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    October 9, 1852.] THE LEADER. * 959

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    John Jmtlgtllt At Belfast. Taking .Ulvan...

    them . The dinner came off last Monday , under the ^ residence of Mr . Grimshaw , and attended by nameous local lights , beside Mr . Sharman Crawford and Mr Kirk , M . P- Of course the sole point of interest in the evening was the speech of Mr . Bright ; from which we proceed to give some of the most striking passages . After thanking them for the honour done to Free Trade principles , and to the party- with whom he worked , Mr . Bright gave his views of Irish character . " Now I am one of those who have never joined at all in the various charges which have been brought against the population of this island . I am one who , from all my experience of the people of Ireland , am inclined to

    believe that , with certain variations , as in all countries , and among all people , the population have probably as many good qualities as are to be found among the people of any other country ( hear , hear , hear . ) I don't believe that the hundreds and thousands of men who travel from the far West of your country to all the counties of England and Scotland , to obtain a few weeks' well-paid labour , are men out of which nothing can be made ( cheers . ) I met a number of these men the other day in the county of Mayo , who had lately landed at one of your ports , and walked across the island . I saw them at their fast meeting , before separating to return to their respective homes , and I never saw a happier and more delighted

    class of people . They seemed to be rejoicing m the results of their industry in England ( hear , hear)—they seemed to be glorying in their economy and prudence ( cheers ) . I entered into conversation with many of them , and I found that they had brought home sums averaging from 4 Z . to 71 . and 81 ., as the results of their savings of the late harvest ( hear , and cheers . ) Now , nothing can persuade me—nothing at least that I have yet seen—that men who do this , and do it year after year—that men who make such extraordinary struggles that they may pay their rent , and keep their families and themselves in some degree of comfort and independence—ought not to be , and may not be , in a far higher and better position than they are to be found at the present time ( applause ) . Probably , too , what we observe with regard to that portion of your population which has emigrated to the United

    States is , on this point , still more striking and conclusive . It is stated , on good authority , that in the year 1851 , scarcely , if at all , less than a million sterling was sent from the United States to this country by Irishmen settled there , either to fetch their friends and relatives from Ireland to America , or to add to their comfort at home ( hear , hear , and loud applause . ) Well , that is a fact which , when men declaim against the Irish population , they ought to bear in mind , because it is , I think , such as has no parallel in the history of any country in the world ( loud applause . ) In my opinion , it is a conclusive answer to the thousands of charges that are made against the population of this part of the kingdom . I have , however , taken other means to ascertain ' something of the character of this people ; for I have gone over a very considerable number of the large drainage works carried out under the Board of Works in the West of Ireland , and

    I have found that where there was steady work , the Irishmen who , at first , were not able to earn at piece-work more than 3 d ., or 4 d , or 6 d . a day , soon became ablo workmen , and able to realize Is . 6 d . to 2 s ., or even more , per day ( hear , hear . ) I met a gentleman , who never should be mentioned without respect in Ireland—I mean Mr . Dargan ( great , cheering )—and if the honours that monarchy bestows were worth much , or bestowed as they ought to be , they would not be given to the bankrupt drones of your country , so much as to the captains nnd generals of industry , like Mr . Dargan ( continued cheering . ) I asked Mr . Dargau what ho found in his intercourse with tho

    Irish . I heard that ho had paid 6000 / . a day in wages for five years together , and as lie passed from one part of the country to another , engaged in these contracts , ho did not carry his staff of workmen with him , ; but employed those ho found in each district ; and thus ho must have got an intimate knowledge of tho people . Whut lie said to me was this— ' Depend upon it , tho people of Ireland want only tho discipline of steady industry , and they will givo as good a return in labour for tho wages paid them ns any people in the world' ( cheers . ) And I have no doubt , that Sir John Maeneill , nnd Mr . M'Corinick , oruny othor gontloman engaged in employing the people would coincide in tho testimony I have now quoted . "

    Having thus spoken of tho people , Mr . Bright waa naturall y led to tho muster grievance — the lund question . "There- is n great evil in Ireland not found at all to tho same extent in England . In Ireland the land is not posni ! BM ( id by tho peoplo . They live upon it—or rather they Wiy bo Hiiid to Hojourn upon it—( hoy walk over it , they grow potatoes upon it—they drag out a miserable existence upon it , lint they do not possess it . And 1 believe that in thnt , single fact—and a groat economical fact i ( , is—is to bo ouiid tho true secret why the peoplo of Ireland—or at ><» anl , its rural population , ' has made less progress during

    . ,, lllHl ' <>»« hundred and fifty years than tho peoplo ol ' ''" g land and Scotland . We are not responsible , in our fj'iiiiiration , for tho fact that tho land is not . as much lividod aniorigMfc tho people as wo could wish . Wo are not r « H |> onniblo lor tho grout confiscations that , look place from y >« Inn , ) of ICliasabcif . il to that , of William ; and I think J' <> id Chu-o Hays that tho land was confiscated tvtico over during that period . But . wo are responsible for that during ° 'jf ; tune , wo have contributed to tho maintenance of laws which havo perpetuated nearly all tho evils which must , , (! a''iHon from tho confiscations of earlier times ( loud clioors .

    And ho briefly traced this history of tho peoplo in nation to the haul until ho euino to our own time , whon , Huia ho , tho-popultttion , devoid of a middle cIuhh ,

    consists almost of abject paupers on the one hand , and bankrupt nobles on the other . " Now , it is not an uncommon thing in the House of Commons to attribute all the misfortunes of Ireland to the famine . They forgot that before the famine there were two millions of your people who had no regular means of subsistence , and that the Devon Commission speaks of over two millions who were dwelling in hovels it was a scandal for a people to dwell in . But the famine came , and after it the break up of society , and the Encumbered Estates Court , which was wanted long before the famine—wanted even when Mr . Sinclaire was among the volunteers ( laughter ) . But so it was in Great Britain . When Catholic emancipation is granted , the alternative is

    civil war . When reform is passed , the alternative is revolution . When eighty thousand slaves are emancipated in the West Indies , the alternative is immediate insurrection ( hear , hear , hear . ) And when the Com Laws were abolished—althoug h men were at work for that end eight or ten years who had convinced the majority of the people , still Parliament , with aristocratical opposition , did not succumb till the famine visited this island , and struck down hundreds and thousands of your people ( loud cheers ) . But the Encumbered Estates Court has come at last , and is probably doing more for the interests of Ireland , in giving an impulse to industry and making the country worth living in , than all the laws that were passed since the Union ( loud cheers . ) It is odd that , though often

    proposed and opposed , for Lord John Russell was alarmed , having a hostile House of Commons , and I must say that the wisest measures introduced there are most stoutlyopposed by men from this part of Ireland ( laughter ) , it is odd that now everybody acknowledges the benefit of that law . The other day I passed from Enniskillen to Ballyshannon , and on the south side of the road , about half a mile from Lough Erne , I saw a range of land , some of which may be called mountain land . For twelve miles it is in the best state for draining , in fact , it invites somebody to come and open a little sluice , to let the water run down into the lake ( hear , hear , and laughter ) . But for twelve iniles that land is nearly all covered with rushes . I believe that land , if it were put into farms and possessed

    by fifty owners , and properly managed would , if tenanted , pay three times its present rent , and give six times as much produce as can now be got out of it . That land belongs to the Marquis of Ely . I know nothing of the Marquis of Ely—whether he is in the Encumbered Estates Court , or whether he has ample means ; but I do say that that land is a disgrace to its owner ( cheers . ) I believe , that , in a natural and right state of law , such a condition of things could not exist ( cheers ) . The object of the Encumbered Estates Court is to put the land into the hands of the people . But we still maintain a law by which land , by death , comes into possession of an oldest son ( hear , hear ) . There is an odious system by which a man—be he knave or fool , stuffed up with pride , or filled with

    prejudicemay pass his hand to a deed , even just on the point of death , and decide for two or three generations what must be done for ten or twenty miles of country . That law of entail does all it can to bind this generation ; the law of entail appears to me , in the manner in which it is acted upon , to bind the generation which is living to tho generation that is dead , and it binds us to all the faults , tho pride and the prejudices of the dead ( cheers ) . I would have the law of primogeniture abolished ( cheers )—leaving to all men the right to divide their property as they like amongst their heirs , but if they die without a will , then the law should do that which morality alone would sanction , and should divide the property of the father equally amongst his children ( loud cheers . )"

    Ho entered deeply into the religious question , and the relation of the three churches to the state . " Animosities , arising out of religious differences , prevail to an exceeding extent in this country . I have met with many men who tell me that such is not the case , and they point to this man and to that man , and to three or four other men , perhaps of different religions , who , they say , caro nothing at all about what their neighbours think . But I have formed a very different opinion ; I have boon in many families , and I am thoroughly convinced that thero is scarcely a social or political question which is not affected by these religious differences ; and , therefore , the whole social atmosphere in your country is biassed by t . hi . s very thing . ( Ifear , hear , hear . ) This country , at present ,

    possesses something over six millions of people ; you have three Churches , which occupy the main proportion of the peoplo . Tho Catholic is tho most numerous of theso ; then thero avo the Church of tho Establishment and tho Presbyterian Church , which , though numerous , are not so numerous as the Catholic . Tho Established Church , which , 1 suppose , is not much more numerous than tho ' Presbyterian—soino have stated that , the latter is tho larger of the two ; at least , in the north of Ireland , tho Presbyterian in in a very considerable majority—tho Nktablishod Church has an available annual income—I will

    not say no largo a sum as it is estimated at by somo authorities —which I will take at 400 , 000 / . or 500 , 000 / . Some mako it twice that , but it does not servo my purpose the moro to have the figure greater . That sum now in worth twenty years ' purchase , or about 10 , OOO , 0 O 0 / . NterIing ; and Mint is Mi ' o sum which I . ho Slato actually lias granted for tbo keeping of n Church for tho purpose of its religion , and with tin especial object , of being a bulwark against the progress of tho Church of Itoiuo , and of converting tho Catholics to Protestantism . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , Tot an dismiss from our minds any feelings that may oxist , there about , theso Churches : lot . us look . tit tho

    matter an wo would at a question of arithmetic , or a iiuohtion of science , and with our passions imoxcifctl . ( Ilour , hear , unil cheers . ) Heoauso tho time has como when everybody should get rid of passion in considering tho condition of Ireland . Tho Presbyterian Church is / similarly Bupporteil by a grant , of 40 , 000 / . annually , which , at , twenty years' purchase , amounts to , wo will say , a million Btorlinc ; and tho Catholic Church nu » 2 ( 5 , 0007 ., which , ou

    the same calculation , would amount to 600 , 0007 . in round numbers . Now , if the principle of religious liberty be admitted at all , this would seem , so far as we see of it , to be a sad sort of an arrangement . If the Catholic religion is a legal religion , and if it is not a crime to be a Catholic —and the law has admitted long ago it is not— -then it appears to me that the arrangement is singular indeed ; for it appears that 500 , 000 ? . are granted every year as a bulwark against the Roman Catholics , and for the purpose of converting Catholics to Protestantism , whilo

    26 , 000 / . are granted annually to the Catholics for the purpose of teaching men the Catholic religion , in order that they again may teach it to others . ( Laughter and cheers . ) Then , the Presbyterians , who , I know , are looked upon with great favour in high quarters when they do not meddle with dangerous questions —( hear , hear , hear ) —they have a sum granted them each year larger than the Catholics have , although they do not form more than one-eighth of the number of persons professing the Catholic religion . ' '

    Comparing this with the Scotch Church , he continued : — " But in Ireland it unfortunately appears that the Established Church never was the church of the people or the nation- —( hear , hear)—that it never was established here by their votes , by their consent or their will , in any shapo whatever ; that it was established by what was then , and I wish it were not so much so now—a foreign country , and a foreign and conquering power . That Church has , unfortunately , been allied through all the time since its establishment with a course of political action which has not been considered favourable , or liberal , or just , to the greater portion of the population of Ireland . ( Cheers . ) It is a part of the original mistake that this country was to

    be allied to England by force —( hear , hear)—that we were to be two kingdoms united under one Crown , by force of a garrison holding a particular form of religion , which was prevalent in England . ( Hear , hear . ) Now , I am not one of those who think it necessary that the people of a country should be of the same religion . I am rather of opinion that difference of sects in a country , with honest and just treatment , tends to greater activity , greater exertion and progress ; but difference of sects , where the Government has held up one sect as its favourite Church , through which it distributes its patronage , and uses it only to tie that country , then , I say , that hardly anything can be conceived more unfortunate than that there should be a difference of religious opinion and a difference of Churches

    in such a country . ( Loud cheers . ) Now , what are tho results ? I assume that every man here is as honestly anxious for the good of Ireland as I am , who am not an Irishman , and there is no reason to doubt but that the multitude who honestly differ from us are equally anxious as we are for the good of the country . But let us , I say , look at the results . It is 300 years since you had a Parliamentary Church Establishment in Ireland . What were its objects ? To conquer Ireland by , or to prevent the diffusion of the Catholic religion ; or , further , to convert the followers of the Catholic Church to some form of Protestantism . Has it succeeded in any of those objects ? ( Cries of ' , no . ' ) Is there at this moment , through the population of Ireland generally , a feeling of affection to the

    Imperial Government . ? ( No , no . ) Is there a common interest felt with England ? Is there not , on the contrary , lurking in the minds of hundreds and thousands of your people , such a feeling as ought never to exist , and I believe never would exist in any well-governed country ? So far from our being united under its system , there are many men in this room who recollect a most formidable rebellion , which but for an accident might have had very serious results ; and all of us can recollect those insurrections and incitements to insurrection which arc discreditable to a Government , even though they may not bo formidable to its power . ( Hear , hoar . ) And what bad the Established Church done ? According to the best data , it appears that tho proportion of Catholics in Ireland to

    Protestants was , probably , before the famine , greater than almost at any period for the lust 200 years ; and probably at this moment it is about as groat as it over has been during the whole of that period . ( Hear , hoar . ) Tho peoplo of England are terrified at the approaches of the Church of Homo . ( Hear , hear . ) You hoard the uproar that , was made last winter about it . You saw the Imperial Parliament for a whole session busy in doing that which tlioy knew would end in nothing . ( 11 car , hear . ) You have seen men from platforms vituperating Mio people of Ireland ; and the most powerful organs of tho press from week to week heaping insult of every kind upon tbo

    religion of six or seven millions of the pooplo of tbo United Kingdom . ( Hear , and cheers . ) Well , they bad hail a Church established for three hundred years , with Imlf-alnillion per annum , for it . waa hulf-a-millioii not . long ago ; it still bore tho same proportion to the population that , it did now ; and in England ( . hoy have bad an Established Church , with ton times more revenue , for flic noIo purpose , as they said , of being a bulwark against fho Church of Rome . Yet , notwithstanding all this , they seemod moro afraid , in 18 f > 2 , of that , same Church limn ever they were . " ( Cheers . )

    His remedy ( rather obscurely hinted at , by ( . ho way , and rut her implied than stilled ) was voluntaryism , anil the fullest religious liberty , Uie inosl , complete equality , anil the tuioourngomenl , of tf O ()( 1 fooling in religious irml . ters among men . Turning (<> political topics , bo defended l . he character of Irish representatives ( from Mr . Hume ' s charges V \ and Irish priests : — " When I was asked to Miis great banquet , reference was made to the par ! , I bad taken in and out of Parliament . I am ono of tboso , sensible of Mm fact , I bat , whatever has Iiooh done within ( . ho last , thirty years within tho imperial . Purliiimonf , thr ihwhun , it . always bad tho support of the majority of tho Irish representatives ; and I now bolievo that , if thoro is to bo anything done in tbo way vli liberal progress iu tho next ruxliauaont it would

    October 9, 1852.] The Leader. * 959

    October 9 , 1852 . ] THE LEADER . * 959

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), Oct. 9, 1852, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_09101852/page/3/