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    No. 429, June 12, 1858.J TH E L BADE H. ...

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    GOVERNMEHT OF INDIA. The House resolved ...

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    No. 429, June 12, 1858.J Th E L Bade H. ...

    No . 429 , June 12 , 1858 . J TH E L BADE H . \ "¦ , _ _ 555 ¦ 1 ¦ " " " ~ " ' " .- ¦ - ¦ - _ ¦ . _ _^_ , ^ -

    Governmeht Of India. The House Resolved ...

    GOVERNMEHT OF INDIA . The House resolved itself into a committee to consider the remaining resolutions regarding-the Government of India , commencing with the third resolution : — That , in order to assist such Minister of the Crown in the discharge of his duties , it is expedient that a Council be appointed of not less than twelve , nor more than eighteen members . " . Mr . Gladstone moved , as an amendment to this resolution , to substitute the following : — " That , regard being had to the position of affairs in India , it is expedient to constitute the Court cf Directors of the East India Company , by an act of the . present session , to be a Council for administering the government of India in the name of her Majesty , under the superintendence of such responsible Minister until the end of the next session , of Parliament . " He insisted on the impossibility of permanently settling the government of India while the war in that country continues on its present extended scale , and that the evils of crude and hasty legislation ¦ would infinitely outweigh those of postponement , "if they could say now that the war was quite over , they might feel themselves able to deal with the question upon what revenue the Indian debt is to be charged . Our tenure of India and present difficulties prevent us from counting upon the revenue" of India as an elastic fund which could be burdened to any extent . The war could not be carried on for less than ten or fifteen millions a year ; and would it be wise to let this go on under the regulation that the expenses of the war should be charged only upon the revenue of India ? By the new Government , the liability in regard to the Indian debt-would be altered , and they could not get rid of this question upon the ground that the creditor must take the responsibility of the security . He believed that the debt of India is mixed up with the finance of this conntry ; YTTonm Tta ' nv \ T * l » n iin / v-matifiitinfisil -nnsiHnvi wllir . Vi tlift

    Crown would acquire , by the proposed change , over Indian finances and the Indian army , for purposes which are not local , deserve attention . Parliament limits the amount of the Queen ' s force , and the expenditure upon that force to be employed in India ; but there is another army which is to be handed over to the Crown with power as regards the number and the expense . He would , not allow this to be done by a definite measure . It was a groundless and shadowy notion that the Minister of the Crown might be invested with the fullest power because he was to be responsible to the House of Commons . " ( Zf < sar , hear . ') Lord Stanley feared ihat the military operations would be long arid harassing , and would involve a considerable sacrifice of human lives ; bat he did riot see why that should impede our efforts to improve the government of India . Mr . Gladstone , it seemed to him , had confounded two . things essentially distinct—the administration of Indian affairs in India , and the general superintendence and control exercised in England . As to the reorganization of the native army ( to which subject Mr . Gladstone had adverted ) , an inquiry - was about to commence , if it had not already commenced , and , when that inquiry was completed , the results would be made known to the House . Of this he was quite sure , that , if any Government attempted at once to deal with all the questions relating to India and embodied them in one measure , that measure would not be passed this session . The right lion , gentleman wished to constitute the Court of Directors such a council as would sit to the end of next session only . Such a course would place the council in a false position ; it would paralyze their zeal and efficiency ; and they would become a discredited body -with the public . He must dissent from the amendment .

    A long discussion ensued , in which the amendment was supported l > y Mr . Monckton Milnes , Mr . Liddell , Mr . CuaiMiNG Bruce , Colonel Sykes , and Mr . Bovn , T ,, and opposed by Sir G . C . Lewis , Mr . Lowe , Mr . A . Mills , and I \ Jr . Dandy Skvmour . In the courso of the debate , Mr . Hknry Drummon d made a very remarkable speech , which , however , was not received -with the laughter which usually greets his addresses . Ho said he objected to both the Government bills , for neither touched the real question at issue . He would now say , without equivoque , that , unless the Government of India henceforth should be for the benefit of the people of India , he hoped it would pass out of the hands of the English people , Up to a recent period , the natives had been treated by us with the utmost haughtiness , nay , scorn and cruelty . The English are proud of their iirwium out

    -acy ; many ot tno Hindoos can trace their ancestry much farther back into antiquity than our nobility . How could they brook such treatment as they had had to suffer ? Such conduct is the surest method of inciting to rebellion . " There is an . old Italian pro . verb which has its representative in moat languages , and the principle of which is well known in India : ' Yongeanco sleeps long , but never dies- ' The Indian land tenure , is mixed up with religion ; it is rooted in the affections of proprietors , even moro tlian tenures in England tho most nnulogous to the Indian system ; and yet wo have sent out troops of lawyers to act aside tho old , domestic institutions , and substitute for them as u nostrum those which arc entirely foreign to tho habits and aspirations of the people . { I / ear , hear . ) However , tho -way to pacify India i » to issue a proclamation taking possession of tlic country in tho Queen's name ; hut that proclamation should also contain a declaration that tho

    government of India will henceforth be carried on for the -welfare of the people of India , and that the instruments by which this government is to be carried on shall be selected from among the Indians themselves . " On a division , the original motion was carried by 265 to 116 . Mr . Gladstone ' s amendment was consequently lost . Mr . Roebuck then rose to move an amendment , which he anticipated would be at first rejected by a large majority . His motion wa 3 against the proposition that the Minister for India should have a Council to assist him . The question they had to deal with was the Home Government of India , and he thought this could be best conducted by a Minister who should be alone responsible . The argument against this plan was that no man should have such a charge committed to him , and the argument was a forcible one . But he would have the Minister responsible to Parliament . If he had a Council , the Indian Government would really be irresponsible ; and . the fitness of " old Indians" to deal with Indian questions was more than doubtful . —Lord Stanley observed that this question was a narrow one . Only two grounds of objection could be taken to the appointment of a Council : one was the expense , which was hardly worth consideration ; the other was , as Mr . Roebuck argued , that it would diminish the responsibility of the Minister . This would depend upon the relations between the Minister and the Council . The latter would be bound to give advice to the Minister , and he would be bound to hear the advice , but would not be bound to take it ; and , whether he took it or rejected it , he would equally act upon his own responsibility . Whether termed Councillors or Clerks , there would always be persons to advise the Minister . —Mr- Gumming Bruce rose to make some remarks on the AfFghan war ; but was interrupted by loud cries of " Divide !" - ^ -The amendment was then necratived .

    Mr . Lindsay then moved to amend the resolution by inserting the -words , " and that the first Council of India consist of the present Court of Directors . " He did not propose that they should retain their present powers , but that they should have the powers of the Council to be appointed . By this expedient many difficulties would be avoided , and there would be a body competent to : advise tie Minister . —Lord Stanley thought it would be premature to accept this amendment , as the committee had not settled for how long a period the appointments of members of Council were to be held , and the members of the -Court of Directors could not be asked to accept these appointments , without telling them whether they were to be held for life , or a term of years , or at pleasure . —The amendment was negatived . A discussion of considerable length . arose upon the latter part of the resolution , that the Council consist of not less than twelve nor more than eighteen members , which ended in . the word " less" being omitted ; and in that state the resolution was left , the Chairman being then ordered to report progress . The Clerks of Petty : Sessions ( Ireland ) Bill was withdrawn , and , after some formal business had been transacted , the House adjourned at a quarter past one . Tuesday , June 3 th . THE ISLAND OF JERSEY . In the House of Lords , Lord Cranwoeth presented a petition from 250 inhabitants of the island of Jersey , stating that the pleadings in the Royal Court arc carried on in the French language ; that a largo portion of the population , being British-born subjects , do not understand that language ; and that consequently , persons engaged in suits in the court cannot nderstand

    u , toe proceedings . Tho petitioners prayed that the Royal Court may be abolished , and three paid judges appointed ; that in every suit in which natives of the United Kingdom are engaged , the proceedings may be carried on in English ; and that a commission may be appointed to inquire respecting tho scignorial rights . COLONIZATION OP INDIA . The Earl of Ai , BE » tAitr ., E gave notice that , on Monday , the 21 st inst ., he will move that there be laid upon the table of the House the first report of the Select Committeo of tho other House on the colonization of India . He also gavo notice that he will call tho attention of the House to the vast importance of an extensivo settlemon t of British-born subjects in India , with a view to the promotion of tho moral and material interests oi time

    country , ana na security against future insurrection . Tho report of amendments on tho Chancery Amendment Bill was brought up and received . The Stamp Duty on Passports Hill was read a third time , and passed . OOMPKTIT 1 VB EXAMINATION . Lord Lyttklton asked the Government whether they intend to carry any further tho system of competitive examination for appointments in tho Civil Service . Mo called attention to a resolution of tho House of Commons in favour of open and unrestricted competition , and remarked that , as tho competition is not open , but limited to persons nominated by tho authorities , tho system of examination in tho civil service is in direct contravention of tho vote of tho other House of Parliament . —Tho . Karl of Ui-nutY stated that in the Treasury , tho Board of Trade , and tho Customs , no

    appointment had been made to the junior class of . clerks , except on examination . The principle was quite novel , and he would , express no opinion adverse to it . But It was a system which the Government must watch with great attention , as in many cases persons who had gained . In the examination afterwards proved utterly incapable . He cited three cases in which cadets who passed the military examination turned out unfit for the service : one gentleman , it was discovered , could not be taught to ride , the second objected to . the ' drill , and the third refused to live at Woolwich . Some superior men did . not come out of an examination so well as others with inferior qualifications ; and he thought the system should be extended -with exceeding circumspection . For some years it must be an experiment only , and , though it was easy to extend it , it would be very difficult to restrict it again should it be found unsuccessful . — Earl Granville believed that the system is working very well . Cases of failure like those mentioned would be just as likely to occur under the old mode of malting the appointments . —The Earl of Ellenborough objected to the examination for the Indian service , saying that it had given appointments to persons of inferior position , who , on arriving in India , appeared to think they had done all that could be required of them in passing the examination . —Earl Grey condemned the system , of examination , which would be sure in time to lead to > the practice of " cramming , " which forces the memory at the expense of the judgment and other higher faculties . He believed such examinations had deteriorated the public service in Prance . —Iiord Wodehouse : spobe in favour of the examination system , and Lord Redes-*> ale suggested that physical qualifications might well form part of the examination for military appointments . Thus , cadets niight take a comparative ride across country . m « vn nv A vr ^^ . rwin A ntn j * wtm- » »^ mr A . nvf ^ vyt / n ^^ rmntm m' * « ¦ ¦ i m «* ' uuiv 1 iwi ? io

    * xue < ouAVJ ^ M'i ^ . ixus ^ , —— - ja . jeiIja .. vw n m a 1 * 1 KVrvlyA « The Bishop of Oxford gave notice that he should , on . the following Thursday , present a petition from Jamaica , relative to Spanish slavery , and call attention to the subject . —Lord Brougham implored the Government to urge on Spain the duty of extirpating the slave trade- — a result which had been effected in Brazil by the firrnness and good faith of the Government of Portugal . —¦" The Earl of Clarendon inquired if the Government could lay before the House any information on the alleged proceedings of our cruisers on the coast of Cuba , of which the reports were exciting great uneasiness , from the preparations said to be making uy the Government of the United States to prevent what it regarded as equivalent to the exercise , of the right of search . That right the United States had never conceded ; but there was n o doubt the American flag had been employed to cover the slave trade . The Earl of Malmesbcry could not give any official information on the subject ; but he believe ! the accounts had been greatly exaggerated . Still , he feared some acts had been committed not j ustified by international law , nor by any treaty between this country and the United States . Tho American flag had been constantly used to cover the slave trade ; but , from a coversation he had had with the American Minister , he believed that both countries are agreed as to the desirability of preventing the practice . Orders had been sent out to the officers of our squadron in the American waters ; ana he felt satisfied that no repetition of the obnoxious acts was likely to occur . —The Earl of Hardwicke remarked that , if the statements made were correct , the officers had exceeded their orders . The subject then dropped , and the House adjourned at a quarter to seven o ' clock .

    CHURCH KATES ABOLITION BILL . At a morning sitting of tho House of Commons , on tho order for resuming tho adjourned debate on the third reading of the Church Rates Abolition Bill , Sir Jqjeu * Tkelawny spoke in favour of the measure , which vm » opposed by Sir Bkook . Bridges , who moved to . defer the second reading for six months . —The amendment was seconded by Mr . Packe . —Mr . Akro'kd contended that , though tlie bill did an act of justice to Dissenters , it perpetrated an injustice to the Church . Moraover , it enabled Dissenters to vote for churchwardens—a right which should rest with tho congregation . IJe could not allow that there was any necessity for handing over 300 , O 0 ( U a year to tho landholders , —Sir Ja > iks Graham said he desired to soo some reasonable compromise ; but , all such having been , rejected , he must regard it stoouJtie

    me question as . nau a uecidqcl objection to pew rents , and he also objectod to exempting Dissenters as Dissenters—a proposal which , by branding them , would tend to tho perpetration of religions difference ^ , and would prevent their return to tho bosom of the Church . A remedy had occurred to him . He thought it would bo wise to relax tho Statute of Mortmain , and enable the owners of land in feo and tenants for life to charge their estates for tho maintenance of tho parish church . Hitherto , the Church had had no reason to repent her reliance upon the voluntary principle ; she had never yet called upon her moinbcrm u > contribute to her necessities and found them slow to respond . He had always resisted tho abolition of church rates ; but ho could not fight tho battle to the last extremity . Doing ready to make a concession for tho sake of peaco , ho Hhould vote for tho bill . —Mr . Uall also spoke in favour of tho measure .

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), June 12, 1858, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_12061858/page/3/