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Leader (1850-1860), 7th July 1860, Edition 2 of 2, Page 19

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    • July 7, I860 j The Saturday Analyst and ...

      July 7, I860 j The Saturday Analyst and ...

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      Beport Gjt The Privileges Of The House O...

      Lordships would not meddle with it—no , not so much as to give advice ; yet after you were pleased to declare that , you have voted ixi-your Lordships' House that it was most necessary and fit that matter of supply should have precedency of all other business ; and this being done , your Lordships would freely join with them in all things concerning matter of religion , propriety of goods , and liberty of Parliament . " On . the same day the Lords resolved by the major part of the votes thus . —" That , by their Lordships first voting ( we are of opinion that the matter of His Majesty ' s supply should have

      precedency , and be resolved of , before any other matter whatsoever ) , was no breach of the privileges of the House of Commons . " The address of Mr . JEym is preserved in the journals , and will be found in the Appendix ; and the same committee that had been directed to prepare the address , was , on the 2 d of May , ordered " to take into consideration the privileges mentioned in the last conference with the Lords , and to view such records as might any way concern the same , and to present the same to the judgment of the House , to consider what course to take for the preservation of the same

      privileges . " It does not appear from the journals of either House that anything further was done in the matter , Parliament having been dissolved on the 5 th of May . VI . The practice which had been settled with reference to the preamble in the year 1628 was confirmed at the Restoration . On that occasion the Commons took the earliest opportunity of asserting their privilege ; for on the 21 st of July , 1660 , when Sir Heneage Finch , afterwards Lord Chancellor Nottingham , reported a Bill for continuance of the customs of tonnage and poundage , it was resolved that the first clause in this Bill be thus amended—^ -namely , " The Commons assembled do give and grant to your Majesty the subsidies hereafter following , most humbly praying your Majesty that it may be enacted , " etc . This Bill , having been read a third time , was carried to the Lords , and Mr . Anhesley was directed "to

      desire the Lords that , it being a Bill concerning money , it be sent back to the House when the Lords have passed it . " . As soon as it had passed the Lords' House ^ it appears , from their journals , that a message was sent to the Commons " to deliver the Bill to them which their Lordships had passed ;' ¦ and it further appears from the same journals that the Commons , by their Speaker , presented it to the King . From that time to this the practice with regard to Bills of Supply has been in conformity witii-jthis precedent ^ The Commons alone are stated in the preamble to make the jgrant . When the Bill has passed theit House , the-Coniinofts desire the cpncurrencejof the Lords ; when it has passed the Lords a message is sent to the Commoris , stating that the Lords hSve agreed to it . The Bill is afterwiirds returned to the Commons , and when the Commons are snmnioned ~ to attend-the Queen or the Lords Commissioners , the Speaker presents it for the Royal assent . to

      It is not unworthy of remark that the practice with regard Bills of Supply as thus established is identical with the provisions of the Indemnity Ordinance in 1407 , as explained by the Attorney-General in the precedent of 1671 . " And as for the case of 9 Henry IV ., " he therein says , " called the indemnity of the Lords and Commons , these things are evidently proved by it : — " First , that it was a grievance to the Commons and a breach of their liberties to demand a committee to confer with about aids ; 4 Secoiidly , that the Lords ought to consider by themselves , and —_ -thejCoinmons ^ by ^ themsel . ves * apar-t- ^_——— - — - ~ ———¦ , ¦ . , . ,,.,. " Thir lly , that no report shall be made to the King- of what the Commons have granted and the Lords assented to till the matter be perfected ; so that a plain declaration is made , that the Commons grant , an 1 the Lords assent . ht to be the

      "And , fourthly , that the gift oug presented by Speaker of the Commons . " Bills of Supplt , and Ta . x Bills . Practice of the Commons where the Lords Amend . VII . In the 17 th century there are a few instances where the Lords have amended Bills of Supply and the Commons have agreed to such amendments . It is impossible in all cases to ascertain at this distance of time the exact nature of such amendments . In some , the amendments were made for the purpose of preserving to the Peers the ancient custom of assessing themselves by commissioners of their own ; in others , the amendments were made for the correction of clerical errors , or in furtherance of the intent and object of the Bill ; and in one or two cases the Commons agreed on special grounds , such as " the present necessity cast upon them by the shortness of the session . " With these exceptions , it appears the exclusive

      from the journals that this House has reserved to itself power over such Bills by not allowing * any alterations of a substantial character to be made in them . Thus , in the great precedent of the 18 th of April , 1671 , where the reasons drawn up by the Attorney-General , and . adopted by the House , are stated so clearly that we have inserted them at length in the Appendix—amendments and clauses wero sent from the Lords in a Bill for an imposition on foreign commodities . On that Bill being sent back to the Commons , this House resolved , nemine oontradicente , That in all aids given to the King by the Commons , the rate or tax ought not to be ' alteredbythetords ;* ' * and on the ~ third conference witlr the Lords , ; held and reported to the House , it was resolved —>¦ " That the Lords' reasons , and the answer of this House , be entered in the Journal of this House , which are as followeth , viz .: — 11 Thursday , April 20 . " This conference was desired by their Lordships , upon the

      subjeot-matter of the last conference , concerning the Bill for Impositions on Merchandise , etc ., wherein the Commons communicated to he Lords , as their resolution , that there is a fundamental right in

      that House alone , in Bills of Rates and Impositions on Merchandise , as to the matter , the measure , and the time . " And , though their Lordships had neither reason nor precedent offered by the Commons to back that resolution ; but were told that this was a right so fundamentally settled in the Commons , that they could not give reasons for it , for that would be a weakening of the Commons' Right arid Privilege ; : " ¦ ' ! " Yet the Lords , in Parliament , upon full consideration thereof , and of that whole conference , are come to this resolution , nemin & coritradicente : ¦ ' ¦

      " That the power exercised by the House of Peers , in making the Amendments and Abatements in the Bill intituled 'An Act for an additional Imposition on several Foreign Commodities andjfor Encouragement of several Commodities and Manufactures of this Kingdom , ' both as to the Matter , Measure , and Time , concerning the Rates and Impositions on Merchandise , is a fundamental , inherent , and undoubted right of the House of Peers , from which they cannot depart . " Then follow the Lords' reasons , with the Commons' answer , which deserve special consideration . On the 22 d of April it was unanimously

      resolved" That the thanks of the House be returned to Mr . Attorney-General for his great pains and care in preparing and drawing up the reasons delivered to the Lords , in answer to their reasons , which was by . him performed to the great satisfaction of this House , in vindication of their privilege and just and undoubted right of the Commons of England . " And Mr . Speaker did accordingly deliver the thanks of the House to Mr . Attorney-General . " Parliament was prorogued the same day till the 16 th of April , 1672 . VIII . Even where the amendment is for the abatement of a duty , or mex'ely a change in the mode of collecting it , the Commons have still insisted on their privilege .

      Thus , on the 24 th of July , 1089 , the Lords sent down amendments to a Bill for collecting the duty upon coffee , tea , arid chocolate . In those amendments certain drawbacks appear t <> have been allowed upon the exportation of those commodities . This House disagreed to them , nemine contradicente ; and they gave as part of'their reasons that " they had always taken it for their undoubted privilege ( of which they have ever been jealous end tender ) , that in all aids given to the King by the Commons , the rate or tax ought not to be in any way altered bythe" Lords , " And they add , " As to the proviso which your Lordships have sent to the Commons , the Commons do disagree to it , and for thaFdo refer to their first reason ; the proviso being an alteration and lessening of the grant made by the Commons . " To this the Lords reply that they l > are much surprised at the assertion of the Commons , that , in all aids irliun tn + hs Tfincr hv thft finmniniis . that rate or tax ou « rht not to iven to the King by the Commonsthat rate or tax ought not to

      g , be in ~ any way altered by the Lords , since they conceive it hath always been their undoubted right , in ca . se of any aids give" toi the 'King , to lessen the rate or tax granted by theCommons . " In the result ^ the Commons adhered-to-, their former opinion , and negatived the amendments nemine contradicente . Thesame rule has been also applied not only where the charge is in any way altered . but also where the Lords have endeavoured to change the mode of collecting- it . Thus , on the 17 th of July , 1692 , when JheJUojcdsjajnejided ^ J ^ taxes to which the Peers were liable should be received by collectors to be nominated by themselves , the Commons disagreed to such an amendment , stating as their reasons that the right " of granting supplies to the Crown is in the Commons , alone as an essential part of their constitution ; and the limitation of all such grants , as to the matter , manner , measure , and time , is only in them , which is

      so well known to be fundamentally settled in them that to give reasons for it has been esteemed by our ancestors to be a weakening of that right . Arid the clause sent down by your Lordships is a manifest invasion thereof . " To this the Lords reply , " They con--ceive that the making of amendments and abatement of rates in Bills of Supply sent up from the House of Commons is a fundamental , inherent , and undoubted right of tlie House of Peers , from which their Lordships can never depart . They have , therefore , thought themselves obliged to assert it upon this occuaion . But , considering that a difference between the two Houses upon this Bill may create such delays in the passing of it as would be of the most fatal consequence in the present conjuncture , the Lords have not thought convenient at this time to insist upon their provisoes . ' * It would be needless to quote all the precedents where the Lords

      have interfered by amending- Supply or Tax Bills . The year 1678 furnishes , as shown by the Journals of the House of Commons , a memorable resolution of the House on the " Rights of the Commons , in granting of money . " It is a report of a committee appointed from the members who had managed the Conference on a " Supply Bill for Disbanding the Forces , " which hud been returned with some amendments . They were ordered to " prepare and draw up a State of tlie Rights of the Commons in granting of money . '" This resolution , thus prepared , was agreed to by the House , and is as follows : — " That all aids and : supplies"to-His' ~ Majesty ; are'the sole gift of the Commons ; and all Bills for the granting of . any such aids and supplies ought to begin with the Commons ; and that it is the undoubted and sole right of the Commons to direct , limit , and aDooint in such Bill * the ends , fourposes , considerations ; conditions , to

      limitations , and qualifications of such grants , which ought not oe changed or altered by the House of Lords . " ( For other precedents enforcing this rule , see App . No . 34 , . 41 , 44 , 45 . ) .... anan IX . The Commons have so steadily adhered to this rule that even

      July 7, I860 J The Saturday Analyst And ...

      July 7 , I 860 j The Saturday Analyst and Leader . 643

  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), July 7, 1860, page 19, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_07071860/page/19/