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    Aug. 16, 1851.] 1Rf)$ 9Ltail$V. ¦ 783

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    Nationat, Ciiaktkk Ahso(,tation.— At the...

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    THE It ED E MPT ION SOCIETY. A public di...

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    VISIT TO A NORTH AMERICAN I'll A LA NSIT...

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  • Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.

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    Patriotism A "Charity." Organization Has...

    are driven into the opposite extreme of speaking for nothing . By this mistake or artifice of the enemy , every organization is paralyzed , reformation reduced to a charity , and every man able and willing to instruct the poor in political or social knowledge , ia starved with his own approbation , and amid the applause of the public . Mr . Ernest Jones has published a letter , in which he owns with manly candour that he " is p 0 or very poor , for when was a soldier of Democracy assistance

    otherwise ? " but he declines some ' proferred him , feeling convinced that nothing is more injurious to the People ' s cause , in the eyes of the world , than that its advocates should be pensioned on its charity . " The whole of this language proceeds from a false pride , can only tend to strengthen a pernicious delusion , and perpetuate Chartist impotence . I deny that when a man works till he is both poor and ill , that assistance proffered him by those for whom he has worked , is either

    a " pension , or a " charity . It is only rightful support , yielded by tardy justice . I might multiply the instances of persons who hold this language , and take this course ; a course which has no dignity , and no utility . Surely there can be a line ofdr-marcation drawn between avarice or venality , and moderate subsistence for actual work performed . On the present system of giving public instruction for nothing , none but the very rich or knaves can take the side of the People ; and , as the rich are too indolent , and the knaves unscrupulous , nothing i ? clone , and nothing can be done . Social and political

    advocacy is , in these days , an onerous and disagreeable thing . The Government suspect you , the wealthy mistrust you , the poor , for whom you speak , starve you , and you may think yourself very lucky if they do not denounce you . With fipathy everywhere , and confidence nowhere , it requires both courage and obstinacy to go among people uninformed and uninterested , and awaken them to some sense of public duty on these questions . I say , lhatsuch an advocacy ought to be well paid ; let it at least be elevated to the dignity of a humble trade , which keeps " body and soul together . " Canting . puffing , and shopkeeping are paying professions ; and

    why should not public instruction be one ? It should not be made a means of riches , it should have no tincture of venality about it , for that would endanger its influence and its integrity ; but it should have an honest price for its hearty work . If this plan were pursued there would not be half so much public speaking as there now is—but this Avould be no harm , I am sure ; but the said speaking would be much better and much more to the purpose than it now is—and this would be a great benefit , I am sure . If working-people were trained to pay for the discourses made to them , they would come to expect something for their money . Now they hardly

    expect anything of the kind ; and I am sorry to add they are seldom disappointed . Whatever the honour of the poor may be , and it is very great , it cannot at present direct them how to remunerate tho « e who are the teachers , because they have always boon taught that teaching should be gratuitous , or else it cannot be patriotic . A man to speak to any purpose should have time to think before he speaks , and if he hasn ' t tiny instruction he will be all the better if lie get it first ; but a man who has no private means must first look after his wants and those of his family , and then his speaking and teaching have to take care of themselves ; and he rushes to the platform and delivers himself on anything that comes first , without trouble

    and without thought , naturally thinking anything good enough for people who begin themselves by thinking it good for nothing , since they do not intend to give anything for it- The charity system ban this disadvantage—it entitles every man to infest a platform and occupy public attention who happens to have the accidental faculty of being able to apeak gratuitously . Patriotism lias the vice of Blopselling about it . . Reformers think so much about , the cheapness of the article that they forget to attend to its quality . Chartist speakers will never be improved , nor Chartist assemblage !) elevated , nor Chaitist organizations rendered vital , nor Chartist executives a power , till this system is reformed altogether . Io . v .

    Aug. 16, 1851.] 1rf)$ 9ltail$V. ¦ 783

    Aug . 16 , 1851 . ] 1 Rf ) $ 9 Ltail $ V . ¦ 783

    Nationat, Ciiaktkk Ahso(,Tation.— At The...

    Nationat , Ciiaktkk Ahso ( , tation . — At the usual meeting of the Executive , a report , was rend from Mr . Ernest Jones , giving a sutisf'tetory account oi hiH progress in the Went . lie lias been 10 Torquay , Pl ymouth , Devonport , and Hii-iol , meeting with < ' » pital audiences , and finding " a genuine 1 ) emo-< ratie . sj . iiit at work . " Mr . ' Reynolds will write the ; next tract for the monthly circular . Aft < r concluding the imnincHn of the Association , a meeting of Metropolitan a <> cntH was held . These agents made verbal

    foports from their localities . Mr . Shepherd found * K » orance the worst foe oi Chartism in Limehou'te . r * - Nichols gave . some cheering accounts of tin ' ¦ "ox ton locality , where the members have establifihed ! * la (> t pro paganda , with lining sections ol " < lisinbutoiK . " Mr . Onborne found Chartism in a " low Positio n" in Finnbury ; but the membeiH have a hall , « i < l in wBH authorized to state that the free use thereof fair ' ? Biv <> " to the Executive every Tuesday evon-» » < w » d to suggest that a , monthly conference of . tho

    whole of the metropolitan members be held , and that the Metropolitan Delegate Council be reorganized . Mr . Newsome added that they were printing addresses and tracts for distribution . Mr . Cooper found " great prejudice against Chartism at Greenwich ; " but they were about to commence a distribution of tracts , and they had a regular meeting place . Messrs . Delaforce , Farrah , Pilteret , Smith , and Highley , briefly reported from their localities , to the effect that , although they could not boast of what they were doing at the present time , still they hoped that ere long their localities would be in a more flourishing position . The majority were in favour of tracts as the best means of spreading Democracy . The Executive will next meet at the Crown and Anchor , Bermondsey , on the 20 th of August .

    The It Ed E Mpt Ion Society. A Public Di...

    THE It ED E MPT ION SOCIETY . A public discussion took place on Wednesday evening , July 30 , in the Music-hall , Leeds , on the merits of the Redemption Society . Dr . F . R . Lres appeared on behalf of the society , his opponent being Mr . Joah Malliuson , Wesleyan Association preacher . The discussion originated in some remarks which Mr . Mallinson made at a . camp meeting on Holbeck-moor on the previous Sunday , in which he repeatedly denounced , the society as the " redemption bubble . '' and stated his willingness to meet any memberof the society , at any time , and in any place , and there prove that the ' society was a delusion . Mr . Councillor Carter was called , to the chair , and introduced Mr . Mallinson to open the debate .

    Mr . Mallinson read a portion of the bill calling the meeting , and complained that his convenience as to t ' ime , & c , had not been consulted . He stated that he had called the - Redemption Society the " redemption bubble , " and he was there To prove it by figures . The bill stated " that the experiment of the society presented grave probabilities of success . " Now , probability meant likely to take place ; but he was prepared to show that the objects of the society could not be accomplished He statf-d that his main objection to the soeiely was "The inefficiency of the means to accomplish the end proposed . " He then proceeded to show that it would , take 370 members five years to raise £ 450 , each paying Id . per week , and receiving compound interest ; and

    that the expenses of paper , pens , ink , postage , placards , & c ., would swallow up nearly all that sum , leaving little or nothing to purchase land for allotments to the members . He also showed that eifiht collectors would in that time spend , in collecting this sum , t ^ me worrh £ 101 :. He knew that the cob lectors did not charge anything for their time thus spent , which \ v : is very generous on their part . He proceeded to explain to the meeting that no member could touch an acre of land as his own allotment until he had paid for it ; and in case of death there was no provision made in the rules for his widow or children ; they might be turned off the land which the husband and father bad paid for . This was the pith of his argument , that by

    subpenbing one penny per week , the working classes could not raise capital enough to buy land , build houses , workshops , & c , which were the . declared objects of the society . He stated that if they would place the scheme on the footing of charity , nnd honestly tell the workingmen when they paid their pennies not to expect any thing in return , be would have no objection to it ; but if any gi . ve their pence to the society in expectation of getting something in return , they would be disappointed . He then went on to show that the members would only be labourers on , and not proprietors of the land purchased by the society ; that the expectation of being

    proprietors was a delusion . That if they expected any provision to be made for them in sickness or age , or any provision for the education of ibeir cbil ' dren , it was also a delusion . He utatod that , the directors declined giving information on those points IV om prudential motives , to act upon the gullibility of John Bull ; be also stated that the tract issued by tho society a few yearn ago , called the l (

    Us menus , unjust iu its principles , and infidel in . its tendency . l ) r . !•' . It . Lees complained of Mr . Mallinson imputing evil motives to tho promoters of the society , by charging thorn with refusing to give curtain necessary information in order " to act . upon the gullability of John Hull , " and also by charging them with issuing : i tiact to " beguile the unwary . " He said it ill became a preacher of that ( iospel which advocates aehaiity wbich tbinkclb no evil to impute evil motives to men , who , iicctmlii g to Mr . Mallinnon' . s own "bowing , were devoting both their time and their money to the promotion of what they believed a Hood cause ; for it . muM be remembered that those

    collectors and directors were prohibited by law from re ceiving a Mingle penny for tho services wbich ( bey rendered to the society . lf ( asked if bis opponent , could try the beaits of men ; or if men sacrificing their time , and money week after week for nix years , as some had done , could be a pioof of guile . He procitcilnl to reply to tho charges of infidelity and Sabbath-breaking . He was no friend to working on Sundays . Ho supported the claims of thin hock ly , because he believed that by can ying out the principle of concert in the production Hud distribution of wealth , the labourer would be enabled to have two sabbatliN hi the week instead of one . He . showed that if it was lawful to relievo an ass on Sunday , it waa surely M ill M" K <) o < VV " en - A «' ' he contended that Mr . M . » llmson and tho whole fraternity of preachers were guilty of the very charge which he brought aguin-t tho » oowtjr yiz collecting money on tho J &> rd , 'a duy :

    they collected money on that day to send missionaries to uttermost parts of the earth , to improve the condition of the heathen , and he ( Dr . Lees ) had nothing to say against it ; but if it was right to collect pence on Sunday for foreign charity , where was the harm in collecting pence for works of benevolence at home ? The Christ himself was charged with Sabbath-breaking by the Pharisees of his day , and with apparently more reason than we are charged with it by the Pharisees of ours . "We collect pence on Sundays , because that is the only day on which we can find the labourer at home ; and the only day on which the collectors have time to do it . He then showed that Mr . Mallinson had confounded two things which were entirely different , namely , the main objects

    of the society—which were the establishment of communities , of which concert in labour and community of property should be the basis ; and . the allotment fund which was merely a side path for persons who wished to walk alone , and not the great highway of the society , on which the fraternal band progressed to happiness . That all the figures of his opponent proved nothing , because the penny per week was not paid for allotments of land , but the gift of the members" to carry on the experiment of organized labour and common property , which was now being made in Wales . That the only privilege which the subscribers had for their pence was , that by these payments they were eligible to be fleered to go to the Welsh community . That the allotment fund was a

    different affur , as he would show by the rules of the society . He then read the 8 th rul * > , which is as follows : — " Any member of this society who has paid up all his contributions , < £ rc , to the common stock or fund of this society , and being desirous to have a small allotment of land for his own uses and purposes , shall have the privilege of purchasing of the trustees such an allotment of land as shall consist of one or more shares , of half an acre each share , for which he shall pay the same price in proportion as the socirty gave for the whole , subject to the following conditions : —The society shall have the fitst choice of the land purchased . No member shall be allowed to have more than ten shares . Each member shall pay the whole of his

    purchasemoney before he shall be entitled to select and take possession of his allotment . And in case of the death of any member , the whole of the money shall be paid to his widow , or to whom he may direct by will , without any payment whatever , " & c . Now , this shows that my opponent ' s great objection is groundless , for there is nothing to prevent us giving a man his allotment when he has paid the full price of it . Again , Mr . Mallinson had no great objection to the scheme if it was one of chaiity , now it is in the first instance a work of benevolence . We roc what an amount of poverty arid crime has resulted from

    competition , and we will not blaspheme and say that poverty , the great tempter to vice , is inevitable ; we say it can be done away ; and as the competitive system of society has created ir , and cannot destroy it , and as there is only another system of society possible , n ;> mHy , concert or cooperation , we are now conducting an experiment to prove that poverty and all its pestiferous consequences can be destroyed by our system . Some of the members are already located , and tree from poverty and the murdering cares of competitive strife . A gentleman now on this platform has just returned fi om our estates in Wales ; and when I asked him the other day what be thought of the place and the people , his answer was : —

    " I have been there , and still would go ; ' T is like a little heaven below . " If we are well supported we may soon place a great number of our members in the same position . It is not true that the located members arc merely labourers ; they are the joint proprietors of the place , they have the use of it which is all the property that men should have in the soil : they cannot will it to their children , that is another matter . If a member of the community dies , his widow and children are provided with food , education and nil things necessary to comfort , the same as if the husband was alive . Contrast this with the provision made by that system suppoi ted by my opponent . In ours there is the same food for the widow and orphan as wo eat ourselves - the same clothing ; house accommodation , & e . ; the same education for the orphan as we give to our own children . In bis the Bastille or Union workhouse

    Mr . Mallinson only occupied a few minutes in his second speech . He stated that be could not understand the speech of Dr . Lees ; spoke of the failure of the land plan <> t Mr . 1 < . O'Connor , & c ., and advised emigration as a remedy for our social evils . This was received by a shout or disapprobation from the meeting . After the Chairman had order , Dr . l . ecs replied at considerable length , showinp that it was possible that Mr . Mallinson did not understand his Huceoh , on account of his inability to explain the objects ol the society but it also

    ; was possible that it was on account of Mr . MallinBon ' H want of comprehension The plan ol Mr . I- . O'Connor was as different from that of tho ludempt : on Society ns posnible . He guve a 1 . ngtby description of ancient and modem communities—ihe KsseneH —the early Christians — the Monks-the Jesuits , and the modern communities ' of Ainnini , to show thin pure community had never failed . He concluded by showing the nieificiency of emigration , pointing to Ireland aH Iiim proof , and advised theaudienco to stick to tho old ship and improve it .

    Visit To A North American I'Ll A La Nsit...

    VISIT TO A NORTH AMERICAN I'll A LA NSITJRY . Cloiifurl , Aii ( , riiri £ 10 , 1 HM . Sin , —The following extract from a letter of an Knglish liuly just returned from « twelvemonths ' tour in the United States , mid where « he him visited several cooperative communities , will , 1 think , bo in-. tere » ting to many of your readers , Your « f roHneptfully WiUUM Pa-UU .

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), Aug. 16, 1851, page 19, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_16081851/page/19/