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Leader (1850-1860), 17th April 1858, Edition 2 of 2, Page 3

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    • ffo. 421, ApbiIj 17, 1858. J THEL.EAPEB....

      ffo. 421, ApbiIj 17, 1858. J THEL.EAPEB....

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      Imperial Parliament. ^""^ Monday, April ...

      nrecantions against a recurrence of the evils , of which * e had not yet inquired the cause . —In replying to Sir Benjamin Hall ' s question the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he certainly had no intention of o & andoning tho bill , which he thought would be likely to be im proved by the discussion on the resolutions , and . mold probably in the end become the law of the land . _ Tlie report on Supply was then agreed to .

      THE "WAR ESTIMATES . On the proposition to go into Committee of Supply , jlr . Williams complained that the war estimates for fbe * year ( 20 , 300 , 000 ^ . ) were larger by millions than any that had ever come before the House—7 , 257 , 000 ^ . more than presented to the unrefonned House in 1830 , and 8 , 000 , 000 / . more than under the Government of Lord Melbourne . He moved , by way of amendment , tbat the estimates be referred to a select Committee . — Sir John Paicington opposed the reference to a select commi ttee , and promised to explain tlie estimates in committee of the whole House . —The House divided , when the amendment was defeated by 161 to 24 . —The House then went into committee of supply , Mr . Fixzkov in the chair . THE NAVY ESTIMATES .

      Sir John Pakixotox , in laying his statement before the House , said that , " on the first vote , ' number of men , wages of seamen and marines , ' the estimate was higher than of late years , or of last year ; but tho Government felt that their predecessors in office took a bold and wise course , and he could not propose any reduction . Twelve months ago , the vote was 33 , 000 seamen and marines , 2000 men for surveying purposes , and 5700 for the Coast Guard . At a late period of the year , 2000 more seamen were added , so that , for the year 1857-8 , the total number was 42 , 700 . For 1858-9 , the late Government asked an increase of 2000 for officers and seamen to man our ships , and of 1000 for the coast-guard service . Of this number , however , G 80 was merely a transfer from the civil service to the military . The total vote for the year ,

      then , was 2 , 401 , 559 / . When , some time sines , he asked for a vote on account , he stated that there were something like 1000 men on the books beyond the last vole ; at the present moment there are borne on the books 1621 more than the last year ' s vote ; and 13 IS men are required in addition . The present state of our force in East India and China i-3 satisfactory . In 185 G , it consisted of 17 ships , with 332 guns , and maimed by 3151 sailors : now there are 75 ships , with 953 guns , and 11 , 863 men . Several of the ships arc on their ' way home ; but there would still remain a force of GO ships , with 789 guns , and 10 , 300 men . A great increase had also taken place in the force on the coast of Africa , fur

      the suppression of the slave trade . In 1855 , wo had there 20 ships , with 134 guns , and 1957 men ; now we have 29 ships , with 215 gnus , and 3353 . So that , including the six fillips now on their way home , we have now between 15 , 000 and 10 , 000 of our whole naval force in tho-c two squadrons . But the state of tilings at home is far less satisfactory ; and Govern men t are of opinion that it is far better to ask Parliament for aid in supply ing tho deficiency than to attempt to conceal a fact which must be known to every Government in Europe . " We have the noblest ships that ever floated on the sea ; but many of them arcs not fully manned . " In accordance with tlie recommendations of the Duke

      of Northumberland ' : ) committee , the ' continuous service' system and the ' naval volunteers , ' or ' marine militia' system , had bean adopted with the very best effect ; and within a fortnig ht or a month at least , wo could put to sea twenty vessels to cruise in the Channel . But this could only bo " dono in case of a national emergency ; and it was not creditable to tho country that we should not have tho moans of sending a ship to soa except umL-r such circumstmioos . lie was in hopes to bo able to meet the case by tho extension of the continuous service man . " Sir John PaUmgton then condemned the conduct of tho late Government iii discharging 8000 of these men under tlie pressure of tho cry of 'economy . ' Tho immediate result was , the loss of 3000 moat eflieient hands ; and tliq moral effect

      was still worsr , as it induced mon enlisted ior ten ye « ra to believe that they could bo discharged nt any moment . Tho Government nro unanimously of opinion that Kngland should never bo without aCluumol sijuudroii ; ami he hoped that , before tho summer io over , we shall have such a squadron . Ho deprecated the dismantling ol our war ships not a year ugo ; but ho did not wiwli to exempt himself from blmno on tho subject , _ na the course in question liad been taken by tho Government under pressure of tho IIouho . The present Ministry i » endeavouring to repair that error , into which they would not fall again . He thought that

      ships should bo put into commission for fivo iuntead of three years . Tho number of men and boys proposed to be voted was 09 , IH 8 . 1 , 027 , 1157 / . would bo jinked for ~^ vio £ ua ' lfiny Wo " Hitv 3 ^ t «^ riTnSrq 5 B ^ rnWri"O » ' - ~ "On *' tho sum which wns voted last your . " It wns not tho intention of tho Government to auk for a vote for moro than 10 , 800 mon for dockyard * , being tho number neked last y «« r . This estimate would bo 60 , 000 / . bulow that proponed by the luto Government iov the present your ; but if , nt tho close of tho summer , 'ho funnel tlmt the monoy was not suuleiout , he would link for a further sum . of 60 , 000 / . Ho also proposed to reduce the veto P tho lute Government for uayul etoroa by 75 , 000 / .,

      which smn was made up of 15 , 00 ( W . for general stores , 10 , 000 for fitting ships by contract , and 50 , 000 / . for steam machinery . He should state upon this subject that it was the intention of the Government to issue a small commission to investigate the condition : and caire of steam machinery . The next vote to which he would refer was 694 , 618 / * for new work , which be proposed to reduce by a number of small items , amounting in all to 108 , 756 / " The sum of 495 , 500 / . was asked by the late Government for the transport service , and this sum he proposed to reduce by 85 , 000 / ., 45 , 000 / ., for freight , and 40 , 000 / . for fuel , consequent upon this reduction . He had been enabled to effect this reduction by a number of hired ships having been paid off in China . The total difference between his estimates and the estimate of the late Government for 1858-9 , was 318 , 756 / ., and the total reduction , as compared with the estimates for the year 1857-8 , was 613 , 845 / . " Sir Charles Napier condemned the reduction in the

      number of men last year . —sir Charles Wood eould not agree with the reductions indicated by Sir John PakingtOD , and the same view was taken by Mr . Dkujsmojsi > , Mr . Bentincic , and Admiral Wxlcott . —Mr . Corky vindicated the course taken by the Government in their desire to reduce expenditure . —Sir George Peckell regretted the Government had not given them any information with regard to keeping up gunboats on the coast of Africa and the coast of Cuba . — Lord Clakexck Paget advised the Government to pause in the construction of enormous ships . —Lord PalmejKSTOn

      differed from this recommendation , and observed that our dockyards are inconveniently small , and that some of them should be reconstructed if they are to hold the lineof-battle ships that are being built . Their machinery should be also enlarged ; for it is obviously useless to build large vessels if we have not the means of repairing them . —Sir John Elphinstojje considered that the recently constructed gun-boats were failures , and that the competitive system would not be beneficially applied to the navy , if made a preliminary to appointments .

      Sir Johst Pakingtox having replied , Mr . Horseman said that the Government needed no apology for adhering to the estimates of the late Government ; on the contrary , he should not have , objected if they had asked to increase them . It seemed , from all the statements made that evening , that , while calling ourselves the first of maritime nations , we are no longer masters of the sea . With respeet to France , it appeared that , while she lias forty ships of the line , we have forty-two ; but the ships of France are of greater force and of a much more convertible description than ours . They had all heard of

      the enormous works at Cherbourg and of the railway to that arsenal , which would be open in the course of the summer . The French have a fine army and a naval conscription ; and with these two arms they could , between Cherbourg and Toulon , man a fleet and despatch an expedition in an exceedingly short period of time . Napoleon once said that with twenty-four hours' possession of the Channel lie could conquer England ; and the first naval authorities are of opinion that an invasion of this country under such circumstances would be a very serious affair indeed .

      Mr . Ki . vnaiuj ) thought that the vote on half-pay and retirement required revision . He believed that the principle adopted in France—that of retirement at a certain age—was the best that could be adopted . —Mr . AViljjlams observed that the expenditure now asked for was only GOO , O 0 O / . less than that demanded by Lord Aberdeen , lie belioved that the present Government had beeu greatly misled by tho extravagant estimates of their predecessors . The vote was then agreed to ; as were also the following : —1 , 401 , 559 / . for tho wages of seamen and marines ; 577 , 357 f . for depots for seamen nnd marines ; and 70 , 000 / . for the ofllces and contingent expenses of the Admiralty-office . The CUAimiAjs then reported progress ; tlie House resumed ; and the Oaths IUll having been read a third time , and passed , amidst much cheering , and some routiuo business having boon despatched , the House adjourned at a quartor to one o ' clock .

      Tuesday , April 13 th . LHIEL HILL . In the House ok Lemon , Lord Ca & U'IUCll moved tho second reading of this bill . Tho bill is fonndud on the recommendations of tlio Committee to whieli , during last yenr , some defects of the prcseut law had beeu referred . The measure consists only of three clauses : one relating to the immunity IVoiu actions for libel to be given to tho publication of tho debates of Parliamout ; tlio other two deflniny the protection to bo extended to reports of ordinary public meetings . At present , tho law

      gives such a protection only to tho published proceedings of tlio courts of justice ; but this immunity tho biii-propoaed-to-esctond *—yL'l > o-me » wuro .-. ( . oxuluHio 4 .-Wa . Lordship ) will not In tlio romotost degroo ud ' uct tho privilege .- * of Purlianumt . Hut the proprietors of juowspupors uro wtill liable to prosecution for publishing words spoken in Parliament if they are libellous . When tho sumo matter transpiron In a court of law , tho pub-Ushers aro not liable to any action for recording it , if done faithfully nnd without malice . Why should they not have an equal degree of immunity for reporting the debute * of tho Houses oi" Logialntlou V Tho third clause

      of the bill defines the public meetings to which his Lordship wished to see the same principle applied . Lord Lyniuiurst condemned th « bill as inadequate . The attempt in the third clause to define what shall be considered lawful meetings left many points undecided ; and he therefore recommended the omission of that clause altogether , so that the bill should apply to all meetings called for a lawful purpose . Commenting on the absurdity and injustice of the law as it at present stands ,, his Lordship said : — " A man attends a public meeting , and makes a speech of a most malicious character . He sees the reporters taking down every word . He knows it will all be published—he makes it for the very purpose of having it published ; and yet the law cannot take hold of him . (// ear , hear . ) The reporter , on the other hand , is wholly intent upon taking down

      accurately what he hears ; he has no opportunity or time for consideration ; he sends away his slips as fast as he writes them ; and , if he revises the report , he does it in the utmost haste . He has no malicious motive , and , indeed , he may not even knew the point upon which the calumny turns ; yet he is made the scapegoat . Nothing can be more unjust . { Cheers . ) The principle of the distinction between written and verbal slander obviously does not apply to reports . If a man dictates the slander , and it is written down and published , then the person who dictates is liable . Now , it is quite true that a person in making a speech does not give any express authority for its publication ; but everybody knows that his intention is that it shall be published . What is wanted is soine machinery by which to supply this trifling link in the chain , and so to make the author of the calumny responsible for it . " Lord Wesslei ' dale strongly objected to the bill , and moved that it be read a second time that day six months . —The Lord Chancellor thought that the proposer of the measure was bound to furnish some proof of real inconvenience caused by the existing state of the law . That had not been done , and therefore the bill ought not to pass the second reading . —Lord Craswokth contended that the inconvenience of the present law in . certain cases had been distinctly proved . —Lord Cambell replied , and the House divided , when the bill was thrown out by 35 to 7 . Their Lordships adjourned at nine o ' clock . NEW CHELSEA-BRIDGE . In the House of Commons , Mr . Beady asked the Chief Commissioner of Works if be was aware that footpassengers entering on the New Chelsea-bridge are compelled to pass over whether they desira it or not , and then to pay a second toll to be allowed to return ; and , if so , did he propose taking any steps to remedy any incoEvenience so unprecedented ?—Lord John Manners said , that the present arrangementarelative to the New Chelseabridge were made with a view to meet the publie convenience . ( Cries ( if " Oh , oh / " a / td laughter . ) No less than 30 , 000 people passed over the bridge last Sunday ; and if they had beeu allowed to go half-way and turn back , great inconvenience would have resulted . Of course , if it were found that that did not suit the public , au alteration would be made . THE MEDITERRANEAN TELEGRAPH . The Chancellor ok the Exchequbr stated that no arrangements had yet been concluded to effect the object of extending the Mediterranean system of telegraphs to Alexandria and for bringing India into telegraphic communication with this country ; but he hoped that in a very short time arrangements embracing that object would take place . Ho added ( in answer to an inquiry by Mr . Wicld ) that arrangements were pending between the Austrian Government and the Government of her Majesty upon tho subject , but that tho giving of a monopoly to tho Austrian Government did not form part of those arrangements .

      OUK REPRESENTATIVE AT TURIN . Iii reply to Mr . Wise , the Chancellor of the Exchequer said there wus no iiUcution to recul Sir James Hudson frotu Turin , but that Mr . Erakiuo , tho Secretary of Legation , had been recalled to this country to answer for his conduct , nud had beou suspended . THE SETTLEMENTS IN TUB STRAITS OF MALACCA . Lord Bury callod attention to the condition of tho settlements in the Straits of Malacca ( viz ., Penang , Singapore , and Malacca ) , commonly called the Straits Settlements , nn < l asked the . Chancellor of the Exchequer ¦ whether there would bo uny objection on tho part of Government to except the Straits Settlements from tho action of tho bill for placing tho territories of tho East d to

      India Company under the control ot tlio Crown , an nlaco them in tho immediate charge of the Secretary of State for the Colonies . Tho Indian Government usoh these settlements as convict stations , and tho respectable Inhabitants complain or being obliged to receive all tho Huum of Madras , Ifcmgal , aud Bombay , iw well us to pay the expenses of the convict establishments and tho mTliT ^ y ^ fm c ^ 7 ~ Tirn -ddltloirto-tho ~ qucBtioH-. whieh ho liad put upon tho paper , ho should conclude by making a motion fur tho production of o . ny oorroHpondonoo that had piMwoil botwoon her Majesty's Government and the Hunt India Company upon llio subject of the settlements in tho Strait * of Malacca . —Mr . Uaillik said it was Irapoiwlblu for her Majesty ' s ( jovormnent to deal -with tho subject without ftmt communicating with the East India Company ; inasmuch as tho settlements referred to form

      Ffo. 421, Apbiij 17, 1858. J Thel.Eapeb....

      ffo . 421 , ApbiIj 17 , 1858 . J THEL . EAPEB . ____ 36 a

  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), April 17, 1858, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_17041858/page/3/