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    456 flPBE it E A I) I & ^it^iiDAY/ ¦ •¦¦...

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    The Wesektm Sabtlament. Moot)At Was Sigi...

    Bay punish the Catholic youth of Ireland who are intended for the priesthood . ( Hear , hear . ) I contend that it would be not only unjust but impolitic to do so ; because you would thereby inflict an injury upon yourselves ; you would aggravate the very evil , one of the circumstances connected with which is the cause of the anger which is at present felt in many parts of the country . ( Hear , hear . ) I must say that this motion appears to me a motion of vengeance ( cheers ) , and , as a motion of vengeance , I think it impolitic . ( Hear , hear . ) And it is not only because it is a vindictive motion that I think it an impolitic motion , but because it ia at variance with all those principles of sound national policy upon which the Government and Parliament of this country has hitherto acted in regard to this question . It is upon that ground—that broad and general ground—that I am . prepared to resist the motion which is now about to be proposed to the House . His view was not altered by the offer of the Irish members ; he was opposed to inquiry ; there was no ground for it ; and it would be most unwise and inexpedient . The people of Ireland would look upon the success of the motion as the yielding of the House of Commons to what , were it not disrespectful , he would call a fanatical cry . If there were a division he should vote against the motion .

    Mr . Sebgeaht Mttbphy having moved the adjournment of the debate , a discussion arose upon that ; as it was faintly resisted by the Chajtcellob of the Excheqthee . Mr . Retkolds and Mr . Dbttmmond spoke . Then uprose Mr . Keogk . His object was one of personal explanation . Mr . Osborne had quoted a speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer , which the latter had seemed disposed not only to repudiate , but to convey that the fact that he had ever uttered such opinions had entirely escaped his memory . Now , lest there should be any mist ake upon the subject , he ( Mr . Keogh ) begged permission to read , from the authorized version of the debates , the passages to which his hon . friend had alluded . The present Chancellor of the

    Exchequer , speaking upon a , motion brought forward by the noble member for the City of Xondon ( Lord J . Russell ) , and referring to agitation in Ireland , used these words :- — " They heard a great deal of Ueform Associations , of Anti-Corn Law Leagues , Roman Catholic and Repeal Associations , Birmingham Unions , and other combinations of that kind . Now , those things were merely the consequence of the people taking the government of the country into their own hands be cause the Government would not administer matters themselves . " ( Hear , hear . ) Then going on to ask what the Irish question really was , the rierht-hon . gentleman said . ' i— " One said it was a

    physical question , another a spiritual . Now it was the absence of the aristocracy , then the absence of railroads . It was the Pope one day , potatoes the next . They had a starving population , an absentee aristocracy , and an alien church ( hear , hear ) , and , in addition , the weakest Executive in the world . " But the right hon . gentleman did not stop there . He proceeded : —" What would hon . gentlemen say if they were reading of a country in that position ? They would say at once , ' The remedy is revolution . ' But the Irish could not have a revolution ; and why ? Because Ireland was connected with another and a more powerful country . " ( Hear , hear ) . The right hon . gentleman was perfectly candid , and followed all his propositions to their necessary conclusion ; for he said , —

    " Then , what was the consequence ? The connexion with England thus became the cause of the present state of Ireland . If the connexion with England prevented a revolution , and a revolution were the only remedy , England , logically , was in the odious position of being the cause of all the misery in Ireland . " " Now , he begged the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer . That right hon . gentleman was now an English Minister . Here were the right hon . gentleman ' s words on the occasion to which ho was alluding , " What , then , was the duty of an English Minister ? " The right lion , gentleman was at that time engaged in hunting down a man who was a great English ALinistor . ( Cries

    of ' hear , hear , ' and cheers . ) He was then telling ot the Parliamentary middle-man , ' who bam boozled one party and plundered another . ' ( Loud cries of ' Hear , hoar . ' ) He was then calling upon this House , above all other earthly duties , to put an end for over to Parliamentary hypocrisy , ( Hear , hoar . ) Let the House put an end to the hypocrisy which would represent the hon . mombor ( Mr . Osborno ) as misrepresenting the sentiments uttered by the right hon . gentloman . ( Hoar , hoar . ) Here worn the final words : — « What was the duty of an English

    Minister P To effect by his policy all those changes which a revolution would do by force . ' ( Hear , hoar . ) Ho ( Mr . Koogh ) would- only put the moral to the talo which was drawn by the right non . gentleman himself , and addrosa the right hon . gentleman ' s words to tho benches opposite , when he said that ho was then advocating Tory principles , but , * tlioy woro not tho Tory princip les of thoso who would associate Tory ism with rostnotod commorco and with a continual assault on tho liberty of tho subject . '" ( Choors . ) The debate was thon adjourned ; and on tho motion of Mr . SrooNEit next Tuesday was fixed for resuming

    tho discussion . TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE . Miv Cowan opened tho adjourned dobato on Mr . Milner Gibson ' s motion on Wednesday . He entered at grofit length into tho grievances arising out of the operation of tho paper duty , and quoted a speech of Mr . Disraeli ' s in favour of repeal . Ho wns followed by Mr . Gladstone , who made the speech of tho day . Eeforring at tho outset to tho paper duty , ho said , ho fihould certainly bo heartily glad wfion tfio time ooine that it could bo repealed ; but in tho presont etato of tho revenue ho hoped the House would rally round tho Chancellor of tho Exchequer and sot ito face against any remission of taxation . But tho ciroumatftneefl connected with the

    operation of the paper duty were so interesting , tha 4 * the attention of the House might be usefully occupied by it at this moment . Especially he would referto the consumption / of paper in the printing of literary works . He then proceeded fully to discuss the subject in connexion with the pending dispute in the book trade . Premising that the public revenue ought not to be thrown awayifo * the profit of " interested combmations , " hesaid , " a most important struggle was now in progress in the book trade , " in . which a large number of booksellers in London and the country were attempting , " by restrictions of a most unwarrantable and imprudent character , to prevent the price of books , which is so enormously high , " from being lowered , and he

    thought the House should be aware what was the exact nature of the question . " The publishers of books are in the habit of supplying the retail traders at a fixed price , that price being usually ( with the exception of the case of wholesale purchases ) at a discount of 25 per cent * upon the publishing price . The custom of the retail trade is , not to grant the public who purchase a greater discount than 3 . 0 per cent ,, leaving 15 for the retail trade . Some retail traders say they can give a greater discount than 10 per cent ; but then this combination steps in and says , ' You shall give no greater discount than 10 per cent , to the public , and , if you do not come under an engagement to that effect , we b y combining among ourselves , wifl exclude you from the trade in books ; that is , deprive you of the means of livelihood in the vocation to which you have devotedyourself . This restriction

    is , in my view , a great evil . ( Hear , hear . ) ^ 1 do not pretend to compare the price of new publications with that of articles ofbodily subsistence in regard to the urgency of the questions they raise ; but I do say , that it is a verj great evil that the price of books should be raised above what may be called the natural and legitimate amount . ( Hear , hear . ) And further , I venture to say , that the state of the book-market , except so far as it is partially mitigated by what are called cheap publications , is a disgrace to the present state of civilization , ( Loud cries of ' Hear , hear . ' ) The controversy now going on with certain retail traders , who in my opinion deserve great credit for the energy with which they have struggled against the is but

    power they have endeavoured to cope with , a part of a system . ( Hear . ) I wish the House were aware of the facts in regard to the production and the sale of books in this country . The truth is , that monopoly and combination have been so long applied to the whole subject , that they really have gone near , —I do not say to the extinction of the trade , But to reducing it to its minimum ( Hear . ) We have a country that has by far the largest educated class in the world— [ A Member— ' There- is Americ a ^ ' ]—! was thinking of Europe ; but , even taking America into account , weliave a country in which the class that ought to be purchasers of new books is the largest in the world ; I mean the educated class in that

    senge—the men in possession of such fortune as ought to make them the natural purchasers of new publications . That class in this country is counted by twenties , and by fifties , I might almost say by hundreds of thousands . But what is the fact with regard to the state of the bookmarket ? It is , that with the exception of certain very highly-esteemed and distinguished authors—with the exception of such cases as Mr . Macaulay ' s History of Enqtand—what are called new publications , not only in a major ity of cases , but in an enormous majority , scarcely ever pass a sale of 50 O copies . An immense proportion of those that are published do not pay their expenses at all ; and I believe the proportion of them passing the sale of

    500 copies in this country , with its enormous means for the cheap production of books , and for supplying an extensive demand for them , is not more than something like 5 per cent . ; or , at any rate , not more than from l-20 th to l-10 th of the wholo number produced . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , what is the consequence ? It is a matter within our personal experience . The purchase of new publications is scarcely attempted by anybody individually . ( Hear , hoar . ) You go into the houses of your friends , and , unless in tho case of books for which they have a professional want that must bo satisfied , or unless they happen to bo persons of extraordinary wealth , you do not find copies of now publications upon their tables , purchased for themselves ; but you find something from tho circulating library , or somothing from the book-club . ( Hear , hear . ) But , what arc these book-clubs and book-societies , which

    are engaged , with such an enormous loss of time and waste of machinery , in the distribution of books throughout the country P GPhoy are tho ingenious expedients which , under tho pressure or necessity , men have adopted to mitigate tho monstrous evils they experience from tho enormously high price of books , and satisfy in some degree their own domand for that description of mental food . ( Hear , hear . )" Ho thon showed how ono combination generated another ; for as the booksellers combined against tho publio , so the printers combined against the booksellers ; and he retorted upon some compositors , who asked him b y memorial to support Mr . Gibson , that while they professed anxiety for the spread of knowledge , they wore themselves in combination to keep up the price of printing in London , f \ _> 4 < V-t &>« -I a «\ dm M'tlmtv * IvM * ^ w r * k £ \ A r T * % mr f \ Wi rir f I v ^^ L 4 "IM w"it * Mrvr v ^ s * w * «**« wm 4 *

    above tho price at which it could bo executed anywhere else . " Now I hopo , " he continued , " whonovor the Chancollor of tho Exchequer may bo in a condition to propose to tho Houso , a remission of tho papor duty , thoso matters will bo well looked into ( hear , heat' ) , and that wo shall take euro that tho public rovonuo is not given away for the purposes of facilitating or promoting the extension of thoao combinations . ( Hear , hoar . ) Tho Government , no doubt , can do a groat doal for the relief of this immense evil ; individuals cannot do it . If a particular person who has a work to publish chooHos to say , I will fix the price at one-half tho ordinary amount , ' ho merely makos a victim of himself , without acting in tho loast upon tho state of tho market , or acting sensibly upon tho demand for his own book , because tho consequence of a bad system has been to generate a machinery adapted to it , ana book clubs and

    societies are not sensibly affected by the price of a book hei * i » more or less , ( hear , hear , ) and the operation of the natirr » J and healthy play of the demand . vrhiehought to regulate the price , and of the principle that a book ought to Befffiw what it will fetch , neither more nor less , is totally inter cepted by the system which has been so long in action * * ¦ He next referred to the efforts made by successive govern ments to do something for promoting the book trade bv concluding treaties of international copyright , first & th Prussia , and afterwards with some parts of Germany and Franco . They had . attempted to vindicate the rights of English ajithors in the colonies , but , owing to the monstrous price of English books , had been , he believe d " obliged to relax the lawi . ' ¦ - He then terminated his remarks as follows : — " I believe there is hardly any article wnicni to

    on vne pumic are qaiiea upon pay a price that bears so high a proportion to the actual cost of production as in the case of books . ( Hear , hear . ) But the actual cost of production itself is not a proper standard , because that cost is enormously enhanced , more perhaps on books than on any other commodity , by the restricted nature of the trade and the narrowness ^ of the circle of demahd . ( Hear . ) I do conceive that in this country we have the greatest facilities for the production of cheap books . ( Hear , hear . ) Under the disadvantages which the paper duty imposes , it is quite plain , from the efforts which have been made by enterprising and successful publishers , that even now we can producequality considered ; as cheaply as any country

    , in the world . ( Hear . ) I am convinced , if the finances of the State would permit you to resign the paper duty , you ought to be the cheapest producers of books in the world ( Hear , hear . ) But while , as producers , you have the greatest advantages , so as to tie scope of the market and the demand for books , you have the materials for greater advantages than any other country . The state of facts ought to he this : — -books ought to be cheaper here , and the sale larger , than in anymother countrywhatever . Gn the contrary , the state of facts is , that so far as new publications are concerned , the demand for books is narrower , and the price higher , than in any other country in the world .

    ( Hear , hear } I hope the House-Will forgive me for drawing attention to this important and interesting subject . ( Hear , hear . ) I am happy to see that good sense and pubHc feeling have already acted so powerfully upon that intelligent and respectable body , the London publishers , as to induce them to refer this matter to arbitration . ( Hear , hear . ) I trust , when that combination breaks down , all other combinations affecting the book trade will break down also . ( Hear , hear . ) I am sure the judgment expressed here will act materially upon public opinion , and through that upon the book trade ; and I do trust , that before a great length of time , the circumstances to which I have adverted , and which I say again are a scandal to the country , will disappear . ( Hear , hear ) .

    Sir Wieliam Ci « a . t then put in a word for the two other duties which hindered the spread of knowledge ; Mr . Mowatt , Mr . Reynolds , and Mr . j . L . Bioabdo , followed all on the same side . . The last named gentleman vent into the case between the Board of Inland Revenue and Mr . Turner , the proprietor of the StoJce * upon-Trent Monthly Narrative of Current Events Mr . Timra had menaced Mr . Turner with a prosecution , and when Mr . Turner ' s solicitor wrote to the Board stating that he was instructed to receive any process , Mr . Tinun replied that he had no instruction * to proceed ! Mr . Ricardo very properly called this an act of the greatest tyranny . He also elicited from the Attorney-General the avowal that he intended to prosecute these monthly publications .

    The Attobney-GenebaIi described the course pursued with respect to unstamped papers . « If the Stamp-office found that there was a publication issued without a stamp which they thought ought to be subjected to a duty , they instituted proceedings against the parties , and that , very frequently , without any communication with the law officers of the Crown , -who would know nothing whatever of the proceedings until the bnew were placed in their hands for the purpose of conducting the prosecution before tho court . Where any donm existed as to the liability of parties , tho opinions ot w » law officers might bo asked , but it rarely happonoa tn » s their opinions were consulted before tho matter was ripe for trial . " . _ ,. . He was decidedly of opinion that a special verdict ought to be obtained iu the case of the Household Narrative . ,., . „ " Ho begged distinctly to say that the ^ course which he snouiu

    had pointodout as the ono which he w « vv" ~ boon already pursued ; that another information had oeen filed ; that that information would result in a speoiai ver diet , which was distinct from a special case , a _ f'P ' *' £ T terminating in tho court whore it was decided , whiie » ( special verdict admitted of an appeal . To show how e * tremoly desirous they were to have the question * wwj raised and disposed of , thoro being somo dispute •» » VJ torms in which tho special verdict should bo < "ftW £ V ' had boon arranged between tho junior fW ^ Jf ttat Crown and the counsel on the port of tho fof 0 ™*™* ' ™ ^ Mr . Baron Martin Bhould Bottle tho terms of tho epecu . verdict , ho being ono of the judges who dooidod in mvoiu of the dofondants" * »

    . . ., . Mr . MoGbegou and Mr . Htmis addressed ww House amid cries of " Divide ! " Mr . Keb **** a Dorbyito , had voted onco with Mr . Gibson , now intended to vote against him . He was not prop * to vote block white , but he should vote agu ^ w resolutions . Mr . Wabxey said the hon . momW ' voted for the resolution when Lord John « U 8 SJJ ^ in power , but against it when lord Derby w »» place . Was not that voting black was white 7

    456 Flpbe It E A I) I & ^It^Iiday/ ¦ •¦¦...

    456 flPBE it E A I ) I & ^ it ^ iiDAY / ¦ •¦¦ - ¦'• ¦ ' ' . ' ' : ¦ ¦ ¦¦ - ¦ " - ' ' ' ' ' ¦ .... _¦! ¦ . ' . _ . ' ¦¦_ ' ......... ! - j . ! ' i Vr * ' ;; " ^ ' ""*^* ' *""' - ~ ' '" ; - ") . ' ; i r'Vi ' irij ¦ ¦ ; ¦ - , "• ' ¦ ' ¦ " ^ . '•' - . "' . ¦/

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), May 15, 1852, page 4, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_15051852/page/4/