish "members who are not ia Sir J . Young ' s pay , that Sir George Grey had nliwest to apologise , ami Lord John had to make a quasi promise ( whioh Sir J . Yomir would not make ) that tho matter should be u looked into . " This was all Mr . Maguiro could get ; and this was regarded by Sir J , Young aa too groat a concession to nn independent member . HAiirsTiSAD I-lKATii .-r-Tlie Flnchley Road Estate Bill has got into tho Commons from the Lords ; and the peoplu ' e representatives will now have to tnko care that a popular ' enjoyment be not disturbed by an encroaching squire .

      J^Uly 22, 1854.] The Lead Ell. 675

      J ^ uly 22 , 1854 . ] THE LEAD Ell . 675

      Ottr Private Parliament. Trie Editor Of ...

      OTTR PRIVATE PARLIAMENT . TriE editor of the Morning Chronicle does not underatjind the peculiarities of our constitution ; on Monday last ho was innocent enough to despatch a reporter , "in tho regular course of business 9 , " to fake notes of a " meeting" ho had heard of—it being tho meeting of " Parliamentary supporters , " nt Lord John Russell ' s house ( where followers appear to be allowed ) , in Downing-strcot . The reporter ( it is rumoured that Lord John told him that ho would put it to the meeting whether " Strangers" were to bo allowed in—and clid ' nt ) wa 9 , of course , not . admitted . But tho reporter know various available M . r . ' s , with good niomorios , and , as if to punish Lord John , appears to hnvo got a very good report of what passed . IIore it is ;—something piquant iu political history .

      T rhorc wore 180 " supporters : " nnd ( ho following members of tho Government wore prosont : — Lord . "John Kussoll , Sir O . ( hoy , Sir James Graham , Mr . Sidney Herbert , the Chancellor of the Kxchequor , Lord T ' ahnerston , Sir W . Molcsworth , Mr . Cardwell , Sir John Young , Mr . James Wilson , Mr . F . Pee ) , Mr . K . Lowo , the Solicitor-General , the Lord Advocate , Lord Klclio , Mr . Hivytor , Lord Mulgravo , Mr . Gronville Berkeley , Mr . Ifortosouc , Mr . W . Oowpcr , Lord K . TJrucc , Mr . Monaell . 3 iOX"d J . ltuHSKLi . bogan'by observing " Unit he had

  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), July 22, 1854, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_22071854/page/3/