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    August 5, 1854.] THE LEADER. 723

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    ¦^T Ijbliament Of The Week. Anight In Su...

    dilapidated state , and unless the committee were willing to see one of the finest statues in the metropolis fall to pieces , they should agree to the vote . Mr . Wise thought the repairs might wait . ( Laug hter . * ) Their associations in connexion with Charles I . were not of a character which should make them especially anxious to restore his statue . He was more celebrated for his encroachments on public rights and the violation of national liberties than for anything else . Ho admitted that as a work of art the statue vraa valuable ; it was one of Le Sceur ' s best . Mr . Disraeli was surprised that the hon . gentleman , shallow as might he his constitutional prejudices , did not support the vote as a lover of the fine arts . The vote was then agreed to .

    On the-proposal to grant 13 , 000 £ to defray the cost of collecting agricultural statistics , Mr . Gakuwhll , in reply to Lord W . Graham , enumerated the counties from which statistics had been obtained , including Norfolk , Suffolk , Hants , Wilts , Berks , the West Riding of Yorkshire , and two or three others . Mr . Cayle y wished to lenow why the process of collection had not been more widely extended . Mr . CAnowELL said , when the experiment was first tried great difficulty was found in collecting information . The vote was then put , 13 , 390 / -, for the works at Kingatown Harbour . Mr . W . WirXTAMS inquired if this wiis to be a final vote ? The expenditure on this harbour had b-een astounding . Mr . Wilsoij was sorry to say that this was not a' final vete , nor was it likely that at present there would be a final vote .

    Mr . Wilt-iams urged that there ought to be an estimate of the whole amount required . The vote was then agreed to . On the next vote , M > , 8897-, for raising an office for the Duchy of Cornwall in PhnlLco , Sir W . Molksworth said , when the other night he moved the second reading of a bill authorising the building of ' an office for the Duchy of Cornwall , lie promised that in supply he would state the exact object of the vote . It was intended to defray the expense of raising a new office for the Duchy of Cornwall in place of the old one in Somersethouse . Mr . . W ^ Wn-LiA-ws suggested that the Duchy of Cornwall office should be removed to the house formerly occupied by the Irish office . He eomylnined that a sum of 467 , 000 k , including 130 , 000 / - from the commissioners of the Great Exhibition , luid been appropriated for the purchase , of land , and the objects for which , it was required had never been stated .

    Mr . Disraeli explained that the complaint which the hon . member had made with regard to the voting of nearly half a million sterling for the purchase of land for public buildings , and yet that accommodation , could . not be found for the officers of the Duchy of Cornwall , was unfounded , because a munificent sum . of 150 , 000 ? . had been given by the commissioners of the Great Exhibition ,, and a sum of 200 , 000 ? . had been voted for the purchase of land at Kensington , and a further sum of 150 , 000 / . for the purchase of Ijurlington-house , yet it was not merely for the building of public offices that these sums were voted for the purchase of land . It was impossible to give an equivalent to the Duchy of Cornwall for the loss of their offices , and the country was bound to find the Duchy u proper place for the transaction of its business in return for those they gave up for the public convenience .

    Mr . W . WrT-T-TAMs staled that what lie said was , no explanation was given of tho objects for which the 4 G 7 , 0 OQ / ., including the loO , 000 / . given by tho commissioners of the Grunt Exhibition , had been expended . Mr . Wise observed that the act of 1775 , which gave a vested interest tp the Duke of Cornwall in the offices in Somerset-house , and which charged 100 , 000 / - out of the revenues for that purpose , was so contrary to Parliamentary usage that a subsequent act repealed it ; and he doubted , therefore , whether tho Duchy really possessed any vested interest in thoso ofiicos . Then there was no guarantee that the expenditure contemplated in tins voto would not bo exceeded . ( " Ycsy t / tera vs . " ) He was glud to hoar that tho estimate was not to be exceeded .

    lho Marquis of Ciiandos defended the vote , and denied that tho Duchy of Cornwall were asking for any money for their own accommodation . This grunt was required not for their convenience , but for tho public convenience . Mr . Kiwi ) AM \ , also supported tho vote . Mr . Haiu'IKi-o tliouglit somo further explanation was necessary an to tho disposal of thesu sites , which ought to Le appropriated to Government buildings . Mr . Dis « AKt , i was porieetly ready lo admit , as lio had admitted beforo , that lio was tho party who had renowod tho lenso of Montnguc-hou . sc , and that ho alone was tho person responsible for it . Tlmt leuso was renowod to a distinguishod noblomim , who was u niembor of ncithor tho been uninfluenced by pnrty fueling in the slightest degree . 15 ut ho believed very iMjuilnblo clainut luul boon shown to exist for the vonownl oi tho lcaso mid for milking this cuso an oxcoption to tho rule he lmd laid down in reference to tho renewal of tho lenses of crown property in finch aUuutlona .

    Tho Ouamoicixor ol ' tlic Knoiiicqu i'H : Tho him . geiitIonian ( Mr . I-fadliuld ) having romiiuled him thai ; ho had given aomotliing like n plodgo to tho IIouhu in connexion with this subject , considered that ho owed a word w two of ex | iluna-1 ion . Whon ho stated Unit hi * rmiolluotiou dillWoU Irmn ilmt of tho right hon . Kcntlowan , but that tho ppors relating to thetraiiHnolion wunt at tho Trcntmry , and ho would oxiuiiino them , ho had thu facts pi-otty dourly in hi . s mind , Hit , uiu not Hunk It , dtlmr w ' imo or just , nucing that lho atliiir iiaa tauon pluco many moiitlm ago , tumxmlc positively without , ntwm to tho UucunwuiU \ l . o rlglit lion , gentleman iikI , howovur , rendered any btulumuiiL of lib uimoc « Wh « ry by , x 1 ? , i" r \ ' ° i 5 « vo uh « other « vunin aud hIUt that nf , I ' l" » "' ought It hardly nwmmry to lay tho u . morrj I 1 , " " , ' l" ; wover , tl . o Fion . roiiUviiuui wished licm £ , i ' . Allllou e ' j ho coumdomlihut an error in judg-Mir-Trs ^ t ^^^

    that nothing that had occurred gave the slightest justification that there bad been anything , more than aa error in judgment . The vote was then agreed to . On the vote of 100 , 000 / . for civil contingencies , Mr . Williams said that many items paid under this head in the course of last year were very objectionable . Be would not trouble the committee with , all of these objectionable matters , bat only pick out some of the worst . He found that several amounts were set down for progresses made by West Indian bishops round their dioceses ; he could not understand why these bishops did not pay the expense of these tours themselves . Again , for the clothing of the

    trumpeters of the Guards a sum of 1567 ? . was put down . That amount ought to have been in the army estimates , and then there would have been an opportunity of objecting to it . Another item was the usual payment to Lord Cranworth on his appointment as Lord Chancellor , 1843 ? . Why this was paid he ( Mr . Williams ) could not conceive . A similar item was 2000 / . to Earl St . Germans , on his appointment as Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland , and this was as inexplicable as the payment of Lord Cranworth . To the solicitors of the Attorney-General , on account of charity informations , no less a sum than 4 O 00 / . was paid last year . He did not think this cost ought to fall upon the country .

    Mr . A . Pellatt certainly thought that some explanation was due to the committee with regard to the payment made to colonial bishops . Mr . Wilson said that the diocese & of the bishops mentioned by the lion , member for Lambeth consisted of various islands to which it was necessary that visits sliould be made ^ These visits were performed in her Majesty ' s shipsy and the sums charged were only for the expenses of the keep of the bishops during their journeys . He could only say that with regard to the whole of these charges the greatest care had been taJiento economise them , and the greatest proof of that would bo found in the fnc . t , that they were 30 , OUO £ less than they were a few years ago . Mr . A . Pellatt moved as an amendment that the sum be reduced by 371 L Mr . Murrough seconded the amendment . Mr . "Williams said it was useless to seek t » reduce the vote by so small a sum , because Government took a margin of something like 30 , 000 ? . more thaa they required .

    Mr . Maguire said the course of the hon . member for Lambeth was most unsatisfactory . He regarded that hon . member not as a Hume , but as the Smollett of reform . ( Lawjhter . ) He criticised various sniall items , but proposed nothing ; and , so far as the people w « re concerned , lie might as well have never been in the House . ( Oh , oh , and laughter . * ) As the hon . gentleman was so fond of small items , he wondered that he had not taken exception to the 15 ? . for lemonade , & c , to the Governor of New Zealand , and 18 ? . for the support of a negro- 'hoy . ( Loud laughter . ) The fact was , that the hon . gentleman made nothing but little amiable complaints , which were answered from the Treasury bench with equal amiability : and so the matter ended . And yet , when any Irish question came forward , the hon . gentleman manifested the greatest impatience , in order that he might the sooner disport himself in those little mutters . ( Laughter . * ) Mr . W . Williams assured the hon . gentleman that any

    opinions which he might entertain or' his parliamentary conduct , he regarded with the utmost indifference . ( Laughter . ) The hon . gentleman ( Mr . Mtiguire ) had chosen for his mission to " oppose the Government , " ' as be . called it . ( Luvyhter . ) Ho ( Mr . Williams ) too , had opposed the Government , and many times divided against them , and although he luul never ye , t succeeded in carrying a division —( loudlaughter )—he had pointed out many excessive items in the expenditure , and in a number of cases he had been successful in securing tlieir correction . If the hon . gentleman ( Mr . Pellatt ) divided , he would add to the items to be reduced , tho T 200 ? . for the clergy of Scotland , and the stim allowed to tho Cathedral commission- ( Ok , and laughter . ) Mr . Hadkikld defended Mr . Williams , and protested against sums being voted from tho imperial purse for tho sustcnUition of colonial bishops , who ought to be paid by the colonies themselves .

    1 ho House w ; us then cleared for a . division , but did not divide , : is the motion was withdrawn , and tho vote agreed to . On tlio motion that a sum of l ) Ui ) 8 f . be voted for the militia in Great Britain and Ireland , Mr . Williams objected to the voto , and complained of tho imrnen . so amount o ( military force which tho country was now oallud upon to keep up , whou really tho war in which they were engaged was not of a imtnru to require it . Tho war was not similar to tho groat French war iu which tho country had been engaged , and ho therefore thought that tho country ought not to . bo burdened with , such an enormous military force as 124 , 7-10 men it had now to pay .

    Colonol SiuTiiourisvmfl not surprised at th « objections of the hon , member for Lain both , who knew nothing of soldiering , and who , in his ( Oolonol ( Sibthorpe ' s ) opinion , would not adorn oven " tho awkward squad . " Ho ( Colonel Sibthorno ) could not but ; express his thanks to fcho noblo lord ( Lord J . KuhsqII ) and to tdo Government generally for tho courso they had tnkon in relation to bho war hi which tho country was now ongacod ; and whilq ho thunkoil Mr . WiUiuum for sorvicos runuuroil by him in exposing jobs , he inu . tt disagree with him in thi .-t matter , and say that ho ( Colonol Sibthorpo ) would support tho Government to tho laot in tho wat in which tho country was now ungagoil . Colonel

    DijNNic wisluid to know IVoin tho right lion , gentleman tho yi . crotary at War whotlior any clumgo had boon doturmined upon in tho olothing of tho army . Mr . tiiDNicv HicHUKur said that tho supply of clothing was always a yonr In advance , and until 186 ( 1 thoro would not prolmbly bo any cliango , and what tho chango might bo ho couUlnot May . H « hud hud npooiinens of cloth submitted to him , and ho might , utato tlma much to lho hon . and ty dlanL member , that tho clothing of tho army would iu iuluro be of a Huporior ( uialtty to wlmt it luul boon . Tho voto waa then ngreod to . Un tlin motion that n hum of 10 , 000 ? . bo grunted for retired full pay to officers for long ajul meritorious ) ai'rviooa . aoinu dbcuttbion onsutid , ia wh ' ioh < Jvlonol Linuauv wnd

    Colonel Dunne took part , as to the mode of payment and regulations , and in the course of which , Mr . Newdegate complained that general officers would be subjected to loss by the change \ diich proposed to take the clothing of regiments out of their hands . Mr . Sidney Herbert , in answer to Mr . Newdegate , said he thought the change would be uot only economical as related to the public , but advantageous to the service and the officers who had the clothing of the regiments . TLe custom was to issue a sum of money to those officers , and they commonly gave a carte Blanche for the clothing of the men of their regiments to some party , and made very little stipulation as to price . He very much doubted that such a system could have been carried on so long ia any other country in the world with so little malversation . The vote , after a few words by Mr . WiLLrAMS * was agreed to . The House resumed . IRISH INDTTSTEY . On going inlo sxrpply on Monday , Mr . F . Lucas directed the attention of the House to the propriety of instituting an inquiry-inlo the best means of promoting Irish manufacturing industry by training or apprenticeship schools , and other similar establishments . The honourable member said that it was a fatal mistake to suppose that Ireland was in the extremely prosperous state in which it had latteily been represented by some honcrurable members . He could not but regard the excessive emigrat ion which was going on as a direct loss to the conBtacy r for that emigration \ v «& not so much owing to the existence of distress in Ireland as to funds sent bj peusons wlio ha & gone to . America to . their relatives at home ; . Something should be attempted to arrest this depopulation ; but it could only

    be done by producing , as the Ernigratioa" Commissionersrecommended , a marked improvement , in the social and industrial condition of the population . . They had sought to improve the condition , of the agricultural classes by laws , to improve the relations : of landlord and tenant , but hitnerto without effect ; and from what had fallen from the- ' present government there seamed to be no liope of anything being effected in this way . It was therefore natural to look to some other course , especially as the suggestions lie bad to ; offer would raise no hostile feelings in Ireland , but would benefit all classes alike , and would benefit England and Ireland alike . His proposition was that the Legislature sliould afford direct facilities for the establishment of manufactures . He based this proposal on no theory of his own , but on what had been done in a neighbouring kingdom . All

    he asked was that the Legislature would enable the people of Ireland to do out of their own funds what had been done with the greatest success in Belgium . He anticipated considerable opposition , from the novelty of his proposal .- The great objection would be , that for the state to interfere in the establishment of manufactures would be contrary to the principles of free trade . This he denied . He took a great distinction between those laws and rules which were intended to protect an existing trade and those which might be necessary for the establishment of such a trade , " where none such hud previously existed . His proposal was , not for assistance from the state , bat from some local machinery , where there was a disposition on the part of the local authorities to lend their assistance . The Government would not object to this ; for in the present session large sums had been voted for

    normal schools , not simply for the purposes of education , but to train persons for employment in manufactories , and in establishments -where the arts of design wero in request . Of lato years all governments had recognised the necessity of doing this , in order that we might bo able to compete with foreign manufacturers . Thus , tho principle had beensanctioned that it was desirable to do something to foster and encourage the establishment of manufactures . This wns the whole question ; and no objection could bo taken to his proposal on the ground that it sinnod against principle . The honourable member went into a number of statistics to show tho success of the experiment in Belgium , which , he said , ho took from tho official returns published by the Belgian Government , iuhI which , ho contended , proved beyond all doubt that the experiment was attended by a complete social revolution that conferred lusting , benefits upon tho people , and gave an immense stimulus to private enterprise . These

    statistics wcro woll worbh tho attention of tho Hoiiso , because they were the results of an experiment which had been in operation in a neighbouring country similarly situated during tho last few years . Tho oxperimont had ruisod the people , from a state ot pauperism to ivstato of aflluenco . And what did the House suppose had been tho expanse to Belgium , of trying this glorious experiment ? Why only i } 2 , QO 0 l , and this , was tho sort of experiment ho was asking tho House to give somo of tlio localities of Ircluml tho power of lusting . Ho had no intention of submitting any resolution upon tho subject to the Houso ; all that he wantod to do waa to call attention to it , inul having dono that , ho hoped It would not bo lost sight of . TIiq experiment lie wished to havo tried might bo tested under the superintendence of aOovi'mnrumb olliciul , and ho commended it moaL soriou ^ ly to the attention of tlio nublo lord llw l ' rowideut of tho Council , who had evinced a strong and sincere , ulajjoailiou . to promote tlio interest of Ireland .

    Lord J . Kussitui . treated tho pito-position in a hotter spirit than usual . Ho should not liku to oiler any opinion aw t <> what had boon « lono in Holgium until ho waa better inhmntifl , upon tho dotnilii of tho experiment ; but ho could Mlpfj ) afi onco that there was a wide dilli-ronco biMwoim a » l » to iiHwcl-j ing instruction in tho arts of mmiufiiotiuva , aiuHjwimwrv ' , taking a luiinufmituring ontorpriuo with a view to |) cc « nlt « y .-.. ; , nrolit . Instruction iu manufactures Imd and coiilfl . U « r & * i \ . ' under tho suiiorlntundonco of ( Jovonimuut , but tho > ' » « WftU ;• ' viisl diatinctioii bolwoon giving llml liwtruotiDU lor lyP Mjf ^ ,,. ; \ ofijroinotiiii ! mimu / iictuinigart , ami uiulortalcmt ; tiU ^ Wl' ^' , . vlow to a roinuiiitnitivo nr . i / lt . 'I'lio purauit oi proilL B » W n lo loft outin-ly to liulivldiuil i-ntorprlso , and » houl < Hierttf iff . ¦ possible bo thwurtcd by Htiito conmoUtion . lho iiial 1 <^< Sc ^; ^ which 11 hi honourable momber had quoted in nupport oi n !» * . lii-Dpoaltiini , if llioy worn worth anything , did not bo inuoli provu tin * oxiwdioiwy of a etato untorlng upon ooinmoix ; i «) l ontcmriso a » tho ^ jront udviuit . igo which tho rooognitiou of

    August 5, 1854.] The Leader. 723

    August 5 , 1854 . ] THE LEADER . 723

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), Aug. 5, 1854, page 3, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse-os.kdl.kcl.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/cld_05081854/page/3/